Hit reset, trade Russ.

[TwistedHusky]

Is the QB toxic>?

Or just upset about completely unacceptable circumstances that were solvable but that our aging HC steadfastly refused to fix or in some cases even address?

Do you honestly believe that Russ, who carried this team to win after win, does not have a right to be disgruntled that the HC is saddling him with having to win games despite missing giant pieces of what makes teams win?

Shouldn't the QB be upset that his HC is more an impediment to winning than a contributor?

Is that toxic or just rightful outrage, especially when the guy that is contributing the most to the problem is also in change of all personnel decisions?

Maybe the QB is right.

It was the lack of focus on protecting the QB that got our QB injured in the first place. Every resource has been piled into the worst defense ever, meanwhile low cost FAs and castoffs all over the line and little draft capital used to address it.

When we DO get draft picks that work out for OL we let them walk. After years of building and training them up (see Britt)

But lets just keep spending on defensive FAs to build our stellar worst in the history of time and space NFL Defense.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Maybe the QB is right.

It was the lack of focus on protecting the QB that got our QB injured in the first place. Every resource has been piled into the worst defense ever, meanwhile low cost FAs and castoffs all over the line and little draft capital used to address it.

When we DO get draft picks that work out for OL we let them walk. After years of building and training them up (see Britt)

But lets just keep spending on defensive FAs to build our stellar worst in the history of time and space NFL Defense.

While I can't absolve Pete from the lion's share of the blame here, I'm also not absolving Russell for the offense not living up to it's potential.

- trade for Brown, Jackson and the drafting of Lewis
- trading for Graham, and now Everett
- drafting of DK, and now Eskridge
- hiring of Waldron

All to try to appease Russell and help the offense become more dynamic, and as we saw last night when Geno went in and our offense actually looked like a real NFL offense, maybe.............. just maybe Russell needs to be held responsible for some of the offensive dysfunction.

I'm not saying trade Russell, but I'm also not letting him off the hook and just blaming Pete for what we're seeing here.

 

[FloridaSeahawk18]

I actually agree and I love Russ and what he has done for this team. The reality is this team has enormous holes at virtually all positions but QB thanks to terrible trades (J Graham, J Adams, etc) and inept drafting (Penny, Ifedi, etc etc). To top it off we have no 1st next year which makes it hard to even fix this mess in the short-term without a trade like this for draft capital. Does anyone really think resigning Russ to another jaw-dropping max contract in a few years is going to help this team rebuild? We need to rebuild our defense again with a game manager quarterback and draft a rookie qb at some point. its TIME.

 

[hgwellz12]

Nah.

 

[TwistedHusky]

That is true Largent.

But in the past few years, if you look at the investment vs return for both Offense and Defense - you will see that the Defense was regularly invested in (especially draft capital) and did not come close to producing.

If you are the QB you have to realize that the guy making the decisions is not helping you. Even when he 'helps' you with the moves you shared. (Getting Graham and attempting to use him as a blocking TE is a great example)

 

[hgwellz12]

That is true Largent.

But in the past few years, if you look at the investment vs return for both Offense and Defense - you will see that the Defense was regularly invested in (especially draft capital) and did not come close to producing.

If you are the QB you have to realize that the guy making the decisions is not helping you. Even when he 'helps' you with the moves you shared. (Getting Graham and attempting to use him as a blocking TE is a great example)

Facts.

If Russ has to go, then Pete and his homeboy Kenny need to GOOOOO. Regardless what happens with Russ, I have seen enough of their bullshit.

 

[Natethegreat]

Pete has a what the heck lets give it a try attitude with these trades and its killing us. Harvin (trouble maker everywhere he had been), Graham (did not fit our offense at all), Jamal (doesn't fit our D and was also a malcontent pushing his way out), Sheldon (talented but a locker room problem and malcontent). None of these trades have worked out and where overpays at the time they were made.
Our poor drafting is partly compounded because of these continual poor team building decisions. Throwing away draft picks for malcontents and misfits is bad team building. It very much feels as if Pete flies by the seat of his pants with these decisions. Make no mistake these decisions are coming from Pete. He runs this team. John Schneider takes his lead from Pete not the other way around.
To top it all off picking Penny and L.J. Collier have been epic mistakes. It was obvious from the moment they were picked at well. They had no business being picked in the first round NONE!

 

[Tical21]

We missed our window. We aren't getting 3 firsts anymore. Russ has been solved.

 

[olyfan63]

We missed our window. We aren't getting 3 firsts anymore. Russ has been solved.

It was a breath of fresh air to see Geno come in and throw slants over the middle, hit TEs multiple times. I'm sure Dissly loved having a few balls thrown his way. Then seeing Hawks O go up-tempo with Geno on his first drive--that was truly a delight to see!

It was like, WTF, that's 3 or 4 passes caught by TEs within a couple drives! And the last slant over the middle I recall Russ throwing was to Josh Gordon for a 3rd down conversion! (I'm sure there have been other since, just that one was memorable to me)

Was Geno hititng these throws because they were open, because opposing D's know Russell will overlook them? It certainly does seem like Russell has been "figured out", at least on 3rd down. 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4, feels like Russell's kryptonite since mid-last-year.

I'm still holding out hope that Waldron can "fix" Russell and the "hero ball" preoccupation problem. I've given up hope of KNJ fixing our D, so we'll need to win by outscoring our opponents.

At this point, I'd rather see Pete & KNJ go than Russell. Keep Russell, force-retire Pete.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

Keep Russ, move on from Pete and co. I do not want to be the Browns or Jets continually trying to find a decent QB. Russ may not be perfect but he is one of the best QBs in football. You don't trade that away you build around it.

Why would Russ want to stay for a rebuild? Even for just the last year of his contract? If a divorce is all but guaranteed, why keep an asset that loses value for both sides if he stays the season? Even a forced trade will net more results than a comp pick if we let him walk for nothing. Getting rid of Pete and building around Russ is the ideal situation, but based on the way this past offseason played out I just don't see that as an option. New coach, veteran QB holding down a spot while the future starter is searched for is likely the one way to reboot. I'd be ecstatic if Russ stayed as it would keep the team competitive while also attracting the best possible coaching candidate but I just cannot see Russ' camp being down with that. Just like with all the defensive superstars, the time has passed for salvaging the relationship.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

That is true Largent.

But in the past few years, if you look at the investment vs return for both Offense and Defense - you will see that the Defense was regularly invested in (especially draft capital) and did not come close to producing.

If you are the QB you have to realize that the guy making the decisions is not helping you. Even when he 'helps' you with the moves you shared. (Getting Graham and attempting to use him as a blocking TE is a great example)

To me it's all about identity.

This team hasn't had an identity on either side of the ball since the LOB broke up and Lynch left.

Since then our identity's been hey Russell run around and make plays and let's hope you make enough for us to win.

So for this I blame Pete and John. If they wanted to remain a run first, pound the ball and play lights out defense? Then they should have traded Russell away, found a Tannehill or middle of the road QB to game manage and poured all the team's cap into this philosophy by getting nasty run grating O-lineman and keeping 75% of the cap on the defensive side of the ball.

What's the old MLB saying? You never want to be stuck in the middle. Either you're spending or rebuilding, there's no in between.

That's where we've been stuck the past 6-7 years, in between with no identity.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

We missed our window. We aren't getting 3 firsts anymore. Russ has been solved.

It was a breath of fresh air to see Geno come in and throw slants over the middle, hit TEs multiple times. I'm sure Dissly loved having a few balls thrown his way. Then seeing Hawks O go up-tempo with Geno on his first drive--that was truly a delight to see!

It was like, WTF, that's 3 or 4 passes caught by TEs within a couple drives! And the last slant over the middle I recall Russ throwing was to Josh Gordon for a 3rd down conversion! (I'm sure there have been other since, just that one was memorable to me)

Was Geno hititng these throws because they were open, because opposing D's know Russell will overlook them? It certainly does seem like Russell has been "figured out", at least on 3rd down. 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4, feels like Russell's kryptonite since mid-last-year.

I'm still holding out hope that Waldron can "fix" Russell and the "hero ball" preoccupation problem. I've given up hope of KNJ fixing our D, so we'll need to win by outscoring our opponents.

At this point, I'd rather see Pete & KNJ go than Russell. Keep Russell, force-retire Pete.

There was at least one, if not 2 quick slants over the middle in game 1. I remember texting my brothers about it. One of them was to DK and it was a beautiful 3rd down conversion. You know the kind, 3rd and 5 so we throw a 7 yard ball. The kind of conversion we don't normally get. Usually it's 3rd and 4? Everyone go long while the offensive line "protects" Russell for a sack or hurried throw. Of course, since the quick slant worked, obviously we can't go back to it again...

 

[Aircrew]

Keep Russ, move on from Pete and co. I do not want to be the Browns or Jets continually trying to find a decent QB. Russ may not be perfect but he is one of the best QBs in football. You don't trade that away you build around it.

Why would Russ want to stay for a rebuild? Even for just the last year of his contract? If a divorce is all but guaranteed, why keep an asset that loses value for both sides if he stays the season? Even a forced trade will net more results than a comp pick if we let him walk for nothing. Getting rid of Pete and building around Russ is the ideal situation, but based on the way this past offseason played out I just don't see that as an option. New coach, veteran QB holding down a spot while the future starter is searched for is likely the one way to reboot. I'd be ecstatic if Russ stayed as it would keep the team competitive while also attracting the best possible coaching candidate but I just cannot see Russ' camp being down with that. Just like with all the defensive superstars, the time has passed for salvaging the relationship.

This.

 

[Scorpion05]

We'll get a first rounder and a 3rd for Russ. A QB that has the apparently devastating flaws some say he has on here, is not worth 3 first rounders. Can't see over the middle, holds the ball for 5 seconds, never throws short and intermediate, yadda yadda.

I'm all for blowing it up. Sometimes, you're married to someone for a long time and things get stale. Or, you take all the great things that person does for granted because they make it look easy. That is where we are with Russ. I'm not, but seems like that's where 50% of the fanbase is, and where Pete is. :2thumbs:

 

[Scorpion05]

Keep Russ, move on from Pete and co. I do not want to be the Browns or Jets continually trying to find a decent QB. Russ may not be perfect but he is one of the best QBs in football. You don't trade that away you build around it.

Why would Russ want to stay for a rebuild? Even for just the last year of his contract? If a divorce is all but guaranteed, why keep an asset that loses value for both sides if he stays the season? Even a forced trade will net more results than a comp pick if we let him walk for nothing. Getting rid of Pete and building around Russ is the ideal situation, but based on the way this past offseason played out I just don't see that as an option. New coach, veteran QB holding down a spot while the future starter is searched for is likely the one way to reboot. I'd be ecstatic if Russ stayed as it would keep the team competitive while also attracting the best possible coaching candidate but I just cannot see Russ' camp being down with that. Just like with all the defensive superstars, the time has passed for salvaging the relationship.

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[Natethegreat]

Russ is under contract he can't just leave. Also I'm pretty sure Russ would be happy to have a good offensive minded coach come here. There is plenty of talent here. We would be an attractive place for good coaches. We have reached a point that we need a new direction though.

 

[Scorpion05]

We missed our window. We aren't getting 3 firsts anymore. Russ has been solved.

It was a breath of fresh air to see Geno come in and throw slants over the middle, hit TEs multiple times. I'm sure Dissly loved having a few balls thrown his way. Then seeing Hawks O go up-tempo with Geno on his first drive--that was truly a delight to see!

It was like, WTF, that's 3 or 4 passes caught by TEs within a couple drives! And the last slant over the middle I recall Russ throwing was to Josh Gordon for a 3rd down conversion! (I'm sure there have been other since, just that one was memorable to me)

Was Geno hititng these throws because they were open, because opposing D's know Russell will overlook them? It certainly does seem like Russell has been "figured out", at least on 3rd down. 3rd and 3, 3rd and 4, feels like Russell's kryptonite since mid-last-year.

I'm still holding out hope that Waldron can "fix" Russell and the "hero ball" preoccupation problem. I've given up hope of KNJ fixing our D, so we'll need to win by outscoring our opponents.

At this point, I'd rather see Pete & KNJ go than Russell. Keep Russell, force-retire Pete.

Bwahaha

Dissly, Everett, and Parkinson combine for over 12 catches this season with Russ:

"We never throw to tight ends!! Why!?"

Geno completes 58% of his passes:

"The Offense was so efficient!!"

Geno holds the ball for over 3 seconds before throwing last night according to NEXT GEN STATS:

"Geno got the ball out so quickly!" https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/pass ... EG/5#yards

Russ throws a TD inside the numbers to DK, and throws a TD to the middle of the field to Lockett (called back), in addition to several throws over the middle in the Colts, Titans, and Vikings game:

"Russ never throws over the middle! He can't see over the line!!"

Geno has one great scoring drive against a soft defense and corners in busted coverage:

"We looked like a real NFL offense out there for the first time in forever. All of Russell's attempts are deep throws!"


Blow it up, we're not even seeing things clearly as a fan base anymore. We're disillusioned and engaging heavily in confirmation bias

 

[Aircrew]

"Blow it up, we're not even seeing things clearly as a fan base anymore. We're disillusioned and engaging heavily in confirmation bias"

Nail. On. The. Head.

 

[LTH]

So I watched the 2nd half last night and it played out, minus the Russ injury, as I expected. As a casual observer of Seattle for the last 3 years, after having been a diehard for 30+ years prior to that, it's clear to me that there's a big white elephant in the room. What we didn't know in the week 2 loss against the Titans was that the Seahawks, as we've known them under Pete/Jon, are done. They are off, the vibe is different. And if I am Jon Schneider, I move Russell Wilson before the trade deadline on November 2nd, and I do it quietly. If you want to trace all of this back to where it went off the rails, it was after last season when Russ went public with his grievances. Sure, much of what Russ had to say had merit, but the manner in which he went about it was really bad PR for a franchise QB with his persona. And, as a result, I think he lost Pete and the locker room when he did it.
It's time for a divorce. Russell already filed, now the papers need to be served. Trade him and hit reset, this season was over before it started.

Im unsure why people think Pete lost the locker room? this is a VERY stable locker room... what indication has ANYONE given that there is turbulence in the locker room?


LTH

 

[Natethegreat]

So I watched the 2nd half last night and it played out, minus the Russ injury, as I expected. As a casual observer of Seattle for the last 3 years, after having been a diehard for 30+ years prior to that, it's clear to me that there's a big white elephant in the room. What we didn't know in the week 2 loss against the Titans was that the Seahawks, as we've known them under Pete/Jon, are done. They are off, the vibe is different. And if I am Jon Schneider, I move Russell Wilson before the trade deadline on November 2nd, and I do it quietly. If you want to trace all of this back to where it went off the rails, it was after last season when Russ went public with his grievances. Sure, much of what Russ had to say had merit, but the manner in which he went about it was really bad PR for a franchise QB with his persona. And, as a result, I think he lost Pete and the locker room when he did it.
It's time for a divorce. Russell already filed, now the papers need to be served. Trade him and hit reset, this season was over before it started.

Im unsure why people think Pete lost the locker room? this is a VERY stable locker room... what indication has ANYONE given that there is turbulence in the locker room?


LTH

Not sure if he has lost the locker room but there have been some comments from players on D expressing frutration that seemed aimed toward coaches/scheme.