Geno Isn't the Guy. Sad to Say (Main)

Sgt. Largent

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Friendly reminder: After seven weeks, Geno Smith is still a top-10 QB in almost every significant metric.


I think this is more an indictment of how bad the QB play and overall offensive problems scoring are across the league right now, than showing that Geno's playing well.

He's playing well at times, but not consistently well IMO.
 

Ozzy

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I think this is more an indictment of how bad the QB play and overall offensive problems scoring are across the league right now, than showing that Geno's playing well.

He's playing well at times, but not consistently well IMO.
I agree. I don't think most people around the league view Geno as a top 10 guy either. But as I've said before he does enough good things and bad things that it's easy to confirm priors for both sides of the Geno debate.
 

rcaido

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I say he is more of a top 12/13th QB right now

Geno stats ranking 2023

Completion percentage - 8th
Yards - 18th
Yards per pass - 10th w/ 3 other QBs
TDs - Tied 17th w/ 5 other QBs
Passer rating 12th
Int - Tied 6th w 11 other QBs
3rd down conversion - 28th
Red Zone completion % - 27th
Red Zone completion - 16th
Red Zone scoring - 12th Tied w/ 7 other QBs
 

keasley45

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if someone wants to host a share-site for me to drop some mp4 clips of the ALL22, I'd be happy to upload snips of certain plays or sequences when i can so that we can have a more fruitful discussion around the performance of the team.

It does certainly shed light on what the issue has been with the Offense lately. I've said it a few times now that when you watch the tape, you can tell that much of whats hampering things is the chemistry between Geno and DK being off. That alone lost us the Cincy game, beyond the obvious INT.

The other issue is that the guys Geno needs to go to to ween himself off of DK are green. JSN is getting more plays designed to go his way and Bobo is as well, but they are both still working through getting on the same page with Geno. When they're on, its great. When they aren't, critical plays are missed, yet all the talk seems to just settle around Geno regressing.

As an example, and i talked about this play in another post - the INT on the throw to Bobo in the redzone against the Cards

See images below. Note, you have to start from the bottom and scroll up.

But this is a case of it looking like Geno just made a dumb decision, when in reality, the play would have been a TD if QB and WR were on the same page.

On the play, Bobo runs an out toward the 1st down marker. The DB is in his hip pocket. geno sees that there's NO ONE behind him and pumps him up field.

Bobo hesitates for 3 or 4 strides and turns up late for a brief window but one where Geno is trying to get a sight line now past his TE, Tackle and the DE. By the time he works to hold the safety and corner guarding JSN (hes in a zone, so watching Geno's every move) inside, as hes rolling out, he goes to release the ball, the DE breaks between the double team and affects the throw (Cross gave a crap effort on the play, btw), which ends up way short and intercepted.

One can argue that Geno should have thrown the ball sooner. You wouldnt be wrong necessarily, but he was also trying to hold the corner inside and keep him on JSN while the play unfolded late.

But its also not a case of some woeful regression. With more experience, his wr would have seen the TD as he did and turned up at the pump fake. He didnt. And in what i'd guess was an attempt to not force a miss early before Bobo broke upfield, he waited and threw late, and ended up with the result a worse result.

I cant say he should have processed faster. I think he just needs to sling it sometimes. BUT... Thats EXACTLY what he did the week prior on the pass to DK in the deep middle and it was picked because DK stopped his route.

So again, i cant blame Geno for taking an extra beat to let loose when he's not getting reliable reads / play from his #1 or his standout rook on every play.



20231026 2220011


The DE splits the double team and interrupts Geno's throw. My guess is he was going to put this one high and outside the way he did his other TD to him. In that case, the late(r) throw would have been ok, because of the height advantage Jake has on everyone. The ball never got close. But even with this later release, if geno slings it in the way he usually does, its a TD.
20231026 2219471

Its hard to see in this still, but at this point, the CB on JSN knows whats up. from here on he pushes toward Bobo.
20231026 2219101



At this point, he STILL hasnt turned up, with NO ONE behind him. Geno waits. He knows JSN's pattern is going to take his CB to the same spot he wants to hit BoBo, or at least position the defender to sniff out the play.
20231026 2218541

Below - If Bobo turns up here, its an easy TD. He continues to the sideline. Geno sees it and pump fakes.
20231026 221831120231026 2218091
 

keasley45

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and apologies, but DAZN, who hosts Gamepass, makes it hard to snag clips and screens anymore. Havent figured out a way to get the controls to not show up in the paused frames.
 

knownone

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I think this is more an indictment of how bad the QB play and overall offensive problems scoring are across the league right now, than showing that Geno's playing well.

He's playing well at times, but not consistently well IMO.
I agree that QB play is down across the league. But most of these metrics are relative to the league average. So, in this context, it's hard to argue Geno's not playing well when he's often significantly above average. As for inconsistency: You don't hear many rumblings about the inconsistencies of Hurts, Stafford, Cousins, Lawrence, Prescott, Herbert, and the other QBs floating around that top-ten range. Why? The answer is obvious: People have a preconceived notion about who Geno is. If we swapped Geno for Lawrence (all else equal), I guarantee many of Geno's detractors would pivot their blame toward Pete for those same struggles.
 

Sgt. Largent

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I agree that QB play is down across the league. But most of these metrics are relative to the league average. So, in this context, it's hard to argue Geno's not playing well when he's often significantly above average. As for inconsistency: You don't hear many rumblings about the inconsistencies of Hurts, Stafford, Cousins, Lawrence, Prescott, Herbert, and the other QBs floating around that top-ten range. Why? The answer is obvious: People have a preconceived notion about who Geno is. If we swapped Geno for Lawrence (all else equal), I guarantee many of Geno's detractors would pivot their blame toward Pete for those same struggles.


Not sure what we're debating. Technically you are correct, but it's because QB play is down across the league, not because Geno's playing great.

Both can be right.

Doesn't mean I want him gone. Doesn't mean I wish Lock would start. Just means there's a lot of REALLY mediocre QB play going on right now that places Geno in the top 10-12 QB's in the NFC. Not all that impressive.
 

renofox

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Geno is similar to (2012-2018) RW in that he is a well above average QB when he maintains focus and doesn't make too many boneheaded mistakes.

RW was better at limiting deer in the headlights fubars.

If geno can clean it up, he could be better than peak RW, and that's Top 3.

Let's just hope he does, or at least enough to be Top 5-10. He's close.
 

knownone

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Not sure what we're debating. Technically you are correct, but it's because QB play is down across the league, not because Geno's playing great.

Both can be right.

Doesn't mean I want him gone. Doesn't mean I wish Lock would start. Just means there's a lot of REALLY mediocre QB play going on right now that places Geno in the top 10-12 QB's in the NFC. Not all that impressive.
I don't think we're debating. We view the situation differently.

For me, this topic rests on one question: Why is QB play down? And the answer is that defenses have adapted to certain offenses, making the QB position harder to play. So, having an above-average QB indicates your QB's ability in 2023. No caveats are needed to justify his position within the top 10, assuming you follow the metrics that put him there. Despite his struggles, he's still playing above average at a time when many QBs around the league are struggling.

Does that make sense? The argument is not comparing Geno's situation to the current league circumstances but instead to an idealized version of QB production. So, is Geno playing great? No. But he is playing pretty damn well relative to the rest of the league.
 

Sgt. Largent

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I don't think we're debating. We view the situation differently.

For me, this topic rests on one question: Why is QB play down? And the answer is that defenses have adapted to certain offenses, making the QB position harder to play. So, having an above-average QB indicates your QB's ability in 2023. No caveats are needed to justify his position within the top 10, assuming you follow the metrics that put him there. Despite his struggles, he's still playing above average at a time when many QBs around the league are struggling.

Does that make sense? The argument is not comparing Geno's situation to the current league circumstances but instead to an idealized version of QB production. So, is Geno playing great? No. But he is playing pretty damn well relative to the rest of the league.


Pretty sure we're just saying the exact same thing lol.

My opinion on Geno is he needs to play better than he's playing for this team to be better than just a possible WC team again.
 

Xxx

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The game is too fast for Geno down in tight. He is one of the worst red zone QBs in football going back to last year. I thought this season he would improve with another year under his belt. Instead he has gotten worse. The coaches will have to continue to coach around this handicap.

There is no exotic scheme you can come up with to fix this. Pound the rock as much as you can in the red zone, and throw it up to your big targets 1-on-1 and hope Geno guesses correctly is where we are at with him right now. And that is exactly what they are doing for the most part with him--this is not a coaching issue, or an O-Line issue. It's a QB who cannot process fast enough issue.

Run the ball and play defense is the recipe going forward. Geno is just along for the ride. Getting a look at Drew Lock wouldn't be a bad idea if the situation presents itself upcoming.
He doesn’t read the pre snap well either
 

pittpnthrs

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As for inconsistency: You don't hear many rumblings about the inconsistencies of Hurts, Stafford, Cousins, Lawrence, Prescott, Herbert, and the other QBs floating around that top-ten range. Why? The answer is obvious: People have a preconceived notion about who Geno is. If we swapped Geno for Lawrence (all else equal), I guarantee many of Geno's detractors would pivot their blame toward Pete for those same struggles.

Cousins and Dak get criticized constantly for their consistency. Lawrence is young and just coming into his own and has turned his team around. He'll only get better. Herbert unfortunately plays for the ever inconsistent, underachieving Chargers that have failed forever. Stafford and Hurts are both studs and shouldnt even be mentioned in this conversation.

Geno gets criticized for his inconsistency because he's earned it. People saw him play when he came out and he's been playing that same way for the second half of last season up until now. He is what he is and people clearly see it. Good system QB who folds like a wet paper towel when things go pear shaped. Its not going to change with him.
 

12forlife

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I'm not talking about football. I'm talking about you insulting a guy who is right there on gameday weekly, posting about the game. He does watch the games. If you disagree on points, then argue those points instead of trying to make yourself seem like a genius - because as I recall, you've had your ass reddened a good few times in the past by your own takes.

I'll cheer for whoever I god damn well please, including the quarterback of our team.
Hhmmm and you receive the participation trophy, and an ice cream! Keep rooting for average if that's all you ask of our team!
 

WarHawks

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Cousins and Dak get criticized constantly for their consistency. Lawrence is young and just coming into his own and has turned his team around. He'll only get better. Herbert unfortunately plays for the ever inconsistent, underachieving Chargers that have failed forever. Stafford and Hurts are both studs and shouldnt even be mentioned in this conversation.

Geno gets criticized for his inconsistency because he's earned it. People saw him play when he came out and he's been playing that same way for the second half of last season up until now. He is what he is and people clearly see it. Good system QB who folds like a wet paper towel when things go pear shaped. Its not going to change with him.
This. Exactly.
 

CouchLogic

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if someone wants to host a share-site for me to drop some mp4 clips of the ALL22, I'd be happy to upload snips of certain plays or sequences when i can so that we can have a more fruitful discussion around the performance of the team.

It does certainly shed light on what the issue has been with the Offense lately. I've said it a few times now that when you watch the tape, you can tell that much of whats hampering things is the chemistry between Geno and DK being off. That alone lost us the Cincy game, beyond the obvious INT.

The other issue is that the guys Geno needs to go to to ween himself off of DK are green. JSN is getting more plays designed to go his way and Bobo is as well, but they are both still working through getting on the same page with Geno. When they're on, its great. When they aren't, critical plays are missed, yet all the talk seems to just settle around Geno regressing.

As an example, and i talked about this play in another post - the INT on the throw to Bobo in the redzone against the Cards

See images below. Note, you have to start from the bottom and scroll up.

But this is a case of it looking like Geno just made a dumb decision, when in reality, the play would have been a TD if QB and WR were on the same page.

On the play, Bobo runs an out toward the 1st down marker. The DB is in his hip pocket. geno sees that there's NO ONE behind him and pumps him up field.

Bobo hesitates for 3 or 4 strides and turns up late for a brief window but one where Geno is trying to get a sight line now past his TE, Tackle and the DE. By the time he works to hold the safety and corner guarding JSN (hes in a zone, so watching Geno's every move) inside, as hes rolling out, he goes to release the ball, the DE breaks between the double team and affects the throw (Cross gave a crap effort on the play, btw), which ends up way short and intercepted.

One can argue that Geno should have thrown the ball sooner. You wouldnt be wrong necessarily, but he was also trying to hold the corner inside and keep him on JSN while the play unfolded late.

But its also not a case of some woeful regression. With more experience, his wr would have seen the TD as he did and turned up at the pump fake. He didnt. And in what i'd guess was an attempt to not force a miss early before Bobo broke upfield, he waited and threw late, and ended up with the result a worse result.

I cant say he should have processed faster. I think he just needs to sling it sometimes. BUT... Thats EXACTLY what he did the week prior on the pass to DK in the deep middle and it was picked because DK stopped his route.

So again, i cant blame Geno for taking an extra beat to let loose when he's not getting reliable reads / play from his #1 or his standout rook on every play.



View attachment 61419


The DE splits the double team and interrupts Geno's throw. My guess is he was going to put this one high and outside the way he did his other TD to him. In that case, the late(r) throw would have been ok, because of the height advantage Jake has on everyone. The ball never got close. But even with this later release, if geno slings it in the way he usually does, its a TD.
View attachment 61418

Its hard to see in this still, but at this point, the CB on JSN knows whats up. from here on he pushes toward Bobo.
View attachment 61417



At this point, he STILL hasnt turned up, with NO ONE behind him. Geno waits. He knows JSN's pattern is going to take his CB to the same spot he wants to hit BoBo, or at least position the defender to sniff out the play.
View attachment 61416

Below - If Bobo turns up here, its an easy TD. He continues to the sideline. Geno sees it and pump fakes.
View attachment 61415View attachment 61414
Keep the video playing and hit the print screen button. Can't remember if it straight up saves the image or copies it so you have to paste it into a file or not. Could be worth a google to get a more detailed how-to. I don't know how to do this if you're using an imac, but it is possible on those as well.
 
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