Geno Isn't the Guy. Sad to Say (Main)

[SoulfishHawk]

Some people believe in the guy, some don't, some are on the fence. It comes with the position, and that's ok.

 

[SonicHawk]

Just imagine if we had drafted Richardson, Drew Lock could be starting now!

 

[keasley45]

Some people believe in the guy, some don't, some are on the fence. It comes with the position, and that's ok.

You know what? you're exactly right. Its a fan site. It just gets muddled sometimes when you cross folks who have a genuine interest in Xs and Os and taking into account quantifiable evidence and complete team metrics vs those who are a bit more B&W and just see and feel how /what they do. And I'm not trying to be derogatory at all. Its just a matter of where your position originates, and how firmly or passionately you are rooted.

As an example, if you watch the All-22 of Sunday's game and Geno's INT on the throw to Jake - If youre trying to discern whether Geno's error is a troubling sign of things to come or whether there was more to it, you might look at the two angles provided and notice that during the route, Geno immediatley pump fakes for Jake to turn his route upfield. Jake is angling toward the sideline and Geno sees that theres no safety help behind him. Jake hesitates. Geno then looks to Lockett either to see if there's daylight enough to get him the ball or (more likely) to hold the Safety inside for the throw to Jake. He then comes back to Jake but by the time he lets the ball go, the DLineman abruptly beats Charles Cross and interupts the follow through of his arm (which is what led to the ball falling short). The ball came out awkwardly, side-armed, and late. One can argue he souldnt have thrown it at all. Thats fair. But Id wager he didnt think his follow through would be affected by the Dlineman cutting under Cross's block.

The error - a communication break between the QB and a rookie WR where the throw would have likely led to a TD had the two played together longer and been on the same page.

One side sees the result as another sign that Geno is regressing. The other is willing to look beyond the result and to the cause.

Its not a defense of Geno. Its simply a statement of the facts of the play.

I'd post clips of this as i have in the past, but DAZN has eliminated that function on their site. Might try to take photo stills later if there's interest.

 

[chrispy]

The aspect of Geno QB that hits me the hardest, and that no one has mentioned in 30 pages, is that he stepped up to the mic on Sunday and said, "I need to play better". I know that's cliche and we hear it weekly from a lot of NFL podiums, but it's refreshing to see self-accountability and honesty in front of the Seahawks logo.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He absolutely does that every time. He is accountable and clearly a good leader who has his teammates on his side.

 

[keasley45]

Since I have All 22 open. The 2nd to last drive against Cincy, the series after the completion to Metcalf which got the ball inside the 10.

First down - the play is designed to go to 14. Off the snap, the CB plays DK perfectly, forcing him oustide and wide up the sideline. I'd wager this was an option route where DK could either run a fade or come across the defender, one on one and get the ball coming toward the middle of the field.

DK gets slowed down a good bit by the CB and then held (should have been called), which slowed his release. Geno COULD have thrown the ball in his direction at this point, anticipating DK winning and pushing up field but at the point of engagement between DK and the CB, they were hidden from Geno's sight by the oline. Geno abandons DK as hes coming free. He looks back toward the middle of the field but everything is covered.

This is where the BS that DK was on during the game factors in. A successful play in a situation like this requires the WR and QB to be on the same page ENTIRELY. DK already led Geno into a pick earlier on by giving up on his route. For Geno to toss the ball up blindly to DK, they HAVE to know each what the other is thinking. I dont think they do necessarily or at least didnt in this game. The fact that DK was inactive last week makes me wonder whether there's some real tension there.

2nd down - the 'JSN WAS WIDE OPEN' play. Geno takes the snap, looks to JSN to move the safety to his side. The play is designed, again to go to DK. Throwing to JSN would have required Geno to look the opposite way off the snap to move the safety left. But given the DB's leverage and his familiarity (assumed) with DK, his choice is logical. Throwing to JSN would have meant throwing the ball exactly where he was moving the safety.

What is debatable is Geno's decision to not throw DK the ball as he is breaking toward the goal line, coming across the field. What IS clear is that the Bengals played this series and the one that followed perfectly. I honestly think he saw the LB's depth, fading back as too risky a play. But again, if he and DK are 100% on the same page, i think he knows what 14s depth will be, where he'll be in anticipation, and he lets it fly. Instead, he takes a sack. He SHOULD have let this one go. He didnt.

3rd down - I keep harping on the chemistry issue between DK and Geno because on the very next play, DK is on the sideline, Jake is in, and Geno hits JSN on a well timed slant across the middle. Why was our #1 WR yanked in one of the games biggest moments? maybe he was actually injured and needed a breather. Maybe Shane is on some crack and getting too cute? Or maybe theres a disconnect between Geno and DK that led in part to the missed opportunities against the Bengals.

4th down - just a shi++y play design - a jumble of non options all clustered around the goal line to Geno's left. Had he hit DK on the cross underneath, Cincy was sitting on it and likely picks it off.

 

[keasley45]

To close the loop on the Cincy debacle. The INT on the throw to DK was just some idiocy on DK's part. I know its been discussed already, but i'm saying it again because i think its a legit issue. There's a disconnect between Geno and DK that looks to be born in large part from DK's attitude. Whether's its frustration, immaturity, selfishness... doesnt matter. What does matter is that it looks to be affecting our performance on offense.

And before i go to this play, on the drive where Bobo took the big hit and had to the leave the game (i'm guessing because DAZN removed the qtr, time, down and distance clip that used to preceed each play), a few plays prior (i think its this drive), Geno is rolling right and ends up scrambling out of bounds for a yard or two. What MIGHT have been was a TD, had DK not inexplicably taken his route right toward the safety standing in the deep middle. DK breaks the zone as Geno is rolling. Then, rather than realizing where on the field he is and breaking back toward the sideline / corner of the enzone, he just keeps running, wide open, backed turned to GEno and galloping right into coverage. At the last minute, he realizes where he is and swings his head around, but by this point, the play is basically over. Idiocy

Back to the INT. Again, DK takes his route up field but rather than drifting slightly toward the middel of the field, he actually leans back onto the DB as he's running, flippig himself to the outside, placing the DB inside and exactly where Geno thought DK was going. WTF DK was thinking i have no idea, other than maybe being more concerned with muscling the DB out of position than actually trying to make a play with his QB. Its just dumb, and again, I'd wager, wether the team wants to admit it or not, played into him being inactive last week.

The stats show a QB throwing an INT and failing to lead TD drives. The truth isnt so simple. And in this case, the truth has what looks to be a healthy dose of drama attached to it.

 

[fenderbender123]

30 pages in this thread? Geeze...

Teams win championships. A solid team around him, along with proper play calling and scheme, Geno is definitely "the guy". He is not the guy you want to mitigate a lot of weaknesses in an offense, though. However, those kinds of QBs are expensive.

 

[LTH]

Umm, let's see:

OL, we found better centers, but our starting tackles have been hurt. So no, OL23 isn't better than OL22, not in the games played.
WR, Lockett's a year older, Lockett23 is not better than Lockett22. DK23 and DK22, about the same? JSN wasn't a factor. Before Bobo, our WR corp wasn't better.
TE, ummm same?
RB, somewhat better?

We haven't even seen this starting unit play together but one half of football. We have seen flashes of a great offense.

Are the Hawks O in 22 better than in 23? Yes they are... I mean at this point you can look at it statistically (which i have not done) and say no (I'll take your word for it.) If you look at the season as a progression and you look at historically the way Carroll brings his teams along its a no Brainer that this team is exactly where Carroll wants it to be.... they are 4-2 tied with the Niners for the west. It's a progression like a freight train with 100 cars attached going up a big hill, they are working through adversity not playing their best football but yet they are still winning.... This is a mark of a great team. Then they get to the top of the hill, in which, they start hitting their stride, and it all starts coming together. No... this team maybe right now is not playing their best statistical football but it's coming... I see it clear as day! And I'm kind of blowen away that others don't see it. Stats are a great way to measure success but they don't tell the whole story.

LTH

 

[JustTheTip]

30 pages in this thread? Geeze...

Teams win championships. A solid team around him, along with proper play calling and scheme, Geno is definitely "the guy". He is not the guy you want to mitigate a lot of weaknesses in an offense, though. However, those kinds of QBs are expensive.

Yup, the problem is the MULTIPLE issues the Seahawks have don't play nicely together.

 

[Fade]

Things are never perfect in the NFL. What separates, great QBs from average ones is their ability to overcome non optimal situations.

They ain't payin' Geno $35M APY to be avg. or to be a bridge.

If he doesn't start playing like what they are paying him, he won't be here much longer.

 

[sutz]

They ain't payin' Geno $35M APY .

That's the factual part of your post.

He's only getting around $27 mill guaranteed IIRC.

 

[Lagartixa]

They ain't payin' Geno $35M APY to be avg. or to be a bridge.

That's the factual part of your post.

He's only getting around $27 mill guaranteed IIRC.

I was just about to do the same thing. Here are a few more details.

Smith's cash flows are $27.5M for 2023, $22.5M for 2024 if he's on the roster as of the fifth day of the 2024 waiver period, and $25M in 2025 if the Seahawks still want him then.
His cap numbers are $10.1M in 2023, $31.2M in 2024, and $33.7M in 2025.

And actually, Smith's average annual compensation of $25M (28.6% lower than the nonsense figure of $35M APY Fade evidently pulled out of his ass) is 18th-highest in the league, so the Seahawks are indeed paying him like an average starting QB. If they get more than that out of him, like they have so far, that's a good contract.

 

[Mike Hawk 425]

Oh so this Fade dude just continually makes things up and claims them to be facts. Got it.

 

[Lagartixa]

Oh so this Fade dude just continually makes things up and claims them to be facts. Got it.

I was really harsh on Fade last year for his assertions that the Broncos were an organization being run much better than the Seahawks, so the Broncos would be contending for titles a lot in the (then-)near future while the Seahawks were doomed to several years of misery until Pete Carroll either retired or was fired. What actually pushed me into attacking him so harshly was when he did some childish stuff like intentionally spelling Jody Allen's name wrong. I responded by (edited to add: doing some childish stuff like...) intentionally spelling his handle wrong in an insulting way. Anyway, despite that stuff, Fade does actually make some worthwhile contributions here.

I have found Fade's arrogant-appearing style annoying. For example, he'll watch a YouTube video on NFL defenses and then post as if he thinks he's better-qualified to run an NFL defense than Pete Carroll and Clint Hurtt, or he'll watch a video on "cash over cap" and then post as if he thinks he's better-qualified to manage an NFL roster than Seahawks management. But I'll say this for him: at least he watches the videos and reads about these things. There are other posters who clutter up many discussions around here without contributing much, if anything at all, of value, and some do so and even admit occasionally that they don't understand the things they're saying Carroll or Seahawks management don't understand. I'm not gonna name names, but I will say I found the quality of discussion around here Sunday night, yesterday, and today better than in the previous few weeks.
Fade does go and seek to learn things about football and the NFL, and I'm certain there are things relevant to our discussion of the Seahawks that he knows much better than I do. His style of posting is brash and arrogant, but I've started trying to think about how much I've enjoyed certain players who were seen as brash and arrogant, and that helps me take Fade's style with a grain of salt.

Once you get past that, Fade actually appears to retain quite a bit of what he learns, so even if some of his conclusions look like nonsense to me, there are gems among his observations. I disagreed with most of his conclusions about how the Seahawks, Broncos, and Rams were managing their rosters, for example, but found some gems in some of what he said about some of the ways to get around salary-cap restrictions.

The one really big bias Fade appears to have is that it seems he's got it in his head that Pete Carroll is holding the Seahawks back and that the team would be better off without Carroll and won't go anywhere until he's gone. But we've all got our biases. And Fade isn't afraid to be wrong. He'll post whatever he thinks and/or feels is right at the time, and he's got the integrity not to go back and delete or edit his proven-wrong statements after the fact. I respect that he puts himself out there and that he's man enough to face the music when things go very differently from how he thought they would.

 

[scutterhawk]

However in the Seahawk case, it’s happened 2 games in a row now. Geno has 2 INTs in the red zone (one against Cincy and another against the Cards) that’s at the very least taken 6 points off the board (2 fgs). Considering that ball security is one of the most important things that Pete coaches, it’s been poor the past two games.

Yeah, but the fact that Geno DID help the Seahawks to WIN that game against a Division Rival by 10 points has to also be recognized....He made some mistakes in the heat of the battles, BUT--NOT everything he did deserves criticism by his supposed Seahawks Fans, eh?

 

[scutterhawk]

Oh so this Fade dude just continually makes things up and claims them to be facts. Got it.

Now you're getting it, Thumbs up to ya.
ANYBODY who is constantly dwelling on negative shit, opens themselves up to criticisms....sounds like a pretty simple conclusion to me. ;-)

 

[scutterhawk]

I was really harsh on Fade last year for his assertions that the Broncos were an organization being run much better than the Seahawks, so the Broncos would be contending for titles a lot in the (then-)near future while the Seahawks were doomed to several years of misery until Pete Carroll either retired or was fired. What actually pushed me into attacking him so harshly was when he did some childish stuff like intentionally spelling Jody Allen's name wrong. I responded by intentionally spelling his handle wrong in an insulting way. Anyway, despite that stuff, Fade does actually make some worthwhile contributions here.

I have found Fade's arrogant-appearing style annoying. For example, he'll watch a YouTube video on NFL defenses and then post as if he thinks he's better-qualified to run an NFL defense than Pete Carroll and Clint Hurtt, or he'll watch a video on "cash over cap" and then post as if he thinks he's better-qualified to manage an NFL roster than Seahawks management. But I'll say this for him: at least he watches the videos and reads about these things. There are other posters who clutter up many discussions around here without contributing much, if anything at all, of value, and some do so and even admit occasionally that they don't understand the things they're saying Carroll or Seahawks management don't understand. I'm not gonna name names, but I will say I found the quality of discussion around here Sunday night, yesterday, and today better than in the previous few weeks.
Fade does go and seek to learn things about football and the NFL, and I'm certain there are things relevant to our discussion of the Seahawks that he knows much better than I do. His style of posting is brash and arrogant, but I've started trying to think about how much I've enjoyed certain players who were seen as brash and arrogant, and that helps me take Fade's style with a grain of salt.

Once you get past that, Fade actually appears to retain quite a bit of what he learns, so even if some of his conclusions look like nonsense to me, there are gems among his observations. I disagreed with most of his conclusions about how the Seahawks, Broncos, and Rams were managing their rosters, for example, but found some gems in some of what he said about some of the ways to get around salary-cap restrictions.

The one really big bias Fade appears to have is that it seems he's got it in his head that Pete Carroll is holding the Seahawks back and that the team would be better off without Carroll and won't go anywhere until he's gone. But we've all got our biases. And Fade isn't afraid to be wrong. He'll post whatever he thinks and/or feels is right at the time, and he's got the integrity not to go back and delete or edit his proven-wrong statements after the fact. I respect that he puts himself out there and that he's man enough to face the music when things go very differently from how he thought they would.

LOLOLOL Yep, Fade (like a broken clock) can be right a couple times a day. LOLOLOLOL
Cowherd has admitted that he was WRONG about the Pete Carroll / Russell Wilson Drama, maybe it's time for the OTHER Pete Carroll detractors to take a Humble Page out of the Cowherd apology book, eh?

 

[WarHawks]

It's not that Geno is regressing, it's that he's getting back to being what he has historically always been, except for that brief period last year when teams were figuring him out. This is the part I don't get. Why would anyone expect that a 32 year old qb would suddenly become something he's not? I've said over and over again that leopards don't change their spots. And he's proving me right every weekend. When the chips are down, and we're in the red zone and desperately have to have a td to win the game, can we rely on him to make that happen more often than not? No, we can't. I'm not trying to bag on the guy, I'm just trying to call a spade a spade. I like Geno. I wish him well. Just not as the long term qb of the Hawks.

 

[hawkfan68]

It's not that Geno is regressing, it's that he's getting back to being what he has historically always been, except for that brief period last year when teams were figuring him out. This is the part I don't get. Why would anyone expect that a 32 year old qb would suddenly become something he's not? I've said over and over again that leopards don't change their spots. And he's proving me right every weekend. When the chips are down, and we're in the red zone and desperately have to have a td to win the game, can we rely on him to make that happen more often than not? No, we can't. I'm not trying to bag on the guy, I'm just trying to call a spade a spade. I like Geno. I wish him well. Just not as the long term qb of the Hawks.

He’s in the same class as Fitzmagic or Josh McCown.....good but not great.