Geno gets the nod for the upcoming Titans

[SoulfishHawk]

If he's still hurt even a little, he needs to sit. Period

 

[renofox]

Everybody pointing to the Dallas game to prove that Geno is awesome seems happy to believe he should be judged only by the best statistical game of his career. They also don't mention that the 3 drives in the 4th qtr went:

29 yards, turnover on downs
24 yards, turnover on downs
25 yards, turnover on downs

3 chances to win the game. LOSS

What about his prior two games?

49ers - 2 scoring drives total
4 plays, 1 yd, FG
14 plays, 78 yds, FG
18/27, 180y, -0-TD, 1 INT. LOSS

Rams - 4 scoring drives total
14 plays, 88 yds, TD
15 plays, 62yds, FG
6 plays, 43 yds, FG
8 plays, 13 yds, FG
From that point on;
4 plays, 11 yds, punt
3 plays, 1 yd, punt
3 plays, 7 yds, punt
3 plays, -1 yd, INT
7 plays, 38 yds, missed 55y FG with the wonderful decision to run the ball instead of spiking it.
22/34, 233y, 1 TD, -0- INT. LOSS

So keep on thinking that the Dallas game was Geno turning the corner and he is now going to start lighting it up. If that makes you happy, that's great.

Rainbows and Unicorns for Everybody!

I'll pass on the suspension of reality and keep eating the bologna sandwich the Seahawks feed us most weeks. At least it's better than the shit sandwich hiding under the surface.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Everything Sucks everybody!!!! And don't your forget it!!!!!

Someone has hope, someone is excited after a win, someone wants the team to make the playoffs.........we MUST PUT A STOP TO IT!!!

 

[IndyHawk]

Everybody pointing to the Dallas game to prove that Geno is awesome seems happy to believe he should be judged only by the best statistical game of his career. They also don't mention that the 3 drives in the 4th qtr went:

29 yards, turnover on downs
24 yards, turnover on downs
25 yards, turnover on downs

3 chances to win the game. LOSS

What about his prior two games?

49ers - 2 scoring drives total
4 plays, 1 yd, FG
14 plays, 78 yds, FG
18/27, 180y, -0-TD, 1 INT. LOSS

Rams - 4 scoring drives total
14 plays, 88 yds, TD
15 plays, 62yds, FG
6 plays, 43 yds, FG
8 plays, 13 yds, FG
From that point on;
4 plays, 11 yds, punt
3 plays, 1 yd, punt
3 plays, 7 yds, punt
3 plays, -1 yd, INT
7 plays, 38 yds, missed 55y FG with the wonderful decision to run the ball instead of spiking it.
22/34, 233y, 1 TD, -0- INT. LOSS

So keep on thinking that the Dallas game was Geno turning the corner and he is now going to start lighting it up. If that makes you happy, that's great.

Rainbows and Unicorns for Everybody!

I'll pass on the suspension of reality and keep eating the bologna sandwich the Seahawks feed us most weeks. At least it's better than the shit sandwich hiding under the surface.

I think it's a Waldron issue more than a Geno one.

I actually think Lock is easier for Waldron to GP around only because
it forces Waldron to keep it simple.

With Geno he gets all stupid after the script plays are used.

I wonder if Lock used more behind the center works better than Geno
being used more in the gun?
This is something I noticed during the game - Not a lot of gun

 

[Rosco]

Geno had 300+ yards and four touchdowns in his last start against the #5 scoring defense. He is the hot hand.

What hot hand? I wouldn’t call a 3/4 game losing streak a hot hand.

 

[knownone]

What hot hand? I wouldn’t call a 3/4 game losing streak a hot hand.

Okay. Non sequitur aside. Assume you are comparing two QBs: QB-A is coming off a 4TD 300-yard game against the #6 defense (DVOA), and QB-B is coming off a 1TD 200-yard game against the #23 defense. Who has the hotter hand?

This is a rhetorical question.

 

[renofox]

Another hypothetical:

QB A in the 4th qtr of a 6 point loss turns it over on downs 3 of 3 drives.

QB B after the 2:00 warning goes 92 yards through the air in ~1:30 to score the game winning TD.

Who has the hotter hand?

Limited perceptions make for limited conclusions.

 

[SeAhAwKeR4life]

Okay. Non sequitur aside. Assume you are comparing two QBs: QB-A is coming off a 4TD 300-yard game against the #6 defense (DVOA), and QB-B is coming off a 1TD 200-yard game against the #23 defense. Who has the hotter hand?

This is a rhetorical question.

They just have "grass is greener" thinking. Lock just isn't as good, it's a fact, but he was good enough to get us one win and now everyone is dreaming he'd be some kind of savior.

 

[Rosco]

Okay. Non sequitur aside. Assume you are comparing two QBs: QB-A is coming off a 4TD 300-yard game against the #6 defense (DVOA), and QB-B is coming off a 1TD 200-yard game against the #23 defense. Who has the hotter hand?

This is a rhetorical question.

cherry picking?

 

[renofox]

They just have "grass is greener" thinking. Lock just isn't as good, it's a fact, but he was good enough to get us one win and now everyone is dreaming he'd be some kind of savior.

Not at all. Many just believe Geno and Lock (with some reps) will perform at about the same level.

If that's the case, why pay $30M when you can pay $5-6M for the same thing.

$20M+ of extra cap has the potential to improve this team much more than Geno vs. Lock.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Another hypothetical:

QB A in the 4th qtr of a 6 point loss turns it over on downs 3 of 3 drives.

QB B after the 2:00 warning goes 92 yards through the air in ~1:30 to score the game winning TD.

Who has the hotter hand?

Limited perceptions make for limited conclusions.

I think it's fair to say the hotter hand in this scenario is probably the one who didn't lead a single drive ending in a punt for a full night against a much, much better defense while also being faced with having to try overcoming his defense giving up 41 points.

Lock's drive was great, but you're right. Limited perceptions do make for limited conclusions, and reducing this down to "he turned it over on downs" is... well, extremely reductive.

Lock was in a position to have a drive like that be enough for a win. He threw multiple near interceptions, misfired on the first DK catch that could've been a touchdown itself, and got incredibly lucky that the two other Metcalf catches weren't picked, let alone caught. This after a night where, frankly, the passing offense had been fairly anemic against a struggling defense in crisis for 3 quarters.

He stayed resilient and delivered. This deserves much credit that I will give time and time again, but that outcome does not absolve him of his numerous mistakes when we're talking about him taking a dude's job at the most important spot in the game, ya know?

Geno put up 4 teeders against one of the hottest defenses in the NFL and still had to try to do it all himself at the end. The Cowboys have the best NASCAR package in the league, they have monster playmakers in the secondary, and they rank strongly overall unlike Philadelphia.

What did he get in return for that performance? A playcall specifically designed to let a raging Micah Parsons come through unblocked on fourth, which is now being reduced to "he turned it over on downs." The narrative continues.

Despite all of that factual context, people only care about the end result and tend to fill in the blanks with whatever that result made them feel.

If the Seattle defense picks Dak off twice in the second half, Seattle wins that Dallas game that was a significantly taller order to win. No doubt. No doubt at all. Does the conversation change then? Yeah. Maybe for a week until people are pissed off again, and then the majority will go right back to "Geno chokes every time" or whatever. Same thing will happen to Lock if he takes over, fair or not, if this team starts losing.

It's narratives. It's all narratives. The majority will embrace the popular narrative and it'll perpetuate itself via confirmation bias. This is the world now.

 

[IndyHawk]

I think it's fair to say the hotter hand in this scenario is probably the one who didn't lead a single drive ending in a punt for a full night against a much, much better defense while also being faced with having to try overcoming his defense giving up 41 points.

Lock's drive was great, but you're right. Limited perceptions do make for limited conclusions, and reducing this down to "he turned it over on downs" is... well, extremely reductive.

Lock was in a position to have a drive like that be enough for a win. He threw multiple near interceptions, misfired on the first DK catch that could've been a touchdown itself, and got incredibly lucky that the two other Metcalf catches weren't picked, let alone caught. This after a night where, frankly, the passing offense had been fairly anemic against a struggling defense in crisis for 3 quarters.

He stayed resilient and delivered. This deserves much credit that I will give time and time again, but that outcome does not absolve him of his numerous mistakes when we're talking about him taking a dude's job at the most important spot in the game, ya know?

Geno put up 4 teeders against one of the hottest defenses in the NFL and still had to try to do it all himself at the end. The Cowboys have the best NASCAR package in the league, they have monster playmakers in the secondary, and they rank strongly overall unlike Philadelphia.

What did he get in return for that performance? A playcall specifically designed to let a raging Micah Parsons come through unblocked on fourth, which is now being reduced to "he turned it over on downs." The narrative continues.

Despite all of that factual context, people only care about the end result and tend to fill in the blanks with whatever that result made them feel.

If the Seattle defense picks Dak off twice in the second half, Seattle wins that Dallas game that was a significantly taller order to win. No doubt. No doubt at all. Does the conversation change then? Yeah. Maybe for a week until people are pissed off again, and then the majority will go right back to "Geno chokes every time" or whatever. Same thing will happen to Lock if he takes over, fair or not, if this team starts losing.

It's narratives. It's all narratives. The majority will embrace the popular narrative and it'll perpetuate itself via confirmation bias. This is the world now.

I'm not saying you're wrong but on the DK catch that should have been
a TD, how do we know DK ran the route right?
It's not exactly his strong point and yet it's easy just to blame Lock.

 

[renofox]

I think it's fair to say the hotter hand in this scenario is probably the one who didn't lead a single drive ending in a punt for a full night against a much, much better defense while also being faced with having to try overcoming his defense giving up 41 points.

Lock's drive was great, but you're right. Limited perceptions do make for limited conclusions, and reducing this down to "he turned it over on downs" is... well, extremely reductive.

Lock was in a position to have a drive like that be enough for a win. He threw multiple near interceptions, misfired on the first DK catch that could've been a touchdown itself, and got incredibly lucky that the two other Metcalf catches weren't picked, let alone caught. This after a night where, frankly, the passing offense had been fairly anemic against a struggling defense in crisis for 3 quarters.

He stayed resilient and delivered. This deserves much credit that I will give time and time again, but that outcome does not absolve him of his numerous mistakes when we're talking about him taking a dude's job at the most important spot in the game, ya know?

Geno put up 4 teeders against one of the hottest defenses in the NFL and still had to try to do it all himself at the end. The Cowboys have the best NASCAR package in the league, they have monster playmakers in the secondary, and they rank strongly overall unlike Philadelphia.

What did he get in return for that performance? A playcall specifically designed to let a raging Micah Parsons come through unblocked on fourth, which is now being reduced to "he turned it over on downs." The narrative continues.

Despite all of that factual context, people only care about the end result and tend to fill in the blanks with whatever that result made them feel.

If the Seattle defense picks Dak off twice in the second half, Seattle wins that Dallas game that was a significantly taller order to win. No doubt. No doubt at all. Does the conversation change then? Yeah. Maybe for a week until people are pissed off again, and then the majority will go right back to "Geno chokes every time" or whatever. Same thing will happen to Lock if he takes over, fair or not, if this team starts losing.

It's narratives. It's all narratives. The majority will embrace the popular narrative and it'll perpetuate itself via confirmation bias. This is the world now.

Lots of good points. I agree that if you look at the totality of their respective performances this season, Geno has played better than Lock.

I also believe that Lock, if given significant 1st team reps, would play at about the same level as Geno. For the upcoming games, I would give the Seahawks about the same chance of winning with either QB, since the performance of the Defense will be much more determinant than the level of QB play, imo.

I also have to weigh the value of the potential benefit to next year's team, especially since I don't think this year's team has a snowball's chance of making a deep playoff run. If lock can show he is equal to or possibly better than Geno, that's a lot of extra cap $ available by retaining Lock to compete with a drafted QB. Those cap $ could be the difference between being competitive in the playoffs next year or continuing along the current path of .500 teams going nowhere.

We all have different ways of viewing what's best for the Seahawks. Mine is focused more on building for future potential than taking the safe path to maintain the status quo.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm not saying you're wrong but on the DK catch that should have been
a TD, how do we know DK ran the route right?
It's not exactly his strong point and yet it's easy just to blame Lock.

Huh. That's a fair point. I concede that as a possibility I had not considered.

Heh. Narratives, right?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Lots of good points. I agree that if you look at the totality of their respective performances this season, Geno has played better than Lock.

I also believe that Lock, if given significant 1st team reps, would play at about the same level as Geno. For the upcoming games, I would give the Seahawks about the same chance of winning with either QB, since the performance of the Defense will be much more determinant than the level of QB play, imo.

I also have to weigh the value of the potential benefit to next year's team, especially since I don't think this year's team has a snowball's chance of making a deep playoff run. If lock can show he is equal to or possibly better than Geno, that's a lot of extra cap $ available by retaining Lock to compete with a drafted QB. Those cap $ could be the difference between being competitive in the playoffs next year or continuing along the current path of .500 teams going nowhere.

We all have different ways of viewing what's best for the Seahawks. Mine is focused more on building for future potential than taking the safe path to maintain the status quo.

We agree on most of this. If I'm honest, I hope neither of them are the future face of the franchise come next offseason.

That said, yeah. I'm takin' Lock at 5-7 over Geno at 30. Love Geno, think he's gonna do well elsewhere after this experience, but that's too much for me right now. If we're going stopgap, go cheap stopgap.

If Geno wants to come back, he'll need to do it at a much friendlier wage, and he'll need to withstand a real shot at the crown from Lock this offseason. Lock won a big one and put himself in that conversation, rightfully so.

When I'm speaking so harshly against Lock, I only do so at the contention (and apparently supermajority opinion now, according to the poll) that Lock should be given the job *at this moment.* As cool as his performance was, I can't lie about the downsides of it and I can't let it color my perception of Geno's capability - and I'm beating a dead horse with this point but ESPECIALLY after that Dallas game.

Starting with Dallas, I think we're finding something of an identity as an offensive unit regardless of who is in at QB. I think the defense is on the same kind of track now that they're getting cutthroat and making dudes earn their snaps. It all looks better and it has looked better for a few games now with Geno's likely best overall start as a Seahawk followed by two decent and ballsy Lock performances.

 

[knownone]

Another hypothetical:

QB A in the 4th qtr of a 6 point loss turns it over on downs 3 of 3 drives.

QB B after the 2:00 warning goes 92 yards through the air in ~1:30 to score the game winning TD.

Who has the hotter hand?

Limited perceptions make for limited conclusions.

Limited perceptions? Seriously? Your analysis limits the discussion to one drive.

 

[renofox]

We agree on most of this. If I'm honest, I hope neither of them are the future face of the franchise come next offseason.

That said, yeah. I'm takin' Lock at 5-7 over Geno at 30. Love Geno, think he's gonna do well elsewhere after this experience, but that's too much for me right now. If we're going stopgap, go cheap stopgap.

If Geno wants to come back, he'll need to do it at a much friendlier wage, and he'll need to withstand a real shot at the crown from Lock this offseason. Lock won a big one and put himself in that conversation, rightfully so.

When I'm speaking so harshly against Lock, I only do so at the contention (and apparently supermajority opinion now, according to the poll) that Lock should be given the job *at this moment.* As cool as his performance was, I can't lie about the downsides of it and I can't let it color my perception of Geno's capability - and I'm beating a dead horse with this point but ESPECIALLY after that Dallas game.

Starting with Dallas, I think we're finding something of an identity as an offensive unit regardless of who is in at QB. I think the defense is on the same kind of track now that they're getting cutthroat and making dudes earn their snaps. It all looks better and it has looked better for a few games now with Geno's likely best overall start as a Seahawk followed by two decent and ballsy Lock performances.

In one respect, the argument is moot, as Geno will be the starter for the remaining three games. I hope he performs anywhere near his Dallas level, but my head says he won't.

I also hope that the Defense shows the fire, attitude, and good play that they showed against the Eagles. I believe that attitude change came from benching Adams. I have long posted my belief that Adams is a locker room cancer. I'm hoping that PC's recent statement that Adams may be out for the season is a sign that he's finally realized this and plans on sitting Adams.

If he does, I would be much more confident in this defense. He may never do the next right thing and rotate Bobby out, but every little correct move he makes increases the chances of actually winning 3+ more games this season.

 

[renofox]

Limited perceptions? Seriously? Your analysis limits the discussion to one drive.

You're so close to getting my point.

Mull it over. You'll get it.

 

[knownone]

You're so close to getting my point.

Mull it over. You'll get it.

Okay. If you don't want to articulate a point, that's fine.

 

[knownone]

cherry picking?

In what way?