Eskridge, maybe a decent draft pick after all?

[pittpnthrs]

Thats not even it really. Its the priorities of it all. I feel the team needed a solid center much more than a #3 receiver who will only get very limited looks unless an injury happens (especially when the franchise QB called for Oline improvement and the center position is a glaring weakness). Creed was there for the taking and is already starting and playing very good ball, but they passed for yet another luxury pick and I truly believe he was only taken at that spot because other teams showed interest. So yes, he might turn out to be a good #3 receiver or even a good #2 at some point, but I sure would rather have good to great center play right now in which Humphrys would have provided. I'm sure Russ feels the same way.

To be fair we have not heard the Seahawks perspective on this. there might have been reasons why they did not pick CH. they might be picking best player available, that's what Holmgren used to do.. Eskridge might have been higher on their board it might have surprised them that he fell. they might have had another Center they liked better and missed him. This happens

If it was Pete Carrolls call then ok... but I still don't understand why most think Pete is taking total control? It could have been JS that made that call... can someone please explain that to me?

The whole best player available thing always bothered me. So you take a player you dont even need over available players of positions of weakness? I'll never understand that. I still think they took Eskridge because McVay showed some interest in him. As for Humphry, there was a large drop off at the position grade wise after he was chosen (its in the Eskridge draft thread somewhere), so i'm not sure who else they could have been eyeing up after he was gone.

Whatever, whats done is done. Russ just needs to realize he'll never have a good line under Pete Carroll no matter how much he begs.

I'm in agreement with you that the O line needs to be addressed. Look... the game is just brutal, and injuries are a problem throughout the NFL... they need to have great depth on the o-line to protect Wilson as well as the running backs, as he is getting older and more prone to injury, and I bet this year was a wakeup call for JS and Pete. they could get away with not having a great oline for a while because Wilson is allusive. but those days are gone.


LTH

Now its going to be a wake up call? Why wasnt it a wake up call before the season started when Wilson already went public with it?

 

[chris98251]

We have been trying to replace Unger for how long and are still struggling to do it. When he was traded the O line went to crap and Wilson has never been safe since. You have a chance to solidify it and go after a pick that in our situation could be considered a luxury pick. Or what I think was an appeasement pick for Wilson.

 

[LTH]

To be fair we have not heard the Seahawks perspective on this. there might have been reasons why they did not pick CH. they might be picking best player available, that's what Holmgren used to do.. Eskridge might have been higher on their board it might have surprised them that he fell. they might have had another Center they liked better and missed him. This happens

If it was Pete Carrolls call then ok... but I still don't understand why most think Pete is taking total control? It could have been JS that made that call... can someone please explain that to me?

The whole best player available thing always bothered me. So you take a player you dont even need over available players of positions of weakness? I'll never understand that. I still think they took Eskridge because McVay showed some interest in him. As for Humphry, there was a large drop off at the position grade wise after he was chosen (its in the Eskridge draft thread somewhere), so i'm not sure who else they could have been eyeing up after he was gone.

Whatever, whats done is done. Russ just needs to realize he'll never have a good line under Pete Carroll no matter how much he begs.

I'm in agreement with you that the O line needs to be addressed. Look... the game is just brutal, and injuries are a problem throughout the NFL... they need to have great depth on the o-line to protect Wilson as well as the running backs, as he is getting older and more prone to injury, and I bet this year was a wakeup call for JS and Pete. they could get away with not having a great oline for a while because Wilson is allusive. but those days are gone.


LTH

Now its going to be a wake up call? Why wasnt it a wake up call before the season started when Wilson already went public with it?

I don't know I can't speak for Carroll and JS... It's just my thought that it really wasn't a huge deal because that's part of Wilsons game. you push him out of the pocket, or the protection breaks down and he scrambles and makes a big play. just my opinion. I think they did address it by bringing in Gabe Jackson and Stone Forsythe. but it's a good question and i would like to hear Pete address it..

Shell
Lewis
Pocic
Jackson
Brown

This group hasn't played more than a couple of games together all year because of injury... to be a good offensive line they need continuity...they got to play together for several games and I think (my opinion) they will get better they have flashed some good play in a couple of games. but when you throw in Fuller, jones and curtain there is a bit of a drop off because those guys are still developing. it's not that they are crap they are developing. lets face it Pocic was drafted as a guard so he is learning the position still. Yeah they need some strong competition for these guys and some solid depth



LTH

 

[olyfan63]

I think the best hope, the best comp for Eskridge would be Joey Galloway. Eskridge does have that kind of speed burst. Now can he continue to develop.

I think the poster who said the pick was influenced by Waldron may be onto something. If Eskridge could run that receiver fly sweep with similar good outcomes like Percy Harvin or Robert Woods or Deebo Samuel, that's a nice weapon to keep defenses honest. TBD.

2 years ago we took Jordyn Brooks with Jonathan Taylor still on the board. I was like WTF, that is Marshawn 2.0, and we're passing on him? I do like Brooks; he was a solid pick IMO and continues to improve.

Even our former 2nd round pick Malik McDowell is in the NFL again, I think he has 3 sacks this year for the Browns. So the talent eval was OK, but the maturity eval not so much.

The good news is it looks promising we'll get some value out of Eskridge during his rookie contract. I think Golden Tate didn't pop until his 3rd year, and Paul Richardson was injured so much that we got maybe 1 year of actual play out of him on his rookie contract. So Eskridge showing NFL-level play in his rookie year is a wonderful sight to see.

 

[RiverDog]

Forsythe was a 6th rounder, nothing more than an afterthought, a 3rd day pick. Same with Fuller, a 7th rounder. The FA offensive line additions are all second shelf, band aid players. The only FA acquisition (actually a trade) that Pete's made in his entire tenure that can be described as a quality, long term fix was Duane Brown, and even that one was more opportunistic than it was part of a plan. The rest of them...Iupati, Jackson, Shell et al...are all other team's rejects that their teams didn't deem worthy to resign that Pete picked up at a yard sale. It wasn't until 2017, Pete's 8th season, when we extended Justin Brit before Pete signed an offensive lineman to a 2nd contract.

Even after Russell complained in the offseason about "getting hit too much", Pete didn't prioritize the OL, just tossing a few peanuts at the problem. I don't see where retaining him is going to cause that tiger to suddenly change the color of his stripes.

You don't know how Forsythe is going to work out... we haven't seen him enough to make that determination. Shell has looked good, and Jackson has looked ok. the fact is there have been so many injuries on the o line I don't think the starting O line has played but one or two games played together all season long... this is an issue... it takes time playing together to be a good O line that's just a fact so I'm still on the fence as to how good this O line can be, but I still agree they need some competition and some depth... In my mind that's fair.


LTH

I didn't say how Forsythe is going to work out. My point is that a 6th round selection is hardly a dedication to the offensive line, that we're not devoting enough resources to it. Same with Shell and Jackson. I wasn't speaking to their performance as much as I was the effort we're making to address our needs on the OL. When it comes to the offensive line, Pete has the tendency to shop in the bargain basement, yet he breaks the bank for a safety. The offensive line is Pete's Rodney Dangerfield, they don't get any respect.

And as far as Eskridge being the BPA, I don't buy that argument. Most projections had him going around 70th overall and we took him at #56. It's not like he had measurables that were off the chart as they were with Metcalf. Like another poster said, Eskridge was a luxury pick.

 

[hawkfan68]

Forsythe was a 6th rounder, nothing more than an afterthought, a 3rd day pick. Same with Fuller, a 7th rounder. The FA offensive line additions are all second shelf, band aid players. The only FA acquisition (actually a trade) that Pete's made in his entire tenure that can be described as a quality, long term fix was Duane Brown, and even that one was more opportunistic than it was part of a plan. The rest of them...Iupati, Jackson, Shell et al...are all other team's rejects that their teams didn't deem worthy to resign that Pete picked up at a yard sale. It wasn't until 2017, Pete's 8th season, when we extended Justin Brit before Pete signed an offensive lineman to a 2nd contract.

Even after Russell complained in the offseason about "getting hit too much", Pete didn't prioritize the OL, just tossing a few peanuts at the problem. I don't see where retaining him is going to cause that tiger to suddenly change the color of his stripes.

You don't know how Forsythe is going to work out... we haven't seen him enough to make that determination. Shell has looked good, and Jackson has looked ok. the fact is there have been so many injuries on the o line I don't think the starting O line has played but one or two games played together all season long... this is an issue... it takes time playing together to be a good O line that's just a fact so I'm still on the fence as to how good this O line can be, but I still agree they need some competition and some depth... In my mind that's fair.


LTH

I didn't say how Forsythe is going to work out. My point is that a 6th round selection is hardly a dedication to the offensive line, that we're not devoting enough resources to it. Same with Shell and Jackson. I wasn't speaking to their performance as much as I was the effort we're making to address our needs on the OL. When it comes to the offensive line, Pete has the tendency to shop in the bargain basement, yet he breaks the bank for a safety. The offensive line is Pete's Rodney Dangerfield, they don't get any respect.

And as far as Eskridge being the BPA, I don't buy that argument. Most projections had him going around 70th overall and we took him at #56. It's not like he had measurables that were off the chart as they were with Metcalf. Like another poster said, Eskridge was a luxury pick.

The Seahawks don't choose their picks based off media projections. I believe that is actually a good thing they don't fall bait to that stuff. Media projections picked Aaron Curry to be the best OLB/DE in the 2009 draft. How did that turn out? He was a sure bet.

Also, there were rumblings that a few other teams were zoning in on Eskridge. So the Seahawks FO most likely felt that if they didn't choose him, they would miss out on him. He was most one of the highest players on their board. Plus, they didn't know what the development of Swain would be. He was a rookie last season and only had 13 receps for 159 yards. Not enough to say that he would be a significant player in the future. He was still a big question mark at draft time.

The problem we fans have is when the Seahawks don't pick our favorite choice in the draft. We latch on to it as hey they should done this or that. It's not that cookie cutter. So when we don't get our preferred choice (or who we think they should get), we gripe and moan. Eskridge is a fine player and hopefully pans out to be very successful. He wasn't a bad choice, even if it's not the choice you wanted or believe they should have gone after.

 

[hox]

And as far as Eskridge being the BPA, I don't buy that argument. Most projections had him going around 70th overall and we took him at #56. It's not like he had measurables that were off the chart as they were with Metcalf. Like another poster said, Eskridge was a luxury pick.

The reports were that the Rams scouted Eskridge, interviewed him and was really high on him. The Rams would have picked him with their pick right after ours. Instead, they had to settle for Tutu Atwell.

 

[RiverDog]

The Seahawks don't choose their picks based off media projections. I believe that is actually a good thing they don't fall bait to that stuff. Media projections picked Aaron Curry to be the best OLB/DE in the 2009 draft. How did that turn out? He was a sure bet.

Also, there were rumblings that a few other teams were zoning in on Eskridge. So the Seahawks FO most likely felt that if they didn't choose him, they would miss out on him. He was most one of the highest players on their board. Plus, they didn't know what the development of Swain would be. He was a rookie last season and only had 13 receps for 159 yards. Not enough to say that he would be a significant player in the future. He was still a big question mark at draft time.

The problem we fans have is when the Seahawks don't pick our favorite choice in the draft. We latch on to it as hey they should done this or that. It's not that cookie cutter. So when we don't get our preferred choice (or who we think they should get), we gripe and moan. Eskridge is a fine player and hopefully pans out to be very successful. He wasn't a bad choice, even if it's not the choice you wanted or believe they should have gone after.

I sometimes get the impression that Pete and JS have a bit of arrogance about them when they assemble their draft board, that they intentionally avoid conventional wisdom players in favor of their unique approach to drafting, like rating Bruce Irvin, a one trick pony that was weak against the run, ahead of Fletcher Cox. It hasn't worked out very well, or at least it hasn't recently. I'm also dubious of our knack for trading down to accumulate picks. We've used draft picks on bandaid players so much that we typically go in with a need to get more picks. Last season, we entered the draft with just 3 selections that didn't include a first rounder. I've lost a lot of confidence in their system over the past few years.

As far as draft day rumblings about Eskridge, so what? There's always rumblings before and during the draft. It's a poker game, and some teams are undoubtedly creating 'rumblings' as a smoke screen to hide their true intentions. Like Mike Holmgren once said, everyone lies. Besides, it's not like we 'had' to have Eskridge. Even if you take Swain out of the equation, he still would have been our #3 receiver. There were other more pressing priorities and a lot of good prospects to fill them at #56.

 

[Grahamhawker]

And as far as Eskridge being the BPA, I don't buy that argument. Most projections had him going around 70th overall and we took him at #56. It's not like he had measurables that were off the chart as they were with Metcalf. Like another poster said, Eskridge was a luxury pick.

The reports were that the Rams scouted Eskridge, interviewed him and was really high on him. The Rams would have picked him with their pick right after ours. Instead, they had to settle for Tutu Atwell.

And he probably be tearing it up in LA.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I agree with you Pitt. Center should have been a much higher priority. But what we want is kind of irrelevant. Though it sure gets frustrating to see them pass up needs for something "different" so often.
I stick to my opinion that Eskridge is going to be a damn good player on this team.

 

[RiverDog]

I agree with you Pitt. Center should have been a much higher priority. But what we want is kind of irrelevant. Though it sure gets frustrating to see them pass up needs for something "different" so often.
I stick to my opinion that Eskridge is going to be a damn good player on this team.

Eskridge reminds me of another WR that we took at almost the same spot in the draft: Paul Richardson, a slight built, lightning fast WR that we took in 2014 with our 2nd round, #45 overall selection. Hopefully we get better results with Eskridge.

 

[LTH]

I agree with you Pitt. Center should have been a much higher priority. But what we want is kind of irrelevant. Though it sure gets frustrating to see them pass up needs for something "different" so often.
I stick to my opinion that Eskridge is going to be a damn good player on this team.

Eskridge reminds me of another WR that we took at almost the same spot in the draft: Paul Richardson, a slight built, lightning fast WR that we took in 2014 with our 2nd round, #45 overall selection. Hopefully we get better results with Eskridge.

Paul Richardson was not a bad pick... He blew it.. he should have stayed with the Hawks rather than leaving in FA as I always saw him as more of a system player. He just became irrelevant as the Hawks found other receivers.


LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

The problem we fans have is when the Seahawks don't pick our favorite choice in the draft. We latch on to it as hey they should done this or that. It's not that cookie cutter. So when we don't get our preferred choice (or who we think they should get), we gripe and moan. Eskridge is a fine player and hopefully pans out to be very successful. He wasn't a bad choice, even if it's not the choice you wanted or believe they should have gone after.

The real problem with most of us is that we watch the team every weekend and are invested enough to realize obvious issues and weaknesses. In doing so, we get pretty upset when a player thats available to help in those areas is passed up for a player of position that doesnt make sense. This happens more than it should with this FO. They havent had a decent draft since 2015, but they still insist on reaching and trying to look like the smartest people in the room by being unconventional because it worked 10 years ago when Pete had the inside scoop on college players that were coming out. I would just like to see them take the obvious player of need sometime rather than trying to be cute.

As for Eskridge, if you look at the numbers for #3 receivers across the league, their numbers are all comparable (barring Antonio Brown whos in a unique situation). No matter how many that try to defend it, a #3 WR was not a dire need.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I agree with you Pitt. Center should have been a much higher priority. But what we want is kind of irrelevant. Though it sure gets frustrating to see them pass up needs for something "different" so often.
I stick to my opinion that Eskridge is going to be a damn good player on this team.

Like many have said Soul, I dont dislike the player, just where he was picked. If he touches the ball on Sundays, i'm rooting for him. Like you, I do think he will be solid, but its going to take some time.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And Center was a gigantic position of need. Draft or FA, we were told they addressed the O Line.
No, they didn't at all imo.

 

[RiverDog]

I agree with you Pitt. Center should have been a much higher priority. But what we want is kind of irrelevant. Though it sure gets frustrating to see them pass up needs for something "different" so often.
I stick to my opinion that Eskridge is going to be a damn good player on this team.

Eskridge reminds me of another WR that we took at almost the same spot in the draft: Paul Richardson, a slight built, lightning fast WR that we took in 2014 with our 2nd round, #45 overall selection. Hopefully we get better results with Eskridge.

Paul Richardson was not a bad pick... He blew it.. he should have stayed with the Hawks rather than leaving in FA as I always saw him as more of a system player. He just became irrelevant as the Hawks found other receivers.


LTH

It's very debatable whether or not Richardson was a good pick. He never did much for us, his high water mark being 40+ receptions for 700+ yards the last year he was with us. Not a complete bust but also not lot of production for the #45 overall. I brought him up because his physical attributes and draft slotting are very similar to Eskridge's. It seems like we draft a lot of WR's in the 2nd/3rd rounds...Richardson, Lockett, Metcalf, and Eskridge. Did I miss any?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As for Eskridge, if you look at the numbers for #3 receivers across the league, their numbers are all comparable (barring Antonio Brown whos in a unique situation). No matter how many that try to defend it, a #3 WR was not a dire need.

In the modern NFL, you do need three or even four good receivers. Especially in a Waldron/McVay style of offense.

So I'm not mad about the Eskridge pick, he should turn out to be a very good slot/motion receiver. If he can stop getting concussed and learn how to take a hit.

 

[pittpnthrs]

As for Eskridge, if you look at the numbers for #3 receivers across the league, their numbers are all comparable (barring Antonio Brown whos in a unique situation). No matter how many that try to defend it, a #3 WR was not a dire need.

In the modern NFL, you do need three or even four good receivers. Especially in a Waldron/McVay style of offense.

So I'm not mad about the Eskridge pick, he should turn out to be a very good slot/motion receiver. If he can stop getting concussed and learn how to take a hit.

Do you though? Last season the Rams #3 receiver Van Jefferson had 19 receptions for 220 yards and a touchdown. Sure they went out and got OBJ, but that was after Woods got hurt and I doubt they would have entertained the deal if he hadent. By comparison, David Moore had 35 receptions for 417 yards and 6 touchdowns for Seattle last season. Again, Eskridge was not a dire need. Swain, Hart, and the bunch would have been just fine.

 

[Grahamhawker]

I agree with you Pitt. Center should have been a much higher priority. But what we want is kind of irrelevant. Though it sure gets frustrating to see them pass up needs for something "different" so often.
I stick to my opinion that Eskridge is going to be a damn good player on this team.

Eskridge reminds me of another WR that we took at almost the same spot in the draft: Paul Richardson, a slight built, lightning fast WR that we took in 2014 with our 2nd round, #45 overall selection. Hopefully we get better results with Eskridge.

Paul Richardson was not a bad pick... He blew it.. he should have stayed with the Hawks rather than leaving in FA as I always saw him as more of a system player. He just became irrelevant as the Hawks found other receivers.


LTH

It's very debatable whether or not Richardson was a good pick. He never did much for us, his high water mark being 40+ receptions for 700+ yards the last year he was with us. Not a complete bust but also not lot of production for the #45 overall. I brought him up because his physical attributes and draft slotting are very similar to Eskridge's. It seems like we draft a lot of WR's in the 2nd/3rd rounds...Richardson, Lockett, Metcalf, and Eskridge. Did I miss any?

Darboh was a third. Tate and Deon Butler, if we're going back that far.

Prosise was almost a receiver.

Gary Jennings, Kevin Norwood, Chris Harper and Kris Durham if you add the 4th round.

 

[RiverDog]

I took the opportunity to take a look at our recent draft choices as it applies to offensive linemen. Going backwards from 2021, here are the linemen we drafted and the round we selected them:

2021 Stone Forsythe (6)
2020 Damien Lewis (3)
2019 Phil Haynes (4)
2018 Jamarco Jones (5)
2017 Ethan Pocic (2), Justin Senior (7)
2016 Germain Ifedi (1), Rees Odhiambo (3), Joey Hunt (6)
2015 Terry Poole (4), Mark Glowinski (4)
2014 Justin Britt (2), Garrett Scott (6)

In the 4 years from 2014-17, we drafted nine offensive linemen, including 1 first rounder and 2 second rounders. In the following 4 years, from 2018-21, we drafted 4 offensive linemen, with the highest being a 3rd rounder.

Each of the four earlier years, we drafted multiple offensive linemen, including 3 in 2016, while the past 4 years we haven't had any drafts with multiple big uglies.

The average round (add up the rounds and divide by # of players drafted) from 2014-17 was 3.9, from 2018-21 it was 4.5.

Since 2018, we've drafted more wide receivers (5) than we have offensive linemen (4).

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /draft.htm

It's pretty apparent to me that Pete has been neglecting the offensive line.