Eskridge, maybe a decent draft pick after all?

[LTH]

Keep in mind that they guy got hurt early and so he is behind in the scheme of things. lets hope he starts breaking out.


LTH

 

[nwHawk]

Typically, it’s hard to fairly judge most drafted WRs until their third season. He has shown flashes. Health may be the biggest obstacle.

 

[hawkfan68]

Eskridge needs to beef up a little. Sort of like Golden Tate did while he was here. If he can be like Tate, that is a solid pick.

Just because Creed Humphrey has success in KC doesn't mean it would be same here. Duane Brown was an all-pro in Houston before he was traded to the Seahawks, while he has been the best OL player the Seahawks have, he's not close to playing at that level here. Another example is Mark Glowinski, stunk while he was here but is a big part of why the Colts have one of the top OLs in the NFL.

 

[RiverDog]

I agree that the Hawks are not throwing enough draft capital at the O line. Looking at KC depth chart I see that Creed Humphreys is starting for the chiefs. that probably would have helped out the Hawks O line.

But I also agree that Eskridge might have had more upside. I had CH for that pick on my board. to be fair they did draft Stone Forsythe and they Have addressed O line in FA it's not like they completely ignored the O line.

I think if the Hawks do not draft O line on this draft that it will be a mistake. I think they will get a middle of the road draft position in the drafting order which will be considerably better than where they normally draft.

As Wilson gets older, they have to make protecting him a priority and to be fair they Have addressed O line in FA I just think the depth is not good enough. injuries have just decimated the Hawk o line let's see how the depth works out for the remainder of the season.

LTH

Forsythe was a 6th rounder, nothing more than an afterthought, a 3rd day pick. Same with Fuller, a 7th rounder. The FA offensive line additions are all second shelf, band aid players. The only FA acquisition (actually a trade) that Pete's made in his entire tenure that can be described as a quality, long term fix was Duane Brown, and even that one was more opportunistic than it was part of a plan. The rest of them...Iupati, Jackson, Shell et al...are all other team's rejects that their teams didn't deem worthy to resign that Pete picked up at a yard sale. It wasn't until 2017, Pete's 8th season, when we extended Justin Brit before Pete signed an offensive lineman to a 2nd contract.

Even after Russell complained in the offseason about "getting hit too much", Pete didn't prioritize the OL, just tossing a few peanuts at the problem. I don't see where retaining him is going to cause that tiger to suddenly change the color of his stripes.

 

[hawkfan68]

I agree that the Hawks are not throwing enough draft capital at the O line. Looking at KC depth chart I see that Creed Humphreys is starting for the chiefs. that probably would have helped out the Hawks O line.

But I also agree that Eskridge might have had more upside. I had CH for that pick on my board. to be fair they did draft Stone Forsythe and they Have addressed O line in FA it's not like they completely ignored the O line.

I think if the Hawks do not draft O line on this draft that it will be a mistake. I think they will get a middle of the road draft position in the drafting order which will be considerably better than where they normally draft.

As Wilson gets older, they have to make protecting him a priority and to be fair they Have addressed O line in FA I just think the depth is not good enough. injuries have just decimated the Hawk o line let's see how the depth works out for the remainder of the season.

LTH

Forsythe was a 6th rounder, nothing more than an afterthought, a 3rd day pick. Same with Fuller, a 7th rounder. The FA offensive line additions are all second shelf, band aid players. The only FA acquisition (actually a trade) that Pete's made in his entire tenure that can be described as a quality, long term fix was Duane Brown, and even that one was more opportunistic than it was part of a plan. The rest of them...Iupati, Jackson, Shell et al...are all other team's rejects that their teams didn't deem worthy to resign that Pete picked up at a yard sale. It wasn't until 2017, Pete's 8th season, when we extended Justin Brit before Pete signed an offensive lineman to a 2nd contract.

Even after Russell complained in the offseason about "getting hit too much", Pete didn't prioritize the OL, just tossing a few peanuts at the problem. I don't see where retaining him is going to cause that tiger to suddenly change the color of his stripes.

Ifedi and Pocic were 1st and 2nd round picks respectively. They do draft OL in the early rounds, just not the right guys. Ifedi wasn't re-signed and Pocic hasn't lived up to his 2nd round draft pick status. Eskridge has the potential to have more impact at his respective position than both those players have at theirs so far.

 

[RiverDog]

I agree that the Hawks are not throwing enough draft capital at the O line. Looking at KC depth chart I see that Creed Humphreys is starting for the chiefs. that probably would have helped out the Hawks O line.

But I also agree that Eskridge might have had more upside. I had CH for that pick on my board. to be fair they did draft Stone Forsythe and they Have addressed O line in FA it's not like they completely ignored the O line.

I think if the Hawks do not draft O line on this draft that it will be a mistake. I think they will get a middle of the road draft position in the drafting order which will be considerably better than where they normally draft.

As Wilson gets older, they have to make protecting him a priority and to be fair they Have addressed O line in FA I just think the depth is not good enough. injuries have just decimated the Hawk o line let's see how the depth works out for the remainder of the season.

LTH

Forsythe was a 6th rounder, nothing more than an afterthought, a 3rd day pick. Same with Fuller, a 7th rounder. The FA offensive line additions are all second shelf, band aid players. The only FA acquisition (actually a trade) that Pete's made in his entire tenure that can be described as a quality, long term fix was Duane Brown, and even that one was more opportunistic than it was part of a plan. The rest of them...Iupati, Jackson, Shell et al...are all other team's rejects that their teams didn't deem worthy to resign that Pete picked up at a yard sale. It wasn't until 2017, Pete's 8th season, when we extended Justin Brit before Pete signed an offensive lineman to a 2nd contract.

Even after Russell complained in the offseason about "getting hit too much", Pete didn't prioritize the OL, just tossing a few peanuts at the problem. I don't see where retaining him is going to cause that tiger to suddenly change the color of his stripes.

Ifedi and Pocic were 1st and 2nd round picks respectively. They do draft OL in the early rounds, just not the right guys. Ifedi wasn't re-signed and Pocic hasn't lived up to his 2nd round draft pick status. Eskridge has the potential to have more impact than both those players.

Sure, we could also go back and note that two out of Pete's first three first round draft picks were offensive linemen as we drafted Russell Okung and year later James Carpenter. But it doesn't change the narrative. Pete does not place sufficient emphasis on the offensive line.

It's not that I don't like Eskridge. I just think that it wasn't the right pick to address our needs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Even if he DOES pan out and is a solid pick, how many people will still refuse to give Pete and John any credit?
I think many..........

 

[RiverDog]

Even if he DOES pan out and is a solid pick, how many people will still refuse to give Pete and John any credit?
I think many..........

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether or not we would give Pete and John credit if Eskridge pans out, nor is the issue about Eskridge's being worthy of the 56th overall pick. It's not the player that's the problem, it's the position. Wide receiver was well down our list of needs. Eskridge was projected to fall around #70 overall, so it's not like he was the BPA, either.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Just because Creed Humphrey has success in KC doesn't mean it would be same here. Duane Brown was an all-pro in Houston before he was traded to the Seahawks, while he has been the best OL player the Seahawks have, he's not close to playing at that level here. Another example is Mark Glowinski, stunk while he was here but is a big part of why the Colts have one of the top OLs in the NFL.

So basically what your saying is that no matter who the players are, the Oline will more than likely stink under a Pete Carroll led team. I'm onboard with that.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

This team needed a #3, he could very well end up being a very good one. Oh the horror

 

[RiverDog]

This team needed a #3, he could very well end up being a very good one. Oh the horror

That's a very arguable position. Freddie Swain has proven himself to be a very reliable receiver that can do a lot of things for us. But even if we were to accept it, I would still take a center with starting potential over a #3 wide receiver that at best would be used on 3rd downs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fine, Eskridge sucks. It's a horrible pick. Fire John.

better?

 

[hawkfan68]

Just because Creed Humphrey has success in KC doesn't mean it would be same here. Duane Brown was an all-pro in Houston before he was traded to the Seahawks, while he has been the best OL player the Seahawks have, he's not close to playing at that level here. Another example is Mark Glowinski, stunk while he was here but is a big part of why the Colts have one of the top OLs in the NFL.

So basically what your saying is that no matter who the players are, the Oline will more than likely stink under a Pete Carroll led team. I'm onboard with that.

Yup. It's pretty obvious that is the case as the OL has consistently been the weakest position group on the team since Pete Carroll has been here.

 

[RiverDog]

Yup. It's pretty obvious that is the case as the OL has consistently been the weakest position group on the team since Pete Carroll has been here.

I think a lot of Pete's problems with the offensive line started with Tom Cable. Cable was in love with the ZBS that calls for more athletic linemen, and I think he had the tendency to consider linemen as being interchangeable. He would take a tackle and play them at guard then back to tackle, move a center to guard then back to center. Justin Britt played a 3 positions, Ifedi played tackle, got moved to guard, then back to tackle. Similar story with Pocic. All three of those guys turned in to be relatively decent linemen but only after they got comfortable at their position. Cable's bouncing them around delayed their development.

Cable always had decent run blocking teams, which is probably why Pete liked him as it dove tailed with is run first philosophy, but even in his days at Oakland, they were horrible at pass protection. I think that Solari has given us a little better results...PFF had our OL ranked in the middle of the pack last season...but they need to start dedicating some resources to it rather than these Band-Aid fixes, and that ain't gonna happen when we're trading away two first rounders and a 4th rounder for a frigging safety.

 

[pittpnthrs]

This team needed a #3, he could very well end up being a very good one. Oh the horror

Thats not even it really. Its the priorities of it all. I feel the team needed a solid center much more than a #3 receiver who will only get very limited looks unless an injury happens (especially when the franchise QB called for Oline improvement and the center position is a glaring weakness). Creed was there for the taking and is already starting and playing very good ball, but they passed for yet another luxury pick and I truly believe he was only taken at that spot because other teams showed interest. So yes, he might turn out to be a good #3 receiver or even a good #2 at some point, but I sure would rather have good to great center play right now in which Humphrys would have provided. I'm sure Russ feels the same way.

 

[LTH]

This team needed a #3, he could very well end up being a very good one. Oh the horror

Thats not even it really. Its the priorities of it all. I feel the team needed a solid center much more than a #3 receiver who will only get very limited looks unless an injury happens (especially when the franchise QB called for Oline improvement and the center position is a glaring weakness). Creed was there for the taking and is already starting and playing very good ball, but they passed for yet another luxury pick and I truly believe he was only taken at that spot because other teams showed interest. So yes, he might turn out to be a good #3 receiver or even a good #2 at some point, but I sure would rather have good to great center play right now in which Humphrys would have provided. I'm sure Russ feels the same way.

To be fair we have not heard the Seahawks perspective on this. there might have been reasons why they did not pick CH. they might be picking best player available, that's what Holmgren used to do.. Eskridge might have been higher on their board it might have surprised them that he fell. they might have had another Center they liked better and missed him. This happens

If it was Pete Carrolls call then ok... but I still don't understand why most think Pete is taking total control? It could have been JS that made that call... can someone please explain that to me?

 

[LTH]

I agree that the Hawks are not throwing enough draft capital at the O line. Looking at KC depth chart I see that Creed Humphreys is starting for the chiefs. that probably would have helped out the Hawks O line.

But I also agree that Eskridge might have had more upside. I had CH for that pick on my board. to be fair they did draft Stone Forsythe and they Have addressed O line in FA it's not like they completely ignored the O line.

I think if the Hawks do not draft O line on this draft that it will be a mistake. I think they will get a middle of the road draft position in the drafting order which will be considerably better than where they normally draft.

As Wilson gets older, they have to make protecting him a priority and to be fair they Have addressed O line in FA I just think the depth is not good enough. injuries have just decimated the Hawk o line let's see how the depth works out for the remainder of the season.

LTH

Forsythe was a 6th rounder, nothing more than an afterthought, a 3rd day pick. Same with Fuller, a 7th rounder. The FA offensive line additions are all second shelf, band aid players. The only FA acquisition (actually a trade) that Pete's made in his entire tenure that can be described as a quality, long term fix was Duane Brown, and even that one was more opportunistic than it was part of a plan. The rest of them...Iupati, Jackson, Shell et al...are all other team's rejects that their teams didn't deem worthy to resign that Pete picked up at a yard sale. It wasn't until 2017, Pete's 8th season, when we extended Justin Brit before Pete signed an offensive lineman to a 2nd contract.

Even after Russell complained in the offseason about "getting hit too much", Pete didn't prioritize the OL, just tossing a few peanuts at the problem. I don't see where retaining him is going to cause that tiger to suddenly change the color of his stripes.

You don't know how Forsythe is going to work out... we haven't seen him enough to make that determination. Shell has looked good, and Jackson has looked ok. the fact is there have been so many injuries on the o line I don't think the starting O line has played but one or two games played together all season long... this is an issue... it takes time playing together to be a good O line that's just a fact so I'm still on the fence as to how good this O line can be, but I still agree they need some competition and some depth... In my mind that's fair.


LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

This team needed a #3, he could very well end up being a very good one. Oh the horror

Thats not even it really. Its the priorities of it all. I feel the team needed a solid center much more than a #3 receiver who will only get very limited looks unless an injury happens (especially when the franchise QB called for Oline improvement and the center position is a glaring weakness). Creed was there for the taking and is already starting and playing very good ball, but they passed for yet another luxury pick and I truly believe he was only taken at that spot because other teams showed interest. So yes, he might turn out to be a good #3 receiver or even a good #2 at some point, but I sure would rather have good to great center play right now in which Humphrys would have provided. I'm sure Russ feels the same way.

To be fair we have not heard the Seahawks perspective on this. there might have been reasons why they did not pick CH. they might be picking best player available, that's what Holmgren used to do.. Eskridge might have been higher on their board it might have surprised them that he fell. they might have had another Center they liked better and missed him. This happens

If it was Pete Carrolls call then ok... but I still don't understand why most think Pete is taking total control? It could have been JS that made that call... can someone please explain that to me?

The whole best player available thing always bothered me. So you take a player you dont even need over available players of positions of weakness? I'll never understand that. I still think they took Eskridge because McVay showed some interest in him. As for Humphry, there was a large drop off at the position grade wise after he was chosen (its in the Eskridge draft thread somewhere), so i'm not sure who else they could have been eyeing up after he was gone.

Whatever, whats done is done. Russ just needs to realize he'll never have a good line under Pete Carroll no matter how much he begs.

 

[LTH]

Even if he DOES pan out and is a solid pick, how many people will still refuse to give Pete and John any credit?
I think many..........

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether or not we would give Pete and John credit if Eskridge pans out, nor is the issue about Eskridge's being worthy of the 56th overall pick. It's not the player that's the problem, it's the position. Wide receiver was well down our list of needs. Eskridge was projected to fall around #70 overall, so it's not like he was the BPA, either.

It is relevant from the perspective that you are surmise that the seahawks don't prioritize well nor grade players well...
The problem here is you seem to think your list should be what the Seahawks should pick from. The Seahawks have always been known to grade players differently than everyone else... case and point Wilson. he was a third-round pick and everybody and their brother said the Seahawks reached for him, and I would bet you said the same... it applies to most of the Seahawk's drafts with JS. you surmise that Carroll is making all of the picks. you don't know that... it's an assumption on your part... which is fine because that's your opinion but not necessary the truth.


Draft time is coming my friend...


LTH

 

[LTH]

This team needed a #3, he could very well end up being a very good one. Oh the horror

Thats not even it really. Its the priorities of it all. I feel the team needed a solid center much more than a #3 receiver who will only get very limited looks unless an injury happens (especially when the franchise QB called for Oline improvement and the center position is a glaring weakness). Creed was there for the taking and is already starting and playing very good ball, but they passed for yet another luxury pick and I truly believe he was only taken at that spot because other teams showed interest. So yes, he might turn out to be a good #3 receiver or even a good #2 at some point, but I sure would rather have good to great center play right now in which Humphrys would have provided. I'm sure Russ feels the same way.

To be fair we have not heard the Seahawks perspective on this. there might have been reasons why they did not pick CH. they might be picking best player available, that's what Holmgren used to do.. Eskridge might have been higher on their board it might have surprised them that he fell. they might have had another Center they liked better and missed him. This happens

If it was Pete Carrolls call then ok... but I still don't understand why most think Pete is taking total control? It could have been JS that made that call... can someone please explain that to me?

The whole best player available thing always bothered me. So you take a player you dont even need over available players of positions of weakness? I'll never understand that. I still think they took Eskridge because McVay showed some interest in him. As for Humphry, there was a large drop off at the position grade wise after he was chosen (its in the Eskridge draft thread somewhere), so i'm not sure who else they could have been eyeing up after he was gone.

Whatever, whats done is done. Russ just needs to realize he'll never have a good line under Pete Carroll no matter how much he begs.

I'm in agreement with you that the O line needs to be addressed. Look... the game is just brutal, and injuries are a problem throughout the NFL... they need to have great depth on the o-line to protect Wilson as well as the running backs, as he is getting older and more prone to injury, and I bet this year was a wakeup call for JS and Pete. they could get away with not having a great Oline for a while because Wilson is allusive and loves to create and throw on the run. but those days are gone not that he isn't allusive but because he is more prone to injury.



LTH