Does Macdonald keep Geno?

[projectorfreak]

I believe we could keep geno but with the right oline and oc as getting the ball out quick and hitting WR's in stride is bread and butter for many offenses we have faced that carved us up like Xmas hams People need to realize this ain't happenin overnight
Cool yer jets and expect this to take 2 to 5 years b4 ya start callin people out ummmmm Kay in my best south park Mr. mackie voice
We do need a QBOTF but sitting a year under the CBPOTY couldn't hurt any college player coming in to the most difficult job in all of sports and YES a few less taylor swift posts BY ALL THOSE DUDES THAT MADE THEM even you and you know who you are would be great as well but with 1 big game yet to play expect 5 more and i also heard a right wing political take I can't share here today I had not heard of before so yeah
Shut up about Taylor she is just fine without us harping on her as she doesn't have anything to do with this unless you got some info pics and hard a$$ cia evidence she does , I for one do not need to hear it lol
Go Hawks

 

[rjdriver]

I know I'm the outlier here, and I like Geno and all

But...

I just don't think we have a huge drop off in performance with Lock, and again, I'm not a Lock fanboy. I just see him with comparable potential to what Geno has delivered. A slight drop off? Sure. Just not enough to justify the $.

Where the huge chasm exists is in the defense. In other words, IMHO, using the capital gained with moving on from Geno to improve the defense would be an overall better ROI than the improvement we would realize by starting Smith over Lock (who I agree is marginally better).

Especially with Coach Mac at the helm.

Obviously either is a stopgap. We still endeavor to find a QBOTF as soon as we can.

Flame away....

 

[Parallax]

I think a lot of QBs could do as well as Geno for a lot less than his contract would require next year. The guy fell short of every incentive and he's just not that good. Nice fellow. Hope he does well somewhere. But not here.

If we could trade him, I'd take anything. A 7th rounder. Start a bidding war and try to get a 6th. Or just cut him.

Our cap situation is terrible next year. Pete did his best to mortgage the future. Should have moved on from him after the Russ trade. Wish we had the second round pick back rather than the ten game Williams rental. If I were the GM, I'd cut Geno, Adams, Diggs, Disley, all this year. Take the big cap hit and clear the books for 2025.

This year, take linemen in the draft. Build up the team in the trenches. That's what MacDonald will want. If a QB with potential falls, consider taking him. I'd be happy with Penix in the third round but not at 16 or even late in the first. Throws a beautiful ball but we saw in the Michigan game what happens when he's under the kind of pressure he'll face in the NFL. Need an extraordinary line to protect him and we don't have it.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I think a lot of QBs could do as well as Geno for a lot less than his contract would require next year. The guy fell short of every incentive and he's just not that good. Nice fellow. Hope he does well somewhere. But not here.

If we could trade him, I'd take anything. A 7th rounder. Start a bidding war and try to get a 6th. Or just cut him.

Our cap situation is terrible next year. Pete did his best to mortgage the future. Should have moved on from him after the Russ trade. Wish we had the second round pick back rather than the ten game Williams rental. If I were the GM, I'd cut Geno, Adams, Diggs, Disley, all this year. Take the big cap hit and clear the books for 2025.

This year, take linemen in the draft. Build up the team in the trenches. That's what MacDonald will want. If a QB with potential falls, consider taking him. I'd be happy with Penix in the third round but not at 16 or even late in the first. Throws a beautiful ball but we saw in the Michigan game what happens when he's under the kind of pressure he'll face in the NFL. Need an extraordinary line to protect him and we don't have it.

I've said pretty much the same over at Rob's Draft Blog and given the OL/DL talent is pretty deep this year it would be the smart thing to do. I'm happy we have a coach that comes from an organization that believes the trenches are a priority not safeties and linebackers like most every other NFL team.

 

[Lagartixa]

Some are treating Geno like he's a notch or two below where he's at. It could be one more year of Geno. It might be more if they don't love the QBs who make it to us (or the cost to trade up).

And what notch do you think he is?

You weren't asking me, but I'll give my reply since @BirdsCommaAngry hasn't replied yet.

In the bad stretches over the last two seasons, Smith was a middle-of-the-pack NFL QB with a below-average-for-a-QB cap hit. In the good stretches, Smith was a top-ten QB with a below-average-for-a-QB cap hit. That contract is an immensely valuable property for teams anywhere in the success cycle, whether it's to keep the team competitive through a rebuild, to help the team through the final steps to the Promised Land of grasping the Lombardi Trophy, or anything in between.

I know the talking-head mediots (and their many parrots) constantly screech that you just can't win a title without a top-top-tier QB, but history doesn't support that. It seems pretty clear to me that a team with a good-but-not-great QB with a cap hit 40% (or more) lower than the top-top-tier guys has an opportunity to build a stronger team overall and win titles.

Geno Smith's age makes it clear he's not the "quarterback of the future" for the Seahawks, but with the 16th pick and no second-round pick in the 2024 draft, the Seahawks are extremely unlikely to be able to get a quarterback of the future who might end up becoming a top-top-tier guy. If I were in charge, I'd be looking for a younger guy with a chance of being "the next Geno Smith": a QB who can end up ranked, say, between the lower half of the top ten and the upper half of the next ten (sixth to 15th or so) in productivity, but without the giant cap hits a big-name QB brings. That could be a not-regarded-as-top-tier rookie who might be available to the Seahawks (tho' I hope they go DT in the first round), or it could be another guy like Smith who was once a starter, has had his stock fall, and is now kicking around the league as a backup, but that the Seahawks' talent-evaluation personnel believe can play at an above-league-average level as a starter in the NFL. It'll be interesting to see if Schneider and his staff genuinely believe Lock is that kind of guy. I haven't seen enough from him to want to replace Smith with him now, but Seahawks management knows a lot more about both of those guys than I do.

Despite their 4-13 record, the Cardinals showed a surprising amount of promise under their new head coach in 2023, but I'm not in the least bit worried about the Cardinals as division rivals in the near future because this next season is the one when Kyler Murray's contract extension kicks in. Murray's cap number for 2024 is over $51M, good for over 20% of the Cardinals' cap. The Cardinals are very unlikely to be able to construct a solid roster around Murray for 2024, so the chance of him living up to that gigantic portion of the cap in 2024 is very, very low. It's more likely that early next offseason, people will be talking about whether the Cardinals should take the mere $13M in dead 2025 cap by designating Murray as a post-June-1 (2025) cut (with another $20.2 in dead 2026 cap) to get the $32.6M in 2025 cap savings and start again.

If there were no salary cap, I'd be right there with the talking-head mediots and their many parrots, agreeing that a team should do whatever is necessary to get a top-tier QB. But because there is a salary cap and the QB market has gotten to the point where top QB contracts are taking up a fifth or more of their respective teams' cap space, I believe there are other routes to success, and potentially to more-sustainable success.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think a lot of QBs could do as well as Geno for a lot less than his contract would require next year. The guy fell short of every incentive and he's just not that good. Nice fellow. Hope he does well somewhere. But not here.

If we could trade him, I'd take anything. A 7th rounder. Start a bidding war and try to get a 6th. Or just cut him.

Our cap situation is terrible next year. Pete did his best to mortgage the future. Should have moved on from him after the Russ trade. Wish we had the second round pick back rather than the ten game Williams rental. If I were the GM, I'd cut Geno, Adams, Diggs, Disley, all this year. Take the big cap hit and clear the books for 2025.

This year, take linemen in the draft. Build up the team in the trenches. That's what MacDonald will want. If a QB with potential falls, consider taking him. I'd be happy with Penix in the third round but not at 16 or even late in the first. Throws a beautiful ball but we saw in the Michigan game what happens when he's under the kind of pressure he'll face in the NFL. Need an extraordinary line to protect him and we don't have it.

The problem with Geno is he is at a level that is not easily replicable. He's ranges from bottom of the top 10 to top 15ish, I'd probably place him at around 12ish. Well over half the NFL teams are fielding QB's worse than Geno.

The reason why this is an issue is if you're trying to rebuild, this is the type of QB that'll keep you at the .500 level or slightly above. It also puts you in an awkward position where you can't justify replacing him, but you also have a QB that isn't going to be leading you to the promised land unless you have a psycho mode defense.

 

[keasley45]

And what notch do you think he is?

Also wasnt asked directly, but he finished the year ranked 13th, with an OC who was let go, an O line that finished the season 27th and that was a MASH unit all year, and a running game that was 29th. To say nothing for a defense that rarely gave the O opportunities.

Last year, he finished 9th.

So with 2 years worth of data, with both years relying on Waldron calling plays, a horrible o line, little running game and crap for defense, if you average the two years, hes been the 11th best QB in the league.

Thats not opinion. Thats where he finished despite the poor support noted, which is also fact.

His salary rank? 12th among starters.

Hes literally the definition of 'good value', and just outside the 'top 10' category.

I dont know who these 'other' qbs are that can just come and do what Geno has. I posted in another thread that there isnt another qb in the league that performed as well as Geno did with the running game and O line he had. Not one. And thats also fact.

Who?
Gardener Minshew?
Joshua Dobbs?
Justin Fields?
Alex OConnel?
Matt Jones
D Ridder?

Drew Lock? I don't see how anyone coukd watch the two games he played last year and think we'd be better off with him or even as good. Drew has talent but is still raw, predisposed to being fooled by simple defense, and doesn't play the game with awareness remotely close to Geno's. O love his arm talent, and willingness to sling the ball. But from a reliable xs and os perspective? Mac's first likely priority on offense will be making sure we are a reliable and consistent unit. That's Geno all day over Lock. And I have nothing against Drew at all. I think he's still got potential.

Thats the quality of 'starter' that finished below Geno last year thats likely available to us without a stupid trade( fields being the exception) And none of them with the exception of Minshew finished close to Geno or have ever posted back to back seasons like his last 2.

Gardener Minshew is going to win us more games than Geno? I think not.

So to move on from him is to literally say ' winning isn't important'. His salary isn't out of whack and is priced exactly where his performance has been, with a pretty pathetic supporting cast in blocking and rushing. He is the most logical player to have at the position given his familiarity with the team and rapport with his offensive teammates.

And MacDonald is the guy JS picked not just for his ability to scheme and coach defense. There's a pretty good article that documents his knowledge of offense based on everything he's learned in designing ways to stop high powered units like SF and LA. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he feels as though he's stepped into Christmas morning with the players we have on O... especially Geno, because Mac is a guy who obviously gets complimentary ball, and knows exactly how to leverage players on the O side to exploit today's defenses. And we have way more than enough in the cupboard to do that.

We've just been playing stupid offense for the last few years under Waldron.

This team is set on O, save for O line. Focus on the D and grab a QB if one falls to you tah you like, but not to start in 2024.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

The problem with Geno is he is at a level that is not easily replicable. He's ranges from bottom of the top 10 to top 15ish, I'd probably place him at around 12ish. Well over half the NFL teams are fielding QB's worse than Geno.

The reason why this is an issue is if you're trying to rebuild, this is the type of QB that'll keep you at the .500 level or slightly above. It also puts you in an awkward position where you can't justify replacing him, but you also have a QB that isn't going to be leading you to the promised land unless you have a psycho mode defense.

In other words purgatory. Rip the band aid off and try and go with Lock and rookie quarterback if possible.

 

[Smellyman]

Geno played great behind a trainwreck of an OL this year. The healthier OL last year made for a much better year. Same with K9. Behind an OL like in Detroit, Geno>Goff.
Not saying he is the future, if Schneider sees an opportunity to get a QB he loves whether the first round or third take it.

 

[Smellyman]

I dont know who these 'other' qbs are that can just come and do what Geno has. I posted in another thread that there isnt another qb in the league that performed as well as Geno did with the running game and O line he had. Not one. And thats also fact.

Who?
Gardener Minshew?
Joshua Dobbs?
Justin Fields?
Alex OConnel?
Matt Jones
D Ridder?

Kyler Murray?
Trevor Lawrence?
Zach Wilson?
Sam Howell?
Ryan Tannehill?
Will Levis?
Derek Carr?
Jimmy Garappolo?
Daniel Jones?
Kirk Cousins?

There are a lot of QBs that I would take Geno over.

But draft a QB if John thinks they could be better. To keep a Pete mantra, Always Compete.

 

[keasley45]

Kyler Murray?
Trevor Lawrence?
Zach Wilson?
Sam Howell?
Ryan Tannehill?
Will Levis?
Derek Carr?
Jimmy Garappolo?
Daniel Jones?
Kirk Cousins?

There are a lot of QBs that I would take Geno over.

But draft a QB if John thinks they could be better. To keep a Pete mantra, Always Compete.

You aren't getting Cousins for less than what Geno is making. Nor Lawrence. Nor Murray. Nor Carr. They aren't realistic options.

The rest of that list?

Zach Wilson? Sam Howell? Daniel Jones?

Post their stats... any of the typical metrics, and let's see how they look.

Respect your opinion, though.

 

[Smellyman]

You aren't getting Cousins for less than what Geno is making. Nor Lawrence. Nor Murray. Nor Carr. They aren't realistic options.

The rest of that list?

Zach Wilson? Sam Howell? Daniel Jones?

Post their stats... any of the typical metrics, and let's see how they look.

Respect your opinion, though.

I think we are arguing the same thing aren't we? I wouldn't take any of those over Geno. I just expanded you list.

my wording may have been weird. I wouldn't take my list or yours. I would rather have Geno

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

keasley and Lartartixa nailed it. Projecting him as a top 10-12 QB seems like the best bet. To me, that's a little above QB purgatory but I get the concern. I don't think anyone should be ruling out drafting a QB in the 1st round just because we have him. On the flipside, Geno's good enough to where we can be more patient with how drafts go when going about getting a potential long term starter. Maybe this isn't everyone's preferred QB situation but holy cow is it workable (and so much better than some other situations, like NYG with Daniel Jones).

 

[Ozzy]

Depends on how much Macdonald needs for the defense to get right. If he feels like he needs a ton they may use some of the money they save by cutting Geno. If he thinks the defense is close they probably roll with Geno another year and draft someone

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think you have to keep him for one more year. I don't see any alternative to it. Fill some holes in the draft and off season and maybe have a QB waiting in the wings if there's one they like.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

If they draft a QB, let him learn under Geno. Geno might not be SB level, but he would be a hell of a mentor, and I think he would embrace it.
Look how he was with Lock. You don't see that all the time. A lot of great QB's learned from the bench their first year or two.

 

[keasley45]

I think we are arguing the same thing aren't we? I wouldn't take any of those over Geno. I just expanded you list.

my wording may have been weird. I wouldn't take my list or yours. I would rather have Geno

Yup. We are. Misread your post.

 

[WarHawks]

To all those who think we can't replace Geno easily, are you seriously saying no other qb can come in and score 1 td per game and a couple hundred yards? Because that's what Geno offers. I get keeping him a year to mentor a qbotf, but pretending his production is irreplaceable at less cost is just absurd.

 

[JustTheTip]

Geno isn't terrible. In the right system he can put in the work and get you enough wins to get into the dance. With a strong defense, and a solid running game, he can manage well enough after that.

I'm still convinced he was injured worse than we knew about in that Giants game and didn't get right until the last few games, which was also compounded by getting assassinated by Aaron Donald.

Not a fan of Geno at all but I am good with rolling with him if there is a solid succession plan.

 

[sutz]

Lock is not under contract after March. Geno is.