Darrell Bevell linked to BYU coaching job

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Watching people defend Bevell is like watching an insane college sociology experiment. For the past few years, our offense has been predicated on Bevell calling a play, the play breaking down because it sucks, and Russ running for his life and occasionally completing a pass along the way. If the Seahawks are doing ANYTHING well on offense statistically, it's not because Darrell Bevell called a brilliant play - it's because Russell Wilson made up his own play when Bevell's inevitably failed. I'm gobsmacked by the fact that people are actually crediting Bevell with that.

I simply cannot imagine how anyone can watch our games, see what we're all seeing, and feel that the Bevell-Wilson partnership is a cool, collected, strategic, premeditated killer offense like Rodgers, Brady or vintage Peyton. It's total panic and hysteria at all times. Mike Tyson said "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Well, on better than half of offensive plays in the last 3 years, we act like we've been punched in the mouth, and like an inexperienced boxer, we've started swinging blindly back at the defense. Thank Christ Russell is athletic and elusive enough to stay on his feet until Dougie or Kearse can shed coverage, because if he had Peyton Manning mobility back there we'd be winless. Peyton made it work in the day because he had a plan, but to watch Russell try to make hay with Bevell's scheming is to watch an episode of MacGyver. Bevell sets him up to fail, and then, sometimes, Russell figures out how to overcome it.

Some people see that - and the fact that it took a half a season to plan around an OL that can't pass protect for 2-Mississippi, and they see the red zone stuff, the bubble screens, the boneheaded 3rd down calls - and they just can't get enough Bevell.

I think a really good indicator is how you can do at scoring, given one good shot. We call these 2-point conversions. We've had 5 this year, and have converted just one. The attempts at creating confusion for the defense are simply laughable, and we are chronically unable to get 2-3 yards when we clearly feel we really need it.

For what it's worth, I think true Bevell defenders are 1/3 of their ranks, while the remaining majority are people who simply think Bevell detractors are stupid people, and that they can demonstrate their football superiority over these supposedly stupid people by taking a Jim Jones pact to defend Bevell against them at all costs. It's almost religious; "you have to trust in HIM, Darrell Bevell always has a plan."

Or maybe the people who defend Bevell just have a different opinion to you? Have you considered that?

Where's that thread were people suggested alternatives?

People should go read it and then have a good long think about their take on DB.

Put your money where your mouth is.

If forced to choose an new OC, back to the wall, who do you want, and why.

I've spent a long time thinking about this and struggled to come up with one legit candidate. There isn't anyone out there who stands out. Which is kind of the point. Everyone who wants a change -- they assume things will be better. And you know what they say about the word 'assume'.

 

[The Outfield]

I've spent a long time thinking about this and struggled to come up with one legit candidate. There isn't anyone out there who stands out. Which is kind of the point. Everyone who wants a change -- they assume things will be better. And you know what they say about the word 'assume'.

That's my worry. Assuming things will instantly be better. It seems some people here forget the plays that were called that got us to these playoff games over the past 3 years. Sure he obviously has made bad calls, but there's a lot of good calls in there as well.

 

[Scottemojo]

Watching people defend Bevell is like watching an insane college sociology experiment. For the past few years, our offense has been predicated on Bevell calling a play, the play breaking down because it sucks, and Russ running for his life and occasionally completing a pass along the way. If the Seahawks are doing ANYTHING well on offense statistically, it's not because Darrell Bevell called a brilliant play - it's because Russell Wilson made up his own play when Bevell's inevitably failed. I'm gobsmacked by the fact that people are actually crediting Bevell with that.

I simply cannot imagine how anyone can watch our games, see what we're all seeing, and feel that the Bevell-Wilson partnership is a cool, collected, strategic, premeditated killer offense like Rodgers, Brady or vintage Peyton. It's total panic and hysteria at all times. Mike Tyson said "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Well, on better than half of offensive plays in the last 3 years, we act like we've been punched in the mouth, and like an inexperienced boxer, we've started swinging blindly back at the defense. Thank Christ Russell is athletic and elusive enough to stay on his feet until Dougie or Kearse can shed coverage, because if he had Peyton Manning mobility back there we'd be winless. Peyton made it work in the day because he had a plan, but to watch Russell try to make hay with Bevell's scheming is to watch an episode of MacGyver. Bevell sets him up to fail, and then, sometimes, Russell figures out how to overcome it.

Some people see that - and the fact that it took a half a season to plan around an OL that can't pass protect for 2-Mississippi, and they see the red zone stuff, the bubble screens, the boneheaded 3rd down calls - and they just can't get enough Bevell.

I think a really good indicator is how you can do at scoring, given one good shot. We call these 2-point conversions. We've had 5 this year, and have converted just one. The attempts at creating confusion for the defense are simply laughable, and we are chronically unable to get 2-3 yards when we clearly feel we really need it.

For what it's worth, I think true Bevell defenders are 1/3 of their ranks, while the remaining majority are people who simply think Bevell detractors are stupid people, and that they can demonstrate their football superiority over these supposedly stupid people by taking a Jim Jones pact to defend Bevell against them at all costs. It's almost religious; "you have to trust in HIM, Darrell Bevell always has a plan."

Or maybe the people who defend Bevell just have a different opinion to you? Have you considered that?

Where's that thread were people suggested alternatives?

People should go read it and then have a good long think about their take on DB.

Put your money where your mouth is.

If forced to choose an new OC, back to the wall, who do you want, and why.

I've spent a long time thinking about this and struggled to come up with one legit candidate. There isn't anyone out there who stands out. Which is kind of the point. Everyone who wants a change -- they assume things will be better. And you know what they say about the word 'assume'.

I have.
Tom Herman stands out to me as a forward thinking spread offense guy who, unlike most spread style OCs, gets the importance of a great run game. Wooing him would be a challenge.
Ed Warriner, also from the Ohio State tree, has the chops of being a known offensive line coach. Similar to Herman, he would emphasize run with a spread style offense.
And while that is far from a comprehensive list, it sums up what I think is the future for Russell Wilson in Seattle. Spread offense with a short to deep emphasis, which would complement, not hinder, Russell's deep to short tendencies. As much as I have always liked an I formation fullback style of offense that builds play action, I think the modern game is about timing and rhythm, with a versatile jack of all trades H-back being of more value in short yards than a traditional fullback anymore.

Caveat: I throw those names out there not because I am sold on those guys personally, just that they represent the style I think both fits and marries perfectly the traditional offense and the spread timing offense, while still avoiding air raid tendencies that dominate college football.

 

[justafan]

My problem with the offense is execution.Its not always the OCs fault usually the players just have to do the job the way they are told to do it.But you cant fire the team so someone has to be accountable and take the fall.

I was ready to write DB off after watching this team screw up running basic plays that they learned in high school.They turned things around after Ml called out the team.

Players have posted Bevel finally learned how to beat the blitz.He has always had these plays in the book.I would bet my house he has always had sight adjusted hot routes and audibles to get out of these plays, the players just need to to make the right reads and do their job.

My problem with people people calling out playcalls is the only people who know why a play was called are the people on the team.Even the most intelligent fans dont know if the play was executed the way it was drawn up.Did the line calls get made,did the audible get called,did Wilson get the team out of a bad play into the right one or visa versa,did someone miss the blitz and not run the hot route,who missed the sight adjustment on the route or throw?

Right now a hot word in the debate is situational awareness.I think most of our opinions suffer from this,mine as much as anyones.Fans can make some semi educated wild ass guesses but we arent on the inside,we just dont have all the facts.

As much as we like to think we know more about the game we just dont have all the facts from watching the game.In fact the more I have learned about the game I find the less I know.

 

[RichNhansom]

This is exactly the type of response that makes me wish all Darrell Bevell threads were in the shack...

So you are saying his situational awareness has been spot on the first 10 games this season?

No. I don't recall ever making that statement.

It was a question, not an assumption on my part. My bad for the weird wording.

That's cool.

To answer the question, I don't think his situational awareness has been spot on. I have issues with Bevell at times. I am not pro-Bevell so much as I'm just not anti-Bevell and pining for change.

But I don't think some fans realise how productive our offense has been in comparison to the other O's in the league over the last few years. There's too much focus on what doesn't work and not enough focus on the good stuff. I think people almost expect a perfection that doesn't exist. Look at Brady and NE vs Denver or Aaron Rodgers' last few games. There isn't an offense in the league that has its way all of the time.

A case in point -- Seattle's passing game just won a vital home game against Pittsburgh on a day when the running game was so-so and the defense a mess. And in the same week people aren't talking about Bevell's obvious contribution to that win, they're posting GIF's celebrating the fact someone has decided to make an unfounded rumour about him possibly interesting BYU.[/quote]

Thank you English you pretty much nailed my feelings on it as well.

Big thing people really should consider is how badly the 9ers wanted Greg Roman (9ers O-coord) gone. Virtually every complaint you hear here is a reproduction of the webzone. Well he left this last off season and all their problems aren't solved. In fact Kaep has been benched for some of the worst QB play I have ever seen and will likely be gone this off season.

Do I think that would happen to Russ? No but we don't know if he would progress or regress so as long as Pete believes Bevell is the right guy, I am on board with him.

One in the same. If Pete decided to move on I would be excited to see how things change but very cautiously optimistic and wouldn't be the least surprised if Wilson digressed some. At least for a while.

Some may want to consider the possibility that Pete might Know just a little more about the situation than they do. Maybe trust in Pete is in order here.

 

[marko358]

One of the many things that drives me insane about this offense is how we never seem to take advantage of a situation where the opposing team gets a defender injured. You see the likes of Brady, Manning, and Rodgers immediately pick on the inferior back-up player that comes in and we don't. Why doesn't DB draw up plays to give us the edge in these situations? Is it because he is on the sidelines and can't even see when an opposing player is injured? Why isn't he in the booth like most OC's?

 

[Mick063]

I am not an expert on hiring offensive coordinators. It is dumb to expect me to come up with an alternative. All I know is that Bevell doesn't meet my expectations as a fan.

If he were to leave tomorrow, I'm sure JS and PC would find a replacement. I don't care who it is. It is someone different than Bevell, selected by PC and JS. Good enough for me.

 

[RichNhansom]

My problem with the offense is execution.Its not always the OCs fault usually the players just have to do the job the way they are told to do it.But you cant fire the team so someone has to be accountable and take the fall.

I was ready to write DB off after watching this team screw up running basic plays that they learned in high school.They turned things around after Ml called out the team.

Players have posted Bevel finally learned how to beat the blitz.He has always had these plays in the book.I would bet my house he has always had sight adjusted hot routes and audibles to get out of these plays, the players just need to to make the right reads and do their job.

My problem with people people calling out playcalls is the only people who know why a play was called are the people on the team.Even the most intelligent fans dont know if the play was executed the way it was drawn up.Did the line calls get made,did the audible get called,did Wilson get the team out of a bad play into the right one or visa versa,did someone miss the blitz and not run the hot route,who missed the sight adjustment on the route or throw?

Right now a hot word in the debate is situational awareness.I think most of our opinions suffer from this,mine as much as anyones.Fans can make some semi educated wild ass guesses but we arent on the inside,we just dont have all the facts.

As much as we like to think we know more about the game we just dont have all the facts from watching the game.In fact the more I have learned about the game I find the less I know.

Very good post jaf

 

[RichNhansom]

I am not an expert on hiring offensive coordinators. It is dumb to expect me to come up with an alternative. All I know is that Bevell doesn't meet my expectations as a fan.

If he were to leave tomorrow, I'm sure JS and PC would find a replacement. I don't care who it is. It is someone different than Bevell, selected by PC and JS. Good enough for me.

Well is it really good enough for you? I mean they selected Bevell and have re-selected him every off season so far.

I really am curious why people think this is all Bevell? Do they believe that he is holding Wilson back and that every play is being executed as drawn up?

Is it possible that Wilson is still growing and isn't quite at the level of guys like Brady and Manning? It's not an insult. It is likely a very big part of some of our struggles.

Consider most QB's don't become elite their first 4 years if ever and then consider what might be happening in that growth process.

You should also consider that Pete wants a certain style of offense that controls the ball and eats up clock. For all we know Bevell finally convinced Pete to let him open up the offense. What we have seen the last few games has been significantly different and that change came from someone. Do you think a defensive minded coach like Pete is drawing up this new game plan or maybe Bevell is getting some more rope to either improve the offense or hang himself. So far it looks very improved.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Tom Herman stands out to me as a forward thinking spread offense guy who, unlike most spread style OCs, gets the importance of a great run game. Wooing him would be a challenge.
Ed Warriner, also from the Ohio State tree, has the chops of being a known offensive line coach. Similar to Herman, he would emphasize run with a spread style offense.
And while that is far from a comprehensive list, it sums up what I think is the future for Russell Wilson in Seattle. Spread offense with a short to deep emphasis, which would complement, not hinder, Russell's deep to short tendencies. As much as I have always liked an I formation fullback style of offense that builds play action, I think the modern game is about timing and rhythm, with a versatile jack of all trades H-back being of more value in short yards than a traditional fullback anymore.

Caveat: I throw those names out there not because I am sold on those guys personally, just that they represent the style I think both fits and marries perfectly the traditional offense and the spread timing offense, while still avoiding air raid tendencies that dominate college football.

Tom Herman has just in the last couple of days signed a contract extension to stay at Houston. I suspect he isn't getting $2.8m a year to be Seattle's OC, or leaving this current post for that gig either.

Ed Warriner? Did you see the Michigan State game recently??

Neither man has ever coached in the pro's. Not even as an assistant as far as I'm aware. Pure college backgrounds. Would be a big jump to suddenly coach the offense of a NFL contender, with huge expectations.

This is the problem really. Do people seriously believe the current Ohio State co-offensive coordinator is going to do a better job, with zero NFL experience having just witnessed one of the most inept, season-ending offensive performances against MSU?

I am not an expert on hiring offensive coordinators. It is dumb to expect me to come up with an alternative. All I know is that Bevell doesn't meet my expectations as a fan.

If he were to leave tomorrow, I'm sure JS and PC would find a replacement. I don't care who it is. It is someone different than Bevell, selected by PC and JS. Good enough for me.

They chose Bevell and constantly back their man.

Why isn't that good enough for you?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Where's that thread were people suggested alternatives?

People should go read it and then have a good long think about their take on DB.

Put your money where your mouth is.

If forced to choose an new OC, back to the wall, who do you want, and why.

Paul Chryst. Experienced with our QB, at the very least, and some NFL experience.

Also, and this is for Rob, given the increasing prevalence of college systems in the NFL, I'm not as leery about taking on such a candidate for the NFL as I used to be.

 

[HawkGA]

Just curious (honest question) back in the days of Gus Bradley, I assume lots of people were excited for him to move on. Was it immediately obvious BEFORE he moved on who the next DC would be?

 

[mrt144]

95% of football fans hate their offensive coordinator. It's' kinda funny.

While true, doesn't negate that there are some poignant critiques of OCs.

 

[bigskydoc]

Players have posted Bevel finally learned how to beat the blitz.He has always had these plays in the book.I would bet my house he has always had sight adjusted hot routes and audibles to get out of these plays, the players just need to to make the right reads and do their job.

Wilson has always struggled against the masked/delayed blitz or the fake blitz. He has performed admirably in situations where blitz is shown and brought. Is this because Russ suddenly falls apart when the defense shows one thing then brings another? No it is because Bevel's remedial and ridiculous route concepts do not allow for post-snap adjustments by the QB.

We get beat on the disguised blitz because Bevel's route concepts do not tend to use a checkdown receiver except for the RB squirting out of the backfield. He can't do that when he needs to stay in the backfield to block so on those delayed/ disguised blitzes we have no receiver for Russ to dump the ball off to so he either runs, throws it out of bounds, or takes the sack.

If the defense shows blitz, and the players identify it and audible to their blitz beater routes, but the defense doesn't bring the blitz, Bevel's blitz beater route concepts leave no good option for Russ. The routes are well covered by the defense because they are ALL predictable, quick routes that are easily covered. So Russ has to run for it, pass for a short/ no gain, throw it out of bounds, or take a sack. He just doesn't have the options.

The success against the Pittsburgh blitz came because they really didn't disguise it. They showed what they were going to do and did it. Bevel's concepts work well when the defense shows it's hand, not so well when they disguise their intentions.

My problem with people people calling out playcalls is the only people who know why a play was called are the people on the team.Even the most intelligent fans dont know if the play was executed the way it was drawn up.Did the line calls get made,did the audible get called,did Wilson get the team out of a bad play into the right one or visa versa,did someone miss the blitz and not run the hot route,who missed the sight adjustment on the route or throw?

...Fans can make some semi educated wild ass guesses but we arent on the inside,we just dont have all the facts.

As much as we like to think we know more about the game we just dont have all the facts from watching the game..

Anyone can watch the All-22 and see the concepts that Bevel uses on specific plays simply don't match the situation. From calling for all go routes when we only need 3 yards to close out a game to bringing in a heavy run package when we need 15 yards to close out a game. It is blatantly obvious that he tries to outsmart his opponent. He has to be thinking, "they will never see it coming," but of course they do because they have watched the tape of Bevel's games and know that is exactly what Bevel does.

On the All-22, you can see exactly what I am talking about regarding the route concepts not working when the defense disguises its intentions. You can watch for the disguised blitz and see that the routes don't leave a check down option. You can watch the defense fake a blitz and see how the receivers respond.

It doesn't take the All-22 to see that Bevel refuses to take advantage of an identified weakness in the defense. He will hold it in his pocket for a time in the game when "he really needs it". Okay that is more of a style thing, but IMHO when you identify a weakness you hit it again and again and again and again and again until the defense has to adjust and opens up other weaknesses.

-bsd

 

[bigskydoc]

I'm going to start one of those online petitions and fund drives to have Siouxhawk meet with the BYU admin and talk to them about the Amazing Bevel the Devel.

- bsd

 

[Hasselbeck]

Where's that thread were people suggested alternatives?

People should go read it and then have a good long think about their take on DB.

So because the Average Joe fan doesn't know who a good OC alternative is that means we should keep Darrell Bevell?

Bit of a straw man argument there.

 

[Hasselbeck]

By the way Bevell's daughter is a softball commit at BYU. So.. it would definitely put him closer to family.

He was also set to play at BYU until they landed some guy named Ty Detmer

 

[bigskydoc]

Say I go to the store, buy a carton of milk from dairy X, take it home and drink it to find out it is spoiled

I go back a week later and the same thing happens.

Over the course of a few years, I find out that, despite an occasional good carton of milk, sometimes 2 or 3 good cartons in a row, more often than not the milk from this particular dairy is bad.

Now, I don't have to know which dairy provides consistently good milk to know that Dairy X produces substandard milk and it is reasonable for me to ask my professional grocer to find a better dairy.

Further, the fact that I got a few really good cartons of milk doesn't mean that the overall product produced by Dairy X is good or even acceptable.

- bsd

(Cue "That guy". "Who ever said anything about milk? We are talking about an OC here.")

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Where's that thread were people suggested alternatives?

People should go read it and then have a good long think about their take on DB.

So because the Average Joe fan doesn't know who a good OC alternative is that means we should keep Darrell Bevell?

Bit of a straw man argument there.

Nope. That's not what I said at all. And you know it.

Everyone assumes there's a better alternative. That might not be the case. That's the point I was making. Simple.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Where's that thread were people suggested alternatives?

People should go read it and then have a good long think about their take on DB.

So because the Average Joe fan doesn't know who a good OC alternative is that means we should keep Darrell Bevell?

Bit of a straw man argument there.

Nope. That's not what I said at all. And you know it.

Everyone assumes there's a better alternative. That might not be the case. That's the point I was making. Simple.

Going to be a lot of coaching changes in a month, saying there's no better alternative out there on December 5th is an early reach.

Also the offense has set the world on fire against two of the worst defenses in football, lets see how they fare against a legit defense tomorrow and to close out the rest of the year.

I'm also skeptical Bevell is replaced unless he takes another job for the record.