Can Russell rewire his head to "take the layups"?

[olyfan63]

Kurt Warner lays it out here. Short version: Russell, take the open layups and move the chains. Stop trying to be "special" every play. Using the Rams playoff game as an example, Warner shows exactly where Russell has difficulty making reads and knowing where to go with the ball quickly. I honestly have no idea if this is something Russell can fix. He would really have to rewire his head and his whole approach to the game.

[youtube]E6BUU_FZAPE[/youtube]

The way I'm understanding it... Russell didn't come up as a QB making multiple Xs and Os lightning speed pre-snap and immediate post-snap reads every play; he has his own instinctive reads he looks for, and his mobility and sandlot instincts and throwing accuracy masked his deficiencies on the hyper-geeky Xs and Os side. Now he has to reinvent himself to be successful in the Waldron offense, which requires these things, and it's HARD for him to unlearn and rewire all his mental habits. It would be hard for anyone.

It's not like Russell can't read defenses at all. Two of Russell's most golden moments involved clutch reads. That 4th-and-7 play in the 2013 NFCCG where Russell saw that SF D-Line jumped, and all the receivers and Russell instantly adjusted, unspoken automatic, to run 4 verts and Russell hit Kearse for the TD -- priceless! Then there was the walkoff TD throw in the next year's NFCCG, vs the Packers--Even after 5 picks, Russell read "no safety" and had the confidence (and amnesia) to throw a strike to Kearse to send the Hawks to SB49.

Do people agree with Kurt Warner's take on Russell and the Seahawks offense, and is self-reinvention of this magnitude something Russell is capable of at this point in his career?

 

[sutz]

That's a good question. He's gotten away with the hero ball for a lot of years, but it not working any more. I have posted it a few times lately, Russ seems to look deep first and maybe then look down to the shorter stuff, regardless of how the play is seemingly designed.

If Russ can't learn to take the underneath throws and shorter routes, we're doomed. I think we all saw some of that Sunday in Washington. DK was open several times, but Russ either apparently didn't see him or chose not to look.

Tough call, but Russ ball isn't working, the league has caught up to him. Maybe the new OC is doing his job and more receivers are open than we think, but Russ is choosing to try for the more difficult longer throws.

Finger or not, Russ has sucked since he came back from IR.

 

[classicaaron]

i mean the film doesnt lie. alot of the reads he showed high school players should be making. sure the windows close alot faster in the nfl but the read itself is exactly the same. the fact he isnt completing these plays its extremely alarming.

 

[kf3339]

RW is a product of PC's backward thinking in regards to the position and the offense. Asking him to change his mindset after 10 years in the league just isn't happening. He will always bend to the hero ball mentality, which is why he needs a new start with another team and coaching philosophy.

It should have happened several years ago when teams would have bid heavily for him. Now he still will be a targeted trade asset for some teams, but the return won't be an he same to the Seahawks.

 

[Fudwamper]

First three examples were hot garbage. Especially with the third being "I know most teams teach the read this way, but I do it this way".

 

[olyfan63]

First three examples were hot garbage. Especially with the third being "I know most teams teach the read this way, but I do it this way".

If Warner says he prefers to do the read a certain way, can anyone really argue this point with an NFL MVP and Super Bowl Champion? All he's saying is that he prefers the 12 yard gain layup over the 6 yard gain layup, and to him they are the same difficulty/risk. Russell took the 6 yard layup in that example. I think it really just shows there are different schools of thought and several ways to do different reads. Warner took 3 teams to the Super Bowl as a carry-the-team QB, where Russell took the Seahawks to the Owl twice when we had the #1 defense and a top 5 run game.

I recall the first few years Russell was with the Hawks, he and Pete and Bevell would talk about "looking for the explosive plays first". There was also lots of talk about hitting passes to the outside toward the sideline and up the field.

It seems that 8+ years in, opposing defenses started figuring Russell out, that he does his reads a certain way, and defenses adapted. Russell hasn't really counter-adapted. The Rams playoff game was a great example, because the Rams have seen lots of Russell and knew how to scheme against him. Russell had no answer. Instead of knowing what the Rams would run and how to read it and defeat it, Russell looked absolutely baffled.

About the 5th example in, roughly, Warner showed where there were 2 "layups" available, one from a pre-snap read, and instead Russell threw into traffic and it was picked.

"Russell's way" worked for a long time. but the NFL caught up with him, and there came a point (age) where his elusiveness could no longer cover for his deficiencies in reading certain defenses,

It's HARD to make changes to read differently after 8+ years. NFL QB is perhaps the hardest position in all of sports to play really well.

Perhaps Russell can add a few more reads to his repertoire to defeat the schemes defenses are throwing at him. Not only does he have to do that, he has to let go of the hero-ball first mentality he often shows. Such a beautiful drive vs. Washington Football Team at the end of the game. Taking what the D gave him, then being alert to a busted coverage for the TD. But, on the 2 point conversion, he reverted right back to the baffled, confused, late with the ball Russell.

 

[chris98251]

I think it was Martz re programed Kurt Warner with the Kill Kurt drills, wasn't to hurt him but to force him to read and react faster, the results changed Kurts Career.

Could have been a coach before that I am going off memory but is what developed his quick read release.

Maybe something could be done in that arena to push Russell to change some habits and react better.

 

[sutz]

I think it was Martz re programed Kurt Warner with the Kill Kurt drills, wasn't to hurt him but to force him to read and react faster, the results changed Kurts Career.

Could have been a coach before that I am going off memory but is what developed his quick read release.

Maybe something could be done in that arena to push Russell to change some habits and react better.

Warner spent a year or two in Arena football. I think that helped him develop those 'quick read/release' skills.

 

[xray]

Wilson has been in a " must win " mode since his return . He doesn't want 5 yard completions and he is ignoring the opportunities when he has them . He isn't wired to take the gimmies . Wilson's over-confidence in himself has become a detriment in his play . " Mr. Unlimited " is very limited and he can't accept it . His repaired finger might be part of it ; but it sure seems to be more than that .

 

[Optimus25]

We need a WCO one time with Russ and see what happens.

 

[scutterhawk]

First three examples were hot garbage. Especially with the third being "I know most teams teach the read this way, but I do it this way".

If Warner says he prefers to do the read a certain way, can anyone really argue this point with an NFL MVP and Super Bowl Champion? All he's saying is that he prefers the 12 yard gain layup over the 6 yard gain layup, and to him they are the same difficulty/risk. Russell took the 6 yard layup in that example. I think it really just shows there are different schools of thought and several ways to do different reads. Warner took 3 teams to the Super Bowl as a carry-the-team QB, where Russell took the Seahawks to the Owl twice when we had the #1 defense and a top 5 run game.

I recall the first few years Russell was with the Hawks, he and Pete and Bevell would talk about "looking for the explosive plays first". There was also lots of talk about hitting passes to the outside toward the sideline and up the field.

It seems that 8+ years in, opposing defenses started figuring Russell out, that he does his reads a certain way, and defenses adapted. Russell hasn't really counter-adapted. The Rams playoff game was a great example, because the Rams have seen lots of Russell and knew how to scheme against him. Russell had no answer. Instead of knowing what the Rams would run and how to read it and defeat it, Russell looked absolutely baffled.

About the 5th example in, roughly, Warner showed where there were 2 "layups" available, one from a pre-snap read, and instead Russell threw into traffic and it was picked.

"Russell's way" worked for a long time. but the NFL caught up with him, and there came a point (age) where his elusiveness could no longer cover for his deficiencies in reading certain defenses,

It's HARD to make changes to read differently after 8+ years. NFL QB is perhaps the hardest position in all of sports to play really well.

Perhaps Russell can add a few more reads to his repertoire to defeat the schemes defenses are throwing at him. Not only does he have to do that, he has to let go of the hero-ball first mentality he often shows. Such a beautiful drive vs. Washington Football Team at the end of the game. Taking what the D gave him, then being alert to a busted coverage for the TD. But, on the 2 point conversion, he reverted right back to the baffled, confused, late with the ball Russell.

^ Good post ^
Wilson did it HIS way for so long now and became so set in his ways, why fix what ain't broke?
To his mind, it worked well enough to put him into Top Ten Quarterback discussion, so there was no reason to alter his sandlot style of play.
The problem with that line of thinking, is that Defensive minded Coaches out there are going to study your habits, & tendencies, and force you out of your comfort zone.
Now Wilson appears to be bewildered & perplexed, still trying to force round pegs into square holes.
Pete knows that Wilson can no longer do it all on his own, & that's why he's been hammering away at revitalizing the Run game.
The idea of going to another Team & Coach is fine, BUT it won't mean a hell of a lot if he takes his bad habits with him.
The writing is on the wall for Wilson, & he's going to have to reinvent himself, start speed reading Defenses, taking what defenses will give, and get the damned ball out a lot quicker.
Not saying he needs to abandon the deep ball plays, but if he's not willing to take the layups or whatever plays that are there for the taking, move the sticks, and live to fight another battle, those long passes are going to be fewer & farther between.

 

[toffee]

Wilson has been in a " must win " mode since his return . He doesn't want 5 yard completions and he is ignoring the opportunities when he has them . He isn't wired to take the gimmies . Wilson's over-confidence in himself has become a detriment in his play . " Mr. Unlimited " is very limited and he can't accept it . His repaired finger might be part of it ; but it sure seems to be more than that .

Must win and five yards completions are mutually exclusive? Wouldn't two of those completions made a first down ?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[Jville]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1465666928542990338[/tweet]

I'm curious to see if they can turn the corner on offense today. Today's 49er injury report would suggest that could be the case.

 

[olyfan63]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1465666928542990338[/tweet]

I'm curious to see if they can turn the corner on offense today. Today's 49er injury report would suggest that could be the case.

Ouch, 38% *completion rate* on 3rd down. Some of those completions will be short of the sticks, so the "conversion rate" is even lower.

 

[sutz]

Russ really did better at taking the short throws and the underneath stuff today. We'll never be a WCO with him at the helm, but getting some first downs and managing a couple of decent drives was a welcome change.

33 minutes TOP. :2thumbs:

 

[olyfan63]

Russ really did better at taking the short throws and the underneath stuff today. We'll never be a WCO with him at the helm, but getting some first downs and managing a couple of decent drives was a welcome change.

33 minutes TOP. :2thumbs:

That's what I felt like I was seeing too. Moved the chains, took more gimmes. Seemed like a conscious effort on Russell's part.

The D was better than usual, I suspected from not being gassed from being on the field the whole damn game.

 

[justafan]

I dont think he needs to, Wilson is a HOFer playing the way he does, We just need a running game and let him play his game. He has holes but Im ok with it. He is what he always has been. The problem is people are judging him and get butthurt because he wasnt playing like he was before the injury. A broken dislocated finger with a ruptured tendon and alot of you totally forgot what he has meant to this team and community. He is still a great QB.

He had over 1100 yds, 10 TDs and 1 interception before he got hurt. Not bad in 4 1/2 games.

 

[John63]

OKay first ye she can he has been taking the layup on 60-70% of his passes before the Sf game. That said you have to take shots sometimes. Also, we are not a WCO team. What the rams run is not a WCO. We have 2 of the best deep-ball threats in the game. Just because he throws a long ball or tries to make a play does not mean he can't, he has been and does. Go back to 2015 and you will see what it can look like. If you really objectively look at every season he throws short a lot taking what they give him, he just does not do it all the time. However, keep in mind we had more WCO capable WRs then. Dk is not a WC wr, Baldwin was. Lockett can be, Eskridge and Swain can be. But remember you also risk DK going off because he is not getting his deep shots.

ow if you saying he can only take the layups well then you are saying only play half an offense. You have to do both and he does. Maybe not to your liking, maybe not all the time, but he does. Sometimes those attempted bombs are not just about a completion but also reminding the other team you can do it so they don't start taking away the layups. Just like you run sometimes even when it is not working to remind them you still can or want to.

I swear it is incredible how he can miss or not take a layup and all of a sudden he never does.

 

[Fade]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1467955636344274945[/tweet]

 

[chris98251]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1467955636344274945[/tweet]

That chart has not looked like that almost all season with Wilson, this may be the start of him coming to grips with the offense with Waldron.