hawk45
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2009
- Messages
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What the other council members are saying publicly does not necessarily, I think, tell us much, other than they are taking an opportunity to portray themselves as optimistic to avoid alienating basketball fans. If the deal doesn't happen Conlin can be a lightning rod. This just makes them better politicians than Conlin.
The comment about operating as a nonprofit was appropriate. Other privately owned enterprises do not get public money when they purchase or construct a new building. Hansen made the comment that basketball was a performance art, clearly trying to draw a parallel between basketball and opera or other sorts of arts that get public funding, well the reason that parallel does not work is that those other types of performance arts are operated as nonprofits. If Hansen were going to operate as a nonprofit then fine, use the performing arts comparison.
I hope Hansen does build a stadium. With private money. I agree that compared to other cities where owners have written crazy harmful deals, Hansen's proposal seems on the reasonable side, but that doesn't address the fundamental issue with public funding for sports stadiums which Conlin rightly raises.
The notion that the area should bear some risk because there will be some benefit to the area doesn't wash. There is tax revenue generated from every other private business out there, some very very large which create many highly-paid permanent jobs, but these private businesses do not get public funding for their buildings or other investments because all of the direct profits go to them. Unless the public will be able to share in the operating profits and profits when the team is sold they should not be exposed to any additional risk.
As far as claims of the benefit to the area go, there are studies out there (google "public financing of sports stadiums") which support the idea that sports stadiums do not produce large scale economic growth for cities, as patronage simply shifts from other previously existing sports/entertainment/restaurants and fans simply go out to eat less to budget for their spending on the new sport. There are some temporary construction jobs and some minimum wage jobs created in and around the arena.
Yes, the bonds will be paid back by taxes that wouldn't exist otherwise, but it is the risk that is the problem. Otherwise why would we not use public funding whenever Microsoft, Boeing, Costco, Walmart, anyone needs a new building? Microsoft could put an extra tax on every copy of Windows it sells and then say look, these taxes wouldn't otherwise exist, so we should have public funding. And Microsoft employs a truckload of people permanently at high wages, I can see a much stronger case for Microsoft or Boeing than I could ever see for a sports stadium for a team that might suck for 10 years straight and make paying the bond back difficult.
I absolutely do not hold it against Hansen that he's seeking public funding; that will make his very large investment much more likely to be profitable and he sees that other cities have done it. But even as a sports fan, I recognize that outside of the very vocal minority of sports fans, it's not a sure thing that a majority of people in this area support this. I strongly suspect it's the opposite no matter what a poll or two from a media outlet says.
The comment about operating as a nonprofit was appropriate. Other privately owned enterprises do not get public money when they purchase or construct a new building. Hansen made the comment that basketball was a performance art, clearly trying to draw a parallel between basketball and opera or other sorts of arts that get public funding, well the reason that parallel does not work is that those other types of performance arts are operated as nonprofits. If Hansen were going to operate as a nonprofit then fine, use the performing arts comparison.
I hope Hansen does build a stadium. With private money. I agree that compared to other cities where owners have written crazy harmful deals, Hansen's proposal seems on the reasonable side, but that doesn't address the fundamental issue with public funding for sports stadiums which Conlin rightly raises.
The notion that the area should bear some risk because there will be some benefit to the area doesn't wash. There is tax revenue generated from every other private business out there, some very very large which create many highly-paid permanent jobs, but these private businesses do not get public funding for their buildings or other investments because all of the direct profits go to them. Unless the public will be able to share in the operating profits and profits when the team is sold they should not be exposed to any additional risk.
As far as claims of the benefit to the area go, there are studies out there (google "public financing of sports stadiums") which support the idea that sports stadiums do not produce large scale economic growth for cities, as patronage simply shifts from other previously existing sports/entertainment/restaurants and fans simply go out to eat less to budget for their spending on the new sport. There are some temporary construction jobs and some minimum wage jobs created in and around the arena.
Yes, the bonds will be paid back by taxes that wouldn't exist otherwise, but it is the risk that is the problem. Otherwise why would we not use public funding whenever Microsoft, Boeing, Costco, Walmart, anyone needs a new building? Microsoft could put an extra tax on every copy of Windows it sells and then say look, these taxes wouldn't otherwise exist, so we should have public funding. And Microsoft employs a truckload of people permanently at high wages, I can see a much stronger case for Microsoft or Boeing than I could ever see for a sports stadium for a team that might suck for 10 years straight and make paying the bond back difficult.
I absolutely do not hold it against Hansen that he's seeking public funding; that will make his very large investment much more likely to be profitable and he sees that other cities have done it. But even as a sports fan, I recognize that outside of the very vocal minority of sports fans, it's not a sure thing that a majority of people in this area support this. I strongly suspect it's the opposite no matter what a poll or two from a media outlet says.
