Weakest position re: Seahawks' depth

[hawknation2015]

Defensive Tackle

Mebane
McDaniel
Hill
Rubin
Staten
Smith

I have thought DT was one of our bigger needs the last two years and I think we are even thinner than past season with Hill and Mebane coming off injuries. I think Rubin was a very under rated signing that will prove very valuable this season, if Mebane rebounds to his normal self and Hill improves I think we will be solid but still not a position of strength.


Rankings by position
1. RB
2. Safety
3. CB
4. TE
5. QB
6. DE
7. LB
8. OT
9. WR
10. OG/C
11. DT

Really 11th?

1. Mebane
2. McDaniel
3. Hill
4. Rubin
5. Dobbs
6. Scruggs
7. King
8. Smith
9. Staten
10. McGill

Hill is fine. Mebane is questionable but lets wait to see how he performs coming back. All 4 at the have starter ability. Dobbs before his injury was excellent. Scruggs has potential if he can get his knee right. King flashed in his few opportunities to get snaps. I thought Smith could have made the team last year because he was dominating in the Pre-Season but he ended up on I.R. Jury is still out on Staten but the Seahawks liked him enough to use a 5th round pick. Maybe he has improved with a year of development. All said McGill is the only rookie, and other than Staten , everyone else has been in the league for at least 3 years.

Not to mention Michael Bennet, Will Tukuafu, and potentially Frank Clark.

I don't see as big of a problem as you paint, probably only 5 or 6 of the 10 will make the squad. For now Mebane, McD, Hill, and Rubin are locks.

Yeah, I agree that DT has to be considered one of the 'deeper' positions on the team. Brandon Mebane is back this year, which is huge for the interior line. Kevin Williams was a fine replacement last year, but Mebane is on a whole other level as a NT.

Tony McDaniel is a phenomenal player against the run on first and second downs, and Jordan Hill flashed exciting pass rushing upside in the nickel defense. Ahtyba Rubin could also fill that role if Hill is hurt. Carroll really liked the way Dobbs was playing last year, and Turkuafu (and perhaps Scruggs) gives them even more competition at an extremely crowded spot.

With the addition of Frank Clark, we now have even more options in terms of how we use Michael Bennett on 3rd downs. One of those guys would go inside to pair with Hill or Rubin, in those situations, and the other would attack the backfield from the outside.

The addition of Mebane alone was enough to compensate for the loss of Williams . . . then you add in Clark moving inside in the nickel, a more experienced Hill and Dobbs, and the return of Scruggs. This is absolutely one of the more talented and competitive position groups on paper.

 

[Scottemojo]

Defensive Tackle

Mebane
McDaniel
Hill
Rubin
Staten
Smith

I have thought DT was one of our bigger needs the last two years and I think we are even thinner than past season with Hill and Mebane coming off injuries. I think Rubin was a very under rated signing that will prove very valuable this season, if Mebane rebounds to his normal self and Hill improves I think we will be solid but still not a position of strength.


Rankings by position
1. RB
2. Safety
3. CB
4. TE
5. QB
6. DE
7. LB
8. OT
9. WR
10. OG/C
11. DT

I completely agree. Not because of lack of talent, but because of questions.

Hill and Mebane are coming of injuries. McDaniel slipped a bit last year. Rubin is new to us. I think DT has questions for every single player, which makes it my position of weakness. Once I get to three IFs, I get concerned.

 

[hawknation2015]

The early OTA reports on Mebane, who has had 6 1/2 months to recover from his hamstring tear, have been positive:

Brandon Mebane looks is far better shape than I expected him to look after not playing in six months. He tore his hamstring in November, but Carroll raved about his recovery and says the 30-year-old defensive tackle should be ready to go for training camp.

Carroll: “Brandon is doing great. He’s running all over the place. I don’t see why he can’t make it back for camp. The trainers have been thrilled about his work regimen. I think he’s having the best offseason he’s had. We’ve seen so much of him and so much running that he’s running around like a DB out here. Not exactly. I’ll take that back. But he’s doing great.”
http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks ... t-helmets/

Jordan Hill has been "full go and did not look at all limited by the calf injury that caused him to miss all of last postseason." Rubin, in my opinion, is insurance for Hill.

If Mebane became a serious question mark, I imagine they would work to re-sign Kevin Williams.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Jeff Tuel was released by Buffalo. Might be worth bringing in for competition.

 

[hawkfan68]

I believe that if Carroll and the coaches are confident in Daniels' abilities at QB, he wouldn't be looked at WR or in other roles. Carroll has seen him for 2+ years now. I believe that Pete knows exactly where he would be better served. That's why he's looking at other roles for him. They drafted 3 WR in the last two drafts, they acquired Graham this offseason, Matthews has shown promise. They are well set at WR compared to at QB (except for Wilson). With Lockett and Blackmon, the need for a returner guy is less. Daniels is in danger of not being on the final 53. Especially if Carroll doesn't see him as QB. Archer is a huge question mark at this point. Having him on the team, as a backup, doesn't ooze confidence either. From all I heard is he has a good arm but is extremely inaccurate. A QB with good arm who is inaccurate is the equivalent of having a WR with 4.3 speed who can't catch a pass. Neither adds anything.

 

[kearly]

Hill and Mebane are coming of injuries. McDaniel slipped a bit last year. Rubin is new to us. I think DT has questions for every single player, which makes it my position of weakness. Once I get to three IFs, I get concerned.

I feel like I have to disagree with this on principle, even though everything you said is correct. Last year Seattle had bad injury luck at DT, yet still fielded the #2 ranked run defense (Football Outsiders) in the NFL. They also did a very good job of keeping bodies off our LBs. Even with some injury issues, last year's DT group was the best by performance of any group in the PC era.

So I feel that, for DT to be dead last, you'd have to assume worst case scenario. Because even with a couple injuries last year, it was still a very effective group. Granted, Williams was a big part of that and he hasn't signed back yet. And there are question marks, I just wouldn't put them that low.

 

[Seafan]

QB

 

[Scottemojo]

Hill and Mebane are coming of injuries. McDaniel slipped a bit last year. Rubin is new to us. I think DT has questions for every single player, which makes it my position of weakness. Once I get to three IFs, I get concerned.

I feel like I have to disagree with this on principle, even though everything you said is correct. Last year Seattle had bad injury luck at DT, yet still fielded the #2 ranked run defense (Football Outsiders) in the NFL. They also did a very good job of keeping bodies off our LBs. Even with some injury issues, last year's DT group was the best by performance of any group in the PC era.

So I feel that, for DT to be dead last, you'd have to assume worst case scenario. Because even with a couple injuries last year, it was still a very effective group. Granted, Williams was a big part of that and he hasn't signed back yet. And there are question marks, I just wouldn't put them that low.

My methodology is more about what worries me than what actually happens. WR still has as many question marks as any area of the team. But in division, all three rivals seem to be trying to build squads that can run with force, under the if you can't beat em, join em principle. Lucky for us, teams truly dedicated to grinding out the run, like Dallas, are rare.

OL doesn't really worry me because I know a lot of the perception of problems there is actually the way we call offense. Play action pass block with deep shots will feature some ugly pass block sets. Carpenter is gone, whoever replaces him will have to be better at recognizing stunts just because worse is not really possible. If we had a bevy of bad run blockers, I would worry, but we don't.

WR? Maybe I am numb to that position by now, I think our talent level is adequate at best, but our offense naturally limits the impact of a standout WR anyway. Any WR in Seattle has to deal with wondering how he would fare in a more pass prolific offense. Primarily a WR in Seattle needs to have that sandlot vibe, routes are secondary to being sympatico with Russ and his scrambles. We have that.

DE is not a big concern, I feel Clark could play well as a rookie if needed. Avril and Bennett and Clark. Pretty solid.
LB is not a worry.
Safety and CB seem taken care of, depth is an issue, but part of that is just 3 of the starters are so good that whoever is behind them looks like dogshit no matter what.
RB? I am in the minority here, but I think Turbin could start for a bunch of teams. CM is an idiot, but a talented idiot. I like the rookie FB. Solid there too.
QB? 2nd string is a concern, but we aren't a contender in this offense without Russ anyway.
TE? Curious to see Graham's real role, but depth there has been an issue for years. Once again, a role limited by the offense, being worried about it is also limited by the offense.

Specials seems fixed by the addition of Lockett. A budget Harvin who doesn't punch people in the locker room, and can actually run routes, who might develop a broken play sandlot vibe with Russ? Yes please. I hate counting on rookie WRs, which is why I don't talk about Lockett much at WR just yet, but the kid produced with a sad QB at KS, so just maybe...

Which is why I arrived at DT. Like I said, probably a flawed method.

 

[kearly]

Which is why I arrived at DT. Like I said, probably a flawed method.

Personally, I would put OL (3 young starters), WR (Richardson hurt, Lockett a rookie), TE (awful behind Graham), and FB lower than DT. DE would be lower too, if Bennett decides to hold out and miss games. CB and S have much bigger question marks for me than DT does. If we are talking depth only, I'd have QB and LB lower too.

I see the DT position as being fairly loaded. Hill and Mebane by themselves are probably a top 10 DT duo. Rubin is a gamble, but considering that PC/JS are basically batting a thousand on cheap FA DTs, I tend to lean optimistic with him. It's interesting to me that Seattle could have had Pot Roast for almost the same money, but chose Rubin anyway. McDaniel did slip a bit last year but as a run stopper he is still a good player. Marsh will probably have an impact as a situational pass rusher.

Last year Seattle rotated pretty much all of their DTs into games and pretty much all of them played well.

I suspect Williams will be back too when it's all said and done. It could be that the only reason he hasn't signed yet is due to Seattle keeping their financial options open during their Wilson extension talks (ditto Tjack, and possibly Zach Miller).

 

[QuahHawk]

DT is the only position on theteam in which our top 3 you could even say 4 players at the position have question marks. Can Mebane and Hill return to form from injuries, is Hill even as good as we think he is?
Is McDaniel going to take a step back? McDaniel is solid but aging and is not irreplaceable.
Rubin was a good FA addition, question remains if he can fit in and gel with this defense. He isn't a lock to be as good as I think he will be.

All other DT's are bottom of the roster guys who will be lucky to make the team.

Comparing to other positions only OG/C has as many question marks. Due to the fact we have plugged in 7th round converted DT into a starter, it is safe to say that our OL is pretty plug & play as long as there is a hungry agressive body Cabel will have his OL over acheiving.

 

[hawknation2015]

DT is the only position on theteam in which our top 3 you could even say 4 players at the position have question marks. Can Mebane and Hill return to form from injuries, is Hill even as good as we think he is?
Is McDaniel going to take a step back? McDaniel is solid but aging and is not irreplaceable.
Rubin was a good FA addition, question remains if he can fit in and gel with this defense. He isn't a lock to be as good as I think he will be.

All other DT's are bottom of the roster guys who will be lucky to make the team.

Comparing to other positions only OG/C has as many question marks. Due to the fact we have plugged in 7th round converted DT into a starter, it is safe to say that our OL is pretty plug & play as long as there is a hungry agressive body Cabel will have his OL over acheiving.

As stated above, Mebane has been running around 6+ months after his hamstring injury, and Hill is already full go. McDaniel is what he is . . . excellent against the run on first and second downs, as he was starting ahead of Williams before Mebane went down. There are more injury concerns in the secondary than there are at DT. Replacing Williams with a healthy Mebane is a positive for the defensive line, IMO.

I think you are forgetting that Bennett and/or Clark will be playing inside on most 3rd downs. In addition, we have Marsh, Rubin, Tukuafu, Dobbs (who was looking very good), and Scruggs to add to the competition.

 

[Fade]

Rubin was a great NT in Cleveland until midway through last season when he played through a leg injury, and his performance suffered. NTs don't fall off a cliff like RBs when they hit 30 either.

That is a real good get for the FO because its either a good 3rd starting caliber DT for your base defense or it is great insurance if you have to trim Mebane or McDaniel for cap reasons, or if there is an injury.

The Hawks DLine rotation looks really good right now.

Base DE
Michael Bennett
Frank Clark
Cliff Avril

3 guys for 2 spots

Base DT
Mebane
McDaniel
Rubin

3 guys for 2 spots

Nickel
Cliff Avril
Michael Bennett
Jordan Hill
Bruce Irvin
Frank Clark
Cassius Marsh

6 guys for 4 spots

Leaving a nice deep 9 man rotation for the DLine, and who knows maybe a Dobbs or Scruggs take a step forward.

Who here thinks 9 guys isn't enough depth for a DLine? :34853_doh:

Generically

DE
Bennett
Clark
Marsh

NT
Mebane
Rubin

DT
McDaniel
Hill

LEO
Avril
Irvin

I'm hoping Frank Clark can show enough get off at the snap to be a Leo, but until I see him in preseason I will pencil him in as a Michael Bennett type more than a Chris Clemons type.

The OLine is the thinner and more unproven group, all though I'm the most excited about the group since 2012 in general.

LT
Okung

LG
Bailey
Poole

C
Jeanpierre
Lewis

RG
Sweezy
Glowinski

RT
Britt

The DLine has vets galore Bennett, Mebane, McDaniel, Rubin, & Avril.

The OLine? Okung, and..... Sweezy?

If and when Okung gets hurt (has never played a full season) Seattle will be super thin at the position group.

 

[Tical21]

I can't go with the DT nomination. I think Rubin is a heckuva player. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up with the second most snaps of th DT's. Not sure what happened to him last year, but he was everywhere there for a while. I think he has pieces that we can figure out how to use.

I'd put QB at #1, although I'm quite certain Tarvaris comes back. I think with him, we have possibly the top backup in the league. Without him, we might have the worst.

Then I certainly go O-line. I think a year from now we are talking about the decent depth we have cultivated on our O-line, but as of now, I'd be absolutely horrified if a couple guys go down. I think Russell could keep dancing, but I'd worry about our running game.

DE also concerns me from a pass-rush standpoint. I wasn't thrilled with what I saw from Marsh, and I think Clark translates best inside or as a run-stopper if playing end.

ETA: Errr, yeah, what that guy above me said. I should read some previous posts every once in a while.

 

[Fade]

I can't go with the DT nomination. I think Rubin is a heckuva player. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up with the second most snaps of th DT's. Not sure what happened to him last year, but he was everywhere there for a while. I think he has pieces that we can figure out how to use.

I'd put QB at #1, although I'm quite certain Tarvaris comes back. I think with him, we have possibly the top backup in the league. Without him, we might have the worst.

Then I certainly go O-line. I think a year from now we are talking about the decent depth we have cultivated on our O-line, but as of now, I'd be absolutely horrified if a couple guys go down. I think Russell could keep dancing, but I'd worry about our running game.

DE also concerns me from a pass-rush standpoint. I wasn't thrilled with what I saw from Marsh, and I think Clark translates best inside or as a run-stopper if playing end.

ETA: Errr, yeah, what that guy above me said. I should read some previous posts every once in a while.

LOL

I was nodding my head as I was reading your post.

Point by point, that was pretty cool.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Well people on here were saying we don't need Wilson and any QB will be able to win with our defense and running game. :stirthepot:

Heh, well given they're trying to make BJ a wide receiver I'd say the backup job is between Archer and whatever UDFA that can walk while chewing gum. Face it, if Wilson gets injured enough to keep out of multiple games we're done just like every other good NFL team. Gone are the days that a team can have a backup that's any good.

If they are, they're a starter for some team that doesn't have a first or second tier quarterback in the first place. Like Cleveland or Tampa Bay or a few others.

 

[Fade]

QB depth is asinine and irrelevant in this era. You lose your starter you're done period.

Either you're looking for a QB, or you have a QB. The Seahawks have a QB.

FUN FACT: In 6 Drafts in the PCJS era the Seahawks have only taken 1 QB.

If QB depth was important the Hawks would be drafting 1 every other year.

Anyone think TJack can lead us to a Super Bowl? If you do --> :179422:

If he is on the team cool, but if RW isn't healthy most of the season, and come playoff time it won't matter.

Depth concerns

01 OLine
Lack of experience, and depth.

02 WR
Still missing a #2 let alone a #1.

03 Safety
The loss of Jeron Johnson in FA leaves Seattle barren of capable starters if ET or Kam go down.

04 Corner
Jeremy Lane's injury while swapping Maxwell for Kerry Williams leaves me a little concerned. Simon sucked too.

05 Linebacker
In good, but not great shape. KPL played well last year.

06 Tight End
I love Luke Willson as a #2, Anthony McCoy as a #3, and Cooper as a #4. Zach Miller is still on the market it would be cool to sign him mid season if there is an injury, and he is still available.

Back to Luke Willson with Jimmy Graham on the field, Luke will see coverage predominantly from linebackers, with his speed that could equal a lot of big plays.

07 DLine
Great depth, 2 deep at every spot.

08 RB
4 deep if you believe the Thomas Rawls hype.

 

[Spin Doctor]

QB depth is asinine and irrelevant in this era. You lose your starter you're done period.

Either you're looking for a QB, or you have a QB. The Seahawks have a QB.

FUN FACT: In 6 Drafts in the PCJS era the Seahawks have only taken 1 QB.

If QB depth was important the Hawks would be drafting 1 every other year.

Anyone think TJack can lead us to a Super Bowl? If you do --> :179422:

If he is on the team cool, but if RW isn't healthy most of the season, and come playoff time it won't matter.

Depth concerns

01 OLine
Lack of experience, and depth.

02 WR
Still missing a #2 let alone a #1.

03 Safety
The loss of Jeron Johnson in FA leaves Seattle barren of capable starters if ET or Kam go down.

04 Corner
Jeremy Lane's injury while swapping Maxwell for Kerry Williams leaves me a little concerned. Simon sucked too.

05 Linebacker
In good, but not great shape. KPL played well last year.

06 Tight End
I love Luke Willson as a #2, Anthony McCoy as a #3, and Cooper as a #4. Zach Miller is still on the market it would be cool to sign him mid season if there is an injury, and he is still available.

Back to Luke Willson with Jimmy Graham on the field, Luke will see coverage predominantly from linebackers, with his speed that could equal a lot of big plays.

07 DLine
Great depth, 2 deep at every spot.

08 RB
4 deep if you believe the Thomas Rawls hype.

I would argue that QB depth is VERY important, especially since we have a Quarterback that likes to run with the football. Yes, he has the Shaun Alexander slide down very well, but I notice he still takes some nasty hits. Sooner or later this playing style will get him injured. In fact I think there is good evidence that he has already played with injuries.

This is a team that could be at least get by with a good backup until Russell Wilson comes back from his hypothetical injury. Other teams have been able to do it. It is also very important to have a developmental prospect around. If the developmental prospect shows even a modicum of potential, teams will be willing to give up good capital to acquire such a QB. Just look at some of the trades involving relatively unproven QB s such as Kolb. You would not be able to do such a thing with a backup DT. Heck... even our own trade involving third string QB Charlie Whitehurst is a good example of this.

 

[Fade]

QB depth is asinine and irrelevant in this era. You lose your starter you're done period.

Either you're looking for a QB, or you have a QB. The Seahawks have a QB.

FUN FACT: In 6 Drafts in the PCJS era the Seahawks have only taken 1 QB.

If QB depth was important the Hawks would be drafting 1 every other year.

Anyone think TJack can lead us to a Super Bowl? If you do --> :179422:

If he is on the team cool, but if RW isn't healthy most of the season, and come playoff time it won't matter.

Depth concerns

01 OLine
Lack of experience, and depth.

02 WR
Still missing a #2 let alone a #1.

03 Safety
The loss of Jeron Johnson in FA leaves Seattle barren of capable starters if ET or Kam go down.

04 Corner
Jeremy Lane's injury while swapping Maxwell for Kerry Williams leaves me a little concerned. Simon sucked too.

05 Linebacker
In good, but not great shape. KPL played well last year.

06 Tight End
I love Luke Willson as a #2, Anthony McCoy as a #3, and Cooper as a #4. Zach Miller is still on the market it would be cool to sign him mid season if there is an injury, and he is still available.

Back to Luke Willson with Jimmy Graham on the field, Luke will see coverage predominantly from linebackers, with his speed that could equal a lot of big plays.

07 DLine
Great depth, 2 deep at every spot.

08 RB
4 deep if you believe the Thomas Rawls hype.

I would argue that QB depth is VERY important, especially since we have a Quarterback that likes to run with the football. Yes, he has the Shaun Alexander slide down very well, but I notice he still takes some nasty hits. Sooner or later this playing style will get him injured. In fact I think there is good evidence that he has already played with injuries.

This is a team that could be at least get by with a good backup until Russell Wilson comes back from his hypothetical injury. Other teams have been able to do it. It is also very important to have a developmental prospect around. If the developmental prospect shows even a modicum of potential, teams will be willing to give up good capital to acquire such a QB. Just look at some of the trades involving relatively unproven QB s such as Kolb. You would not be able to do such a thing with a backup DT. Heck... even our own trade involving third string QB Charlie Whitehurst is a good example of this.

Then why haven't the Hawks drafted more than 1 QB in 6 drafts? The Seahawks are telling you through their actions that QB depth isn't important, because it isn't compared to the other position groups on the team.

There is a salary cap, and it is asinine to dump resources into a postiion that won't see the field. Short of veteran minimum, or a late round draft pick.

 

[kearly]

Ted Thompson learned the hard way that QB depth matters back when Rodgers went down in 2013. If your QB misses 4-6 games, it could kill your season unless you have a good backup (or play in a joke of a division).

 

[Spin Doctor]

Ted Thompson learned the hard way that QB depth matters back when Rodgers went down in 2013. If your QB misses 4-6 games, it could kill your season unless you have a good backup (or play in a joke of a division).

This. A decent backup QB can limp good teams to victories for at least a short period of time. If you do not have a person that can step in for 3-4 games your season could be over.

I would not say that Schneider and Carroll DO NOT care about backup QB's either. While they haven't gone and drafted a QB in a long while, they have definitely been looking for a developmental prospect. Instead of spending draft capital they have looked at high upside guys such as Pryor to potentially replace Jackson. I would also say that there were no well known prospects that really fit what Carroll, and Schneider seem to value in a QB.