Tom Brady PC

hawknation2015

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GoPatsSB49":2q3jwywq said:
bmorepunk":2q3jwywq said:
GoPatsSB49":2q3jwywq said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The weather cannot scientifically be responsible for balls at 12.5 psi dropping to 10.5 psi (if 2 psi difference is to be believed). This is a simple calculation done with Guy-Lussac's law and I did it in another thread. If the balls were filled and temperature stable at 72 degrees F, it would require them to be temperature stable at -13 F to make that difference. If it was 40 degrees F, it only drops the temperature 0.7 degrees.

If Brady was lying at his press conference he is a terrible liar. You're supposed to only answer enough to make it sound legitimate, not make a ton of statements which sound conflicting.
Yep. I'm right with you there brother. I'm waiting on the facts though especially concerning the real pressure level of the balls. I gotta head out, talk to you guys later

I think Belichick and Brady deflated the balls because they knew a direct connection between them and the deflation could never be proven . . . unless a member of your probably very loyal equipment staff decides to fess up, as happened with Spygate, thereby throwing the team under the bus a week and a half before the Super Bowl. The chances of that happening have to be somewhere between slim and none. Every staff member should expect a healthy raise in the coming days.
 

furi0usbee

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I'm a lifelong Patriots fan, but let me tell you, today, first Belichick lied to me, then Brady lied to me. I at least had some hope after Belichick essentially said, I don't know anything, but Tom does. So I waited for Brady to come clean and let me know what happened, good or bad. He essentially said, sorry guys, I know just as little as my coach. And he chose his words very carefully by saying, and I paraphrase, "the balls I choose before the game are the balls I expect to play with." OK, so were these the balls you chose before the game and are these the ones you expected, or were these different?

I knew a couple days ago that the only way out for them was to play the 12.5 PSI card, which both Belichick and Brady did today. So by essentially saying 12.5 PSI, that means that *any* loss, no matter how small, already starts them outside the lines of the legal limit, but since they were "approved" at 12.5 PSI, they feel they are good. So right now, they are essentially saying, NFL, prove we did something wrong.

And guess what, that's probably the best approach for them, even know I know they are lying to me. Because I'll bet you that the refs DID NOT initially measure the PSI in those balls, I'll bet they just felt them, they felt good, just like they felt during the game, and that's that. The only measurements they have is the balls AFTER the first half, and after they have been played. So Brady and Belichick have a pretty good alibi since for their purposes, they had no opportunity to do anything. So if the NFL only has measurements of the balls at the end, and not the beginning, you have Brady confirming he had them 12.5 PSI, then you have refs confirming they were below that level at halftime. But by how much?

Even if the balls are 10 PSI or lower, without a confession or evidence/proof, there is no way the NFL can put this on any one person within the Patriots. So my guess is that they will fine the team, change rules for next year, and the SB will be played as usual.

So Belichick comes up and says, talk to Tom. Brady comes up and says "I have no idea how balls got deflated." I'm assuming the equipment manager needs to come to the podium and explain he did what Brady wanted 12.5 PSI, then who knows what happened after he gave the balls to the ball boy. Then the ball boy comes to the podium and says everything was fine, and nobody touched them once he got them on the field. And there you go, everyone passes the buck, and nobody admits anything, and the NFL is left to just fine someone or some entity.

Bottom line for me, Brady lied. Belichick lied. But, right now, there is still a chance the Patriots actually offered the refs balls that were below 12.5 PSI and the refs OKd them, without checking them very well. So if that's the case, the Patriots offered say 10.5/11 PSI balls, the refs didn't catch it, and they played the game.

If that is the case and the Patriots DID NOT tamper with those balls after the refs initially inspected them, some people may not like me for this, but I would have much less of a problem if that were the case. If that happened, the NFL didn't do their job. But if someone actually went and tampered after the refs inspected them, I think Patriots/Belichick/Brady deserve big fines. I can't see any suspensions unless it's found someone actually tampered.

IN any event, I was so excited and looking forward to this game, and now for an entire week I've had to go through this. Through no fault of my own, other than being a fan. The NFL is totally inept in this matter if they haven't even interviewed Brady on day 4. That's beyond belief.

I understand teams try to play loose with rules, and I bet Brady has been doing this since he injured his throwing hand back when, I heard he had ligament damage. But if they gave the NFL under sized balls, and the NFL didn't do their job inspecting, this is a totally different case than tampering with balls post inspection. Just saying. It sucks either way, and I don't like being lied to!
 

50yrpatsfan

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Sarlacc83":3bh1lakg said:
GoPatsSB49":3bh1lakg said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

Lolwut?

It has already been confirmed. That's why your coach and QB are working to throw people under the bus like it's the apocalypse and their fall guys are zombies. It's really delightful that Belicheck chose Brady as his scapegoat, too.

wtf are you talking about, "confirmed"??? Who has confirmed ANYTHING? Please post any link you got where the league has announced anything except that they are doing a review of this situation.

This is the media at work. espn says an "unnamed source" says there was a 2 psi difference in 11 of 12 balls. No corroboration whatsoever. No science confirming that this was anything but normal and related to the elements. Complete suppression of any counter viewpoints. But based on that pile of hooey, they have the gall to start calling people liars.

Great country we live in. Wow.
 

hawknation2015

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50yrpatsfan":3h6ifjzh said:
wtf are you talking about, "confirmed"??? Who has confirmed ANYTHING? Please post any link you got where the league has announced anything except that they are doing a review of this situation.

This is the media at work. espn says an "unnamed source" says there was a 2 psi difference in 11 of 12 balls. No corroboration whatsoever. No science confirming that this was anything but normal and related to the elements. Complete suppression of any counter viewpoints. But based on that pile of hooey, they have the gall to start calling people liars.

Great country we live in. Wow.

I guess you don't read the Boston Globe . . .

According to a National Football League letter about the investigation into the controversy that was shared with the Globe, the Patriots were informed that the league’s initial findings indicated that the game balls did not meet specifications. The league inspected each of the Patriots’ 12 game balls twice at halftime, using different pressure gauges, and found footballs that were not properly inflated.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/ ... story.html
 

Cyrus12

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...or watch the press conference where Belicheat himself says it happened...but of course had no knowledge of...oh and Tommy Boy's presser too...but he didn't know anything either....
 

Sarlacc83

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50yrpatsfan":j7lhuadz said:
Sarlacc83":j7lhuadz said:
GoPatsSB49":j7lhuadz said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

Lolwut?

It has already been confirmed. That's why your coach and QB are working to throw people under the bus like it's the apocalypse and their fall guys are zombies. It's really delightful that Belicheck chose Brady as his scapegoat, too.

wtf are you talking about, "confirmed"??? Who has confirmed ANYTHING? Please post any link you got where the league has announced anything except that they are doing a review of this situation.

This is the media at work. espn says an "unnamed source" says there was a 2 psi difference in 11 of 12 balls. No corroboration whatsoever. No science confirming that this was anything but normal and related to the elements. Complete suppression of any counter viewpoints. But based on that pile of hooey, they have the gall to start calling people liars.

Great country we live in. Wow.

You could sell Patriots fans prostitutes during an orgy.

Seriously, listening to these excuses makes me wonder if your school system is just terrible or there's lead in the water out there.
 

vonstout

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Chicago radio thought the NFL was going to wait for the press conferences today before talking to Brady or Belicheat. Former Bear WR Tom Waddle said the NFL would have the pressure measurements documented and they could use their press conf answers against them. And like everyone else, none of them believed Brady or BB.
 

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Sarlacc83":1uot6t0d said:
50yrpatsfan":1uot6t0d said:
Sarlacc83":1uot6t0d said:
GoPatsSB49":1uot6t0d said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

Lolwut?

It has already been confirmed. That's why your coach and QB are working to throw people under the bus like it's the apocalypse and their fall guys are zombies. It's really delightful that Belicheck chose Brady as his scapegoat, too.

wtf are you talking about, "confirmed"??? Who has confirmed ANYTHING? Please post any link you got where the league has announced anything except that they are doing a review of this situation.

This is the media at work. espn says an "unnamed source" says there was a 2 psi difference in 11 of 12 balls. No corroboration whatsoever. No science confirming that this was anything but normal and related to the elements. Complete suppression of any counter viewpoints. But based on that pile of hooey, they have the gall to start calling people liars.

Great country we live in. Wow.

You could sell Patriots fans prostitutes during an orgy.

Seriously, listening to these excuses makes me wonder if your school system is just terrible or there's lead in the water out there.

Well they won one superbowl that they cheated to win and no one cared....so why would any Pat fan care about this? A win is win right pats fans?
 

Hawkpower

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50yrpatsfan":vhofnpib said:
Sarlacc83":vhofnpib said:
GoPatsSB49":vhofnpib said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

Lolwut?

It has already been confirmed. That's why your coach and QB are working to throw people under the bus like it's the apocalypse and their fall guys are zombies. It's really delightful that Belicheck chose Brady as his scapegoat, too.

wtf are you talking about, "confirmed"??? Who has confirmed ANYTHING? Please post any link you got where the league has announced anything except that they are doing a review of this situation.

This is the media at work. espn says an "unnamed source" says there was a 2 psi difference in 11 of 12 balls. No corroboration whatsoever. No science confirming that this was anything but normal and related to the elements. Complete suppression of any counter viewpoints. But based on that pile of hooey, they have the gall to start calling people liars.

Great country we live in. Wow.



hahahahahaha Pats fan. Perhaps you should read up on the news next time before posting so you dont look ridiculous.

What really is "hooey" would be 11 footballs all being deflated to the exact same pressure level by the "elements" lol

You guys are too much, really. There isnt a non Pats fan anywhere that believes, or feels sorry for you cheaters.
 

taco40

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hawk79":1n7gdtwu said:
CBS reports Aikman, Hines Ward and Madden aren't buying Tom's explanation.

It's the old saying: The cover up is usually worst than the original offense.

The press conference, I think, made things go from bad to worse. Someone eventually is going to talk. Brady must feel that he has enough stock in the league that he can just deny, deny, deny until everything blows over.

One thing is for sure, the league will somehow find a way to screw this up so if I'm Brady, I'd stay the course.

Here's a link to an article on Aikman's take from the NY Post.
[urltargetblank]http://nypost.com/2015/01/22/aikman-on-deflategate-brady-knew-and-belichick-should-burn/[/urltargetblank]

And John "Those guys came to play football today" Madden from NBS's Pro Football Talk:
[urltargetblank]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/john-madden-blame-tom-brady-for-deflated-footballs/[/urltargetblank]

And not related, but just for you Belichick lovers out there.
Kraft called Belichick a "Schmuck":
[urltargetblank]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/robert-kraft-has-called-bill-belichick-a-schmuck-for-past-sins/[/urltargetblank]
 

brimsalabim

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So no NFL investigation for the Pats yet Meanwhile not one but two Seahawks have been fined for deflating their own balls.
 

50yrpatsfan

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GoPatsSB49":31ml5kgv said:
bmorepunk":31ml5kgv said:
GoPatsSB49":31ml5kgv said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The weather cannot scientifically be responsible for balls at 12.5 psi dropping to 10.5 psi (if 2 psi difference is to be believed). This is a simple calculation done with Guy-Lussac's law and I did it in another thread. If the balls were filled and temperature stable at 72 degrees F, it would require them to be temperature stable at -13 F to make that difference. If it was 40 degrees F, it only drops the temperature 0.7 degrees.

If Brady was lying at his press conference he is a terrible liar. You're supposed to only answer enough to make it sound legitimate, not make a ton of statements which sound conflicting.
Yep. I'm right with you there brother. I'm waiting on the facts though especially concerning the real pressure level of the balls. I gotta head out, talk to you guys later

I'm not a scientist, but got this from another board. Any scientists in the crowd care to comment on this?

PV=nRT is the ideal gas law.
p=pressure In units of atmospheres.
v equals volume
n is number of moles or Advacados number times molecules
R is a gas constant
T is temperature in Kelvin.

For a football with air in it we can say the volume and the n and the R stays the same for the sake of the following.

So the question I am posing is how does P change with temperature.

Say the balls were inflated to 12 psi-so p =26.2 psi. 26.2=14.2(one atmosphere) +12.
and was done at 70 degrees fareinheit whitch equals 294 degrees kelvin.

The 26.2 psi equals 1.85 atmospheres which equals 26.2/14.2. One atmosphere pressure equals 14.2 psi.

Since we have so many constants it's basically a direct correlation between p and t.

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

There pressure when colder goes to 277/294 times 1.85 atmospheres which equals 10.5 psi.

It's why Aaron Rodgers wants a higher inflation. The nfl has been unfair to the packers
 

rideaducati

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GoPatsSB49":245q66zx said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The odds of winning the jackpot in all of the next 5 powerball draws is better than the odds of EVERY football losing 2 psi for JUST the Patriots footballs during that game.
 

Magic823

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50yrpatsfan":187hthe8 said:
GoPatsSB49":187hthe8 said:
bmorepunk":187hthe8 said:
GoPatsSB49":187hthe8 said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The weather cannot scientifically be responsible for balls at 12.5 psi dropping to 10.5 psi (if 2 psi difference is to be believed). This is a simple calculation done with Guy-Lussac's law and I did it in another thread. If the balls were filled and temperature stable at 72 degrees F, it would require them to be temperature stable at -13 F to make that difference. If it was 40 degrees F, it only drops the temperature 0.7 degrees.

If Brady was lying at his press conference he is a terrible liar. You're supposed to only answer enough to make it sound legitimate, not make a ton of statements which sound conflicting.
Yep. I'm right with you there brother. I'm waiting on the facts though especially concerning the real pressure level of the balls. I gotta head out, talk to you guys later

I'm not a scientist, but got this from another board. Any scientists in the crowd care to comment on this?

PV=nRT is the ideal gas law.
p=pressure In units of atmospheres.
v equals volume
n is number of moles or Advacados number times molecules
R is a gas constant
T is temperature in Kelvin.

For a football with air in it we can say the volume and the n and the R stays the same for the sake of the following.

So the question I am posing is how does P change with temperature.

Say the balls were inflated to 12 psi-so p =26.2 psi. 26.2=14.2(one atmosphere) +12.
and was done at 70 degrees fareinheit whitch equals 294 degrees kelvin.

The 26.2 psi equals 1.85 atmospheres which equals 26.2/14.2. One atmosphere pressure equals 14.2 psi.

Since we have so many constants it's basically a direct correlation between p and t.

So a 30 degree fareinheit change in temp equals 277 degrees kelvin.

There pressure when colder goes to 277/294 times 1.85 atmospheres which equals 10.5 psi.

It's why Aaron Rodgers wants a higher inflation. The nfl has been unfair to the packers

Bad math. It would take an 80 degree drop in temp to produce the 2 lb. drop in pressure.
 

50yrpatsfan

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rideaducati":33jzkgyq said:
GoPatsSB49":33jzkgyq said:
I hope you guys are his adamant when the investigation turns out empty and that there is no proof the Patriots went and deflated the football after the referees inspected them. Even if Brady asks the ball boys to deflate it to 10.0 PSI so what? If the referees inspect it and its too low, they'll inflate it (or they should) to a legal level. It's what happened AFTER the balls were inspected that concerns me the most. If the referees 100% guarantee the balls were in legal range and they somehow managed to drop beyond a reasonable amount due to the weather, then I'll be skeptical. Right now it's just a bunch of hearsay and washed up, angry players (and fans from a team that lost a Super Bowl 13 years ago but still can't get over it) looking for any excuse they can to discredit the Patriots

The odds of winning the jackpot in all of the next 5 powerball draws is better than the odds of EVERY football losing 2 psi for JUST the Patriots footballs during that game.

Well if it were temperature related, you WOULD expect every ball to deflate about the same.

As far as the Colts balls, those were separately handled, prepared and inflated to whatever legal level Andrew Luck wanted. Also, the initial inflation temp of both sets could easily have been different - one could have had warmer air pumped in than the other.
 

BillBelichick

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I respect your team, I respect the players, I respect the fans. But...

Come on, Seahawks fans...is this really how you want us to remember our 6th Super Bowl opponent? Just another team that got strung along by the media's anti-Patriots hype, not wanting to focus on the game?

Listen to your team..no matter what the outcome of the investigation, this entire situation is blown way, way out of proportion, and a lot of ill-informed people are taking rumors and getting carried away.

Soon enough the conversation will shift from "witchhunt with no facts" mode to "nothing came of it, but they still suck" mode.

Then again, maybe we should just let you guys stay preoccupied with this, and let Bill and Tom go back and focus on the game. :p

No official word has come out about anything, and the "facts" are changing by the minute.

Everything in this thread is either a rumor or an ill-informed opinion.

I know I'm in the "enemies" camp, but we've got to keep things in perspective here.

Still, gonna be a great game between two great teams, I'm really looking forward to it.
 

BillBelichick

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rideaducati":3ap199lb said:
The odds of winning the jackpot in all of the next 5 powerball draws is better than the odds of EVERY football losing 2 psi for JUST the Patriots footballs during that game.

Have you guys seen this?

http://nesn.com/2015/01/dqwell-jackson- ... irst-half/

Patriots using Colts balls in the first half?

If we're going to take all the other rumors coming out as true, you'd think this would matter...something tells me it's gonna get "shut down" here real quick.
 

falcongoggles

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BillBelichick":361suxt7 said:
I respect your team, I respect the players, I respect the fans. But...

Come on, Seahawks fans...is this really how you want us to remember our 6th Super Bowl opponent? Just another team that got strung along by the media's anti-Patriots hype, not wanting to focus on the game?

Listen to your team..no matter what the outcome of the investigation, this entire situation is blown way, way out of proportion, and a lot of ill-informed people are taking rumors and getting carried away.

Soon enough the conversation will shift from "witchhunt with no facts" mode to "nothing came of it, but they still suck" mode.

Then again, maybe we should just let you guys stay preoccupied with this, and let Bill and Tom go back and focus on the game. :p

No official word has come out about anything, and the "facts" are changing by the minute.

Everything in this thread is either a rumor or an ill-informed opinion.

I know I'm in the "enemies" camp, but we've got to keep things in perspective here.

Still, gonna be a great game between two great teams, I'm really looking forward to it.

Like this is our fault? Your coach and QB just lied to your face. They have been called out by Madden, Brunell, Jerry Rice and the entire ESPN staff.

I feel like a beaten spouse getting a lecture from an abusive partner.
 

BillBelichick

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falcongoggles":vec0c6ka said:
Like this is our fault? Your coach and QB just lied to your face. They have been called out by Madden, Brunell, Jerry Rice and the entire ESPN staff.

I feel like a beaten spouse getting a lecture from an abusive partner.

As I mentioned, you all getting caught up by the media-hype..."called out by Madden, Brunell, Jerry Rice..." etc is completely within your control.

Everyone you just mentioned and everyone on this forum is working with nothing more than rumors...100% rumors!
 

Our Man in Chicago

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According the Gamebook for the AFCCG, the temperature at the start of the game was 57°F. The humidity was 100%, to boot. I'm no engineer, but I'm fairly certain that there was no 30° drop. 20°, perhaps.

All this reminds me of

funny-guilty-dog-torn-envelopes.jpg
 

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