Sometimes I Miss Holmgren

[SoulfishHawk]

Shoot, just imagine something DIFFERENT

 

[Maelstrom787]

Just my own opinion. Pete doesn't adjust, and he is way past his expiration date. Would love to see a change, but I'm not holding my breath. We will just see the same sh** every year. Maybe make the playoffs and get bounced the 1st round. Rinse and repeat.
Damn, now I'm basically sounding like Pitt. But, there's a lot of truth in the stuff he says.

But in what ways do the Ravens apply said adjustments to greater success? I'm just trying to understand, because I'm not convinced this is an issue unique to our team.

They held on to Greg Roman for too long, for instance, and refused to acknowledge the pressing need for passing options for Lamar Jackson, which contributed to him refusing to re-sign and requesting a trade publicly this offseason until they ponied up big dollars.

I'm just saying that we're kind of pining for a history that sounds very similar to everything we complain about here, except with even less success over the past ten years...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

We can agree to disagree. Not going down this road with you. Nothing I say will ever hold any weight to you and that's fine.
I think they get outcoached and out adjusted a LOT. I'm ready for some changes. For something different. I appreciate what Pete has accomplished. But enough already. Same sh** every damn year. Followed by golly, shucks, we should have done this or that. I don't want to hear what you SHOULD have done. Just f'ing do it. Change, Adapt, Adjust.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Oh, look. A thread by Ravens fans saying the same crap about Harbaugh that we say about Carroll, even during what has been a very nice year for them.

It's a universal experience.

Baltimore Ravens Forum and Message Board | Harbaugh is the problem - Page 7

This team will never win another superbowl as long as this incompetent clown is the head coach

forum.russellstreetreport.com

 

[SoulfishHawk]

We don't like each other, let's just leave it at that. You'll just talk to me like I'm 5 years old, which never gets old. Your opinion is the only one that seems to matter in your eyes.
And god forbid anyone says one bad thing about the almighty Geno Smith. Ever.

 

[Maelstrom787]

We don't like each other, let's just leave it at that. You'll just talk to me like I'm 5 years old, which never gets old. Your opinion is the only one that seems to matter in your eyes.
And god forbid anyone says one bad thing about the almighty Geno Smith. Ever.

Dude, what are you talking about? I only asked for examples of the adjustments that the Ravens make that Seattle doesn't. I'm not insulting you in any way.

EDIT: And how is Geno Smith now a part of this conversation? I've stayed on topic and have not typed a single insult.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Probably because it doesn't work on a bunch of grown men who are the best in the world at what they do, and are the ones actually playing the game.

Disciplinarian coaches are mostly too focused on assigning blame to be as effective as more forward-thinking leaders, which is why they're getting left behind.

If you want soft, check out Holmgren's teams outside of the OL. Excellent coach, but nothing hardcore there.

I'm not going to get to much into this as there's definitely two sides to it and neither are wrong. I do believe grown men making millions of dollars should be held accountable though without the need to pamper them. I'm a pauper compared to NFL players and if I mess up at work, I get yelled at.

I understand the power of positive reinforcement but you can't baby them either so its a fine line.

Are you insinuating that Holmgren only had dogs on the OL and everywhere else was soft? I don't belive that and I don't think you do either. How many times did Holmgren light up Favre in his career? Remember when Dorsey Levens held out for more money? When he signed and came back, Holmgren told him now we'll see if your worth all that money and then proceeded to rum him to death eventually leading to an injury. Sometimes you have to be a prick to get your point across.

As mentioned above, Campbell doesn't sugarcoat it and he seems to be doing just fine. Again, there needs to be a fine line between the two.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm not talking about the Ravens, one bit. I'm talking about the Hawks. I couldn't give two sh**s about the Ravens. I'd rather have Harbaugh as HC.
If you can't see that Pete gets out coached and out adjusted all the time, you never will.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm not talking about the Ravens, one bit. I'm talking about the Hawks. I couldn't give two sh**s about the Ravens. I'd rather have Harbaugh as HC.
If you can't see that Pete gets out coached and out adjusted all the time, you never will.

You are talking about the Ravens, though. You're using John Harbaugh as an example to illustrate Pete's inability to adjust. I'm just asking what adjustments we are referencing here, because to my eyes, it seems like they've had very similar levels of success and have many of the same issues.

Also, you're saying that I'm condescending, but you're saying stuff like the colored quote to me. I don't know what your game is here, but I'm not condescending to you as blatantly as you are to me.

 

[Mizak]

We don’t need a coach who’s aging by the year to coach these young guys. We need a new philosophy with young guys buying into the system.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You are talking about the Ravens, though. You're using John Harbaugh as an example to illustrate Pete's inability to adjust. I'm just asking what adjustments we are referencing here, because to my eyes, it seems like they've had very similar levels of success and have many of the same issues.

Also, you're saying that I'm condescending, but you're saying stuff like the colored quote to me. I don't know what your game is here, but I'm not condescending to you as blatantly as you are to me.

Clearly, it's a defense mechanism for the several times you've talked to me like I'm 10 years old.


I've said what I needed to say. Pete and his coaches don't adjust, nearly enough, not sure what else to say. It's the same sh** every damn year.
I apologize Mael, I'm still pissed off about Sunday. So I jumped to conclusions

 

[BASF]

I would like to know what people here think “accountability” means.
It gets posted a lot that Pete doesn’t hold the players “accountable”, I have a hard time believing that a coach with a proven track record does not address man to man the mission, methods and expectations.

So should he bench players, fine them, berate them on the sideline for the camera and fans at home to see, toss them under the bus in his post game?

I would say that the ultimate accountability comes at contract time. If these adult men aren’t playing within the system and meeting the coaches expectations they won’t get the next deal.

But for outsiders who have zero idea what happens behind the doors of the VMac to claim that Pete never admonishes or holds players accountable seems like a stretch.

And before all the “but Russ” screech’s start I will say that it doesn’t mean different players don’t get different approaches(just like real life). I feel like Pete is a straight shooter with his players and if he has a problem he talks face to face without unnecessary posturing and emotion…like an adult.

It is interestng that KJ Wright addressed this specifically, I believe on Brock and Salk. He laughed when one of them asked him about Carroll not holding people accountable and said they are spoken to one on one.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points ^
While he does seem a little too "let them be who they are" I'm sure behind closed doors it's a different story. Just look at DK since that last tantrum. He doesn't miss game, next game he's out "injured" and hasn't had a single issue since.
His teams do lead the league in penalties, often, so sometimes I do feel like they lack discipline. Well, often.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Dude, what are you talking about? I only asked for examples of the adjustments that the Ravens make that Seattle doesn't. I'm not insulting you in any way.

EDIT: And how is Geno Smith now a part of this conversation? I've stayed on topic and have not typed a single insult.

Hard to give examples for teams you dont pay attention to. Baltimore might be the best team in the league right now so i'm sure their doing something right.

When we talk about adjustments or lack of therefore, there are examples we can list though. Pete seems to stick with the game plan no matter what whether if it seems to be working or not, thus the old saying - "trying to fit a square peg into a round hole". Of course there were the times when Wilson would just start playing sandlot in the 4th quarter because the game plan had to be thrown out due to being ineffective, but that's not adjusting. That was desperation.

Take McVay for an instance. He observes the first half and if what he is doing isn't working, he changes it up in the second. Pete does not do that or seldom does it. He believes in execution and wearing teams down and that's not good enough a lot of the times.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Why? Society to soft these days?

this right here, SOFT AF. Aww you don't wike you widdle feewings hurt when the big bad man yells at you? Do your focking job and shut your whiney trap. I'd much rather play for Holmgren.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

When HolmGRUM (couldn't resist) got pi**ed off, oh man. Players wouldn't even look him in the eye

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I'm watching Pete's presser the other day and he looked almost happy. Chill, relaxed. I then thought, "How would Holmgren look in his press conference coming off that loss?"

I'll tell you how. Red faced. Hot. Pissed off. As a coach should be.

As undisciplined as this team really is, these are the times I wish Holmgren were still our coach. I will always be grateful for Pete Carroll and what he gave our franchise, but it's crystal clear that his Sun is setting and the team needs more than a Player's Coach right now. You need discipline. A coach that erupts on the sideline when there is penalty after penalty.

Say what you want about Mike Holmgren but boy did he have the respect of his players. Add Chuck Knox to that mix as well.

I love ya Pete, but you need to retire.

A little Dennis Green action for ya

 

[Mizak]

Hard to give examples for teams you dont pay attention to. Baltimore might be the best team in the league right now so i'm sure their doing something right.

When we talk about adjustments or lack of therefore, there are examples we can list though. Pete seems to stick with the game plan no matter what whether if it seems to be working or not, thus the old saying - "trying to fit a square peg into a round hole". Of course there were the times when Wilson would just start playing sandlot in the 4th quarter because the game plan had to be thrown out due to being ineffective, but that's not adjusting. That was desperation.

Take McVay for an instance. He observes the first half and if what he is doing isn't working, he changes it up in the second. Pete does not do that or seldom does it. He believes in execution and wearing teams down and that's not good enough a lot of the times.

Pete game plans on what the offense and defense does to the opponents. Here’s the problem.

It seems like Pete and staff doesn’t gameplan on what the opponent offense is going to do to the Seahawks defense and doesn’t gameplan on what the opponent defense is going to do to the Seahawks offense. Ravens, Bengals, Rams are prime examples of that.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

"It's not about what they do, it's about what we do"

Come on Pete, it absolutely IS also about what they do. That's why you ADJUST.

 

[WarHawks]

I do think Pete does a lot of his discipline behind closed doors. Even so...