Sometimes I Miss Holmgren

[Maelstrom787]

Hard to give examples for teams you dont pay attention to. Baltimore might be the best team in the league right now so i'm sure their doing something right.

When we talk about adjustments or lack of therefore, there are examples we can list though. Pete seems to stick with the game plan no matter what whether if it seems to be working or not, thus the old saying - "trying to fit a square peg into a round hole". Of course there were the times when Wilson would just start playing sandlot in the 4th quarter because the game plan had to be thrown out due to being ineffective, but that's not adjusting. That was desperation.

Take McVay for an instance. He observes the first half and if what he is doing isn't working, he changes it up in the second. Pete does not do that or seldom does it. He believes in execution and wearing teams down and that's not good enough a lot of the time.

Baltimore is doing things right, yes, but so are the Seahawks in many ways that we don't want to see because we are upset.

Baltimore hasn't done anything that we haven't for, again, a decade running. Their temporary hot streak doesn't negate that, to me. We've had streaks like theirs. We had one in 2020. Their fans have the same grumbles as we do. The lack of evolution, the same issues yearly, lack of schematic adjustments during losses, etc.

My contention is that we're not the most objective parties because we are emotionally invested. I think this is just how it goes when you've got the same coach for a long time and he doesn't win 7 Super Bowls.

 

[Maelstrom787]

"It's not about what they do, it's about what we do"

Come on Pete, it absolutely IS also about what they do. That's why you ADJUST.

That's kind of what the phrase means, though, isn't it? Adjusting would be something that they do.

I think the quote is more about not letting the other team decide how the game is going to go. Setting the tone.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I hear ya'
I guess I just get tired of seeing them hit their heads against the wall, over and over again. All while the opponents seem to adjust.

 

[hoxrox]

I miss Holmgren calling the plays. I miss Big Walt and Hutch opening up gaping holes. Mack Strong and the I formation. Miss the automatic first downs on 3rd and short even when teams knew they were going to run it.

Holmgren was a disciplinarian and chewed out his players for mistakes and penalties, but he was also soft in some respects. I remember he would give the players Monday off after big victories and then they would come out flat the following Sunday.

He could also never get the players to play at a high level on the east coast at 10 am. They would always come out flat, regardless of opponent. When they had home field advantage throughout the playoffs in 2005, they were dominate. But when it was time to go on the road, like in that snow game against Favre, they blew a 14-point lead. They just didn't play with the same level of energy and intensity.

Pete's teams lack the same level of discipline, but his teams have that intensity, that chaos magic. Especially when they were leading the NFL in turnover and toxic differential. Crazy plays like the blocked FG returned for a TD. Forced turnovers at the 1-yard line. And of course, the tipped pass in the NFC championship.

This coming matchup, the 9ers have better talent than Seattle, and a better play caller.

We're going to need Pete to conjure up that chaos magic once again.

If he's unable to get his players to play with their hair on fire this Thursday, with the division on the line, under the bright lights, then it's an indication about his current impact on the team.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

If you wanna talk about a pissed off Seattle coach???

No one better than “Sweet” Lou Piniella!

The guy when he blew up on umpires during his times managing the Ms was Legendary!

Too bad we don’t see this anymore!


That’s the stuff of Legends!!! Lol

 

[knownone]

Let's turn that comment into a proposition: Pete Carroll's demeanor at press conferences indicates why this team is undisciplined and commits penalties.

Two unrelated things lead to a faulty conclusion.

 

[hawkfan68]

Arguably the best coach in the last 20+ years, Bill Belichick, would fall into the disciplinarian category. His teams are struggling now but can’t argue with his successes and track record. Even in the modern era.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Arguably the best coach in the last 20+ years, Bill Belichick, would fall into the disciplinarian category. His teams are struggling now but can’t argue with his successes and track record. Even in the modern era.

Oh yeah, it definitely worked for a while. I think he's the last of his breed, though.

No more Coughlins, either. They simply won't make it to the top spot anymore, I feel. The players coaches took over.

There'll still be hard-asses here and there, but I don't think there will be guys whose philosophy is based on being a hard-ass.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Might stop working in college with NIL and transfer portal stuff, too.

 

[DeSeahawk]

I'd like to add that I hope JS stays on board. I'd like for him to have input on the next coach.

I can't like this post enough. You are in my brain

 

[Xxx]

I'm watching Pete's presser the other day and he looked almost happy. Chill, relaxed. I then thought, "How would Holmgren look in his press conference coming off that loss?"

I'll tell you how. Red faced. Hot. Pissed off. As a coach should be.

As undisciplined as this team really is, these are the times I wish Holmgren were still our coach. I will always be grateful for Pete Carroll and what he gave our franchise, but it's crystal clear that his Sun is setting and the team needs more than a Player's Coach right now. You need discipline. A coach that erupts on the sideline when there is penalty after penalty.

Say what you want about Mike Holmgren but boy did he have the respect of his players. Add Chuck Knox to that mix as well.

I love ya Pete, but you need to retire.

He would have been so pissed he’s have steam coming out of his ears and no reporter would talk to him

 

[Xxx]

I would like to know what people here think “accountability” means.
It gets posted a lot that Pete doesn’t hold the players “accountable”, I have a hard time believing that a coach with a proven track record does not address man to man the mission, methods and expectations.

So should he bench players, fine them, berate them on the sideline for the camera and fans at home to see, toss them under the bus in his post game?

I would say that the ultimate accountability comes at contract time. If these adult men aren’t playing within the system and meeting the coaches expectations they won’t get the next deal.

But for outsiders who have zero idea what happens behind the doors of the VMac to claim that Pete never admonishes or holds players accountable seems like a stretch.

And before all the “but Russ” screech’s start I will say that it doesn’t mean different players don’t get different approaches(just like real life). I feel like Pete is a straight shooter with his players and if he has a problem he talks face to face without unnecessary posturing and emotion…like an adult.

Accountability for nfl players needs to be behind closed doors

 

[DeSeahawk]

Side note on missing Holmgren ........ I miss Hass.

 

[Xxx]

Side note on missing Holmgren ........ I miss Hass.

I miss Seneca

 

[OrangeGravy]

Disciplinarian coaches are getting left behind. That just doesn't work anymore.
My feeling is that fans, they want coaches to yell and scream when the fans feel like yelling and screaming. I don't think it does much good. I think that era is long over.

Fans need their feelings validated. Some of them anyway. The fans that think their favorite team's success validates their own self worth really lash out when their team isn't giving them that personal validation.

Players are never gonna go back to hard ass coaching again. Bill was the last one and without Brady, he's losing the players

 

[Xxx]

Fans need their feelings validated. Some of them anyway. The fans that think their favorite team's success validates their own self worth really lash out when their team isn't giving them that personal validation.

Players are never gonna go back to hard ass coaching again. Bill was the last one and without Brady, he's losing the players

Millennials….. smh

 

[Maelstrom787]

Millennials….. smh

Most players are gen Z, at this point. But I digress.

 

[jeremiah]

Disciplinarian coaches are getting left behind. That just doesn't work anymore.
My feeling is that fans, they want coaches to yell and scream when the fans feel like yelling and screaming. I don't think it does much good. I think that era is long over.

What do you think Andy Reid is? Pick up Jim Harbaugh, move on from PC before he dies and has to be replaced by one of the worst co-ordinators in the League... a Seahawk Co-ordinator.

 

[Xxx]

Most players are gen Z, at this point. But I digress.

I’m getting old….

 

[Maelstrom787]

What do you think Andy Reid is? Pick up Jim Harbaugh, move on from PC before he dies and has to be replaced by one of the worst co-ordinators in the League... a Seahawk Co-ordinator.

Andy Reid is a guru type. Not as irritable as Holmgren. Can manage personalities. I don't think he's especially abrasive.

If we're just going to hire Jim, I'd rather wait for Pete to retire. Jim's good, but he's just a slightly worse Carroll in terms of results. Not quite Carroll in the collegiate ranks, not quite Carroll in the pro ranks.