Sometimes I Miss Holmgren

[AROS]

I'm watching Pete's presser the other day and he looked almost happy. Chill, relaxed. I then thought, "How would Holmgren look in his press conference coming off that loss?"

I'll tell you how. Red faced. Hot. Pissed off. As a coach should be.

As undisciplined as this team really is, these are the times I wish Holmgren were still our coach. I will always be grateful for Pete Carroll and what he gave our franchise, but it's crystal clear that his Sun is setting and the team needs more than a Player's Coach right now. You need discipline. A coach that erupts on the sideline when there is penalty after penalty.

Say what you want about Mike Holmgren but boy did he have the respect of his players. Add Chuck Knox to that mix as well.

I love ya Pete, but you need to retire.

 

[James in PA]

I want to see how the rest of this season plays out (or at least this upcoming 4 game stretch). But, I have to admit I'm almost there. The McVay's and the Shanny's of the world aren't going anywhere. Pete is a great motivator and creates a great culture, but you need offensive masterminds in today's NFL. It's now a Mike McDaniel league. And yes, you cannot be near the top in penalties (let alone lead the league) when you don't have the talent to overcome it like you did in the LOB days.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Disciplinarian coaches are getting left behind. That just doesn't work anymore.
My feeling is that fans, they want coaches to yell and scream when the fans feel like yelling and screaming. I don't think it does much good. I think that era is long over.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Disciplinarian coaches are getting left behind. That just doesn't work anymore.

Why? Society to soft these days?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Dan Campbell and Mike Tomlin would like a word........

 

[AROS]

I think what we need is a middle ground. I get that the Holmgren's and Knox's of the world are in the past, but you can still be a motivator with both sugar and salt. I don't mean we need someone screaming and ranting all the time, but man, a little pissed off and accountability can't be bad, and is needed.

 

[LastRideOut]

I liked Holmgren and still do. That said, the low rate of penalties on his teams come with a price- his teams were known as finesse teams. Pete's teams rack up a ton of penalties and that is a direct result of the style of football they play.

So, it's a trade-off. I feel more comfortable with a 3 pt lead under PC than I ever did with a 20 pt lead under Holmgren.

I think PC is closer to the end now, but, how does this all play out? It will be interesting to watch for sure. I'm not very confident in ownership's ability to correctly identify the next coach. For those who are frustrated with the team's direction right now, it could be much, much worse.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Why? Society to soft these days?

Probably because it doesn't work on a bunch of grown men who are the best in the world at what they do, and are the ones actually playing the game.

Disciplinarian coaches are mostly too focused on assigning blame to be as effective as more forward-thinking leaders, which is why they're getting left behind.

If you want soft, check out Holmgren's teams outside of the OL. Excellent coach, but nothing hardcore there.

 

[AK49Hawk]

Disciplinarian coaches are getting left behind. That just doesn't work anymore.
My feeling is that fans, they want coaches to yell and scream when the fans feel like yelling and screaming. I don't think it does much good. I think that era is long over.

What kind of coach would you call John Harbaugh? last time I checked Baltimore wasn’t too shabby…

 

[LastRideOut]

I'd like to add that I hope JS stays on board. I'd like for him to have input on the next coach.

 

[KinesProf]

Fans of every team in the league after a loss:

A) If the coach is >55 years old = "He needs to retire"
B) If the coach is < 55 years old = "He needs to be fired"

 

[Maelstrom787]

What kind of coach would call John Harbaugh, last time I checked Baltimore wasn’t too shabby…

I wouldn't call him a disciplinarian. His brother was a little more in that mold, but it was mostly just that he was quick to anger. Didn't serve his coaching well.

Interestingly, John Harbaugh is probably the closest comparison to Pete, in terms of active coaches and level of success. He, like Pete, is one of the most successful coaches in the NFL over a long period of time. He also hasn't made a championship game once since 2012. They've won a single playoff game since 2014. They've been in the same "purgatory" as us for a decade.

They're ascendant now, but they've hit on a quarterback and aren't just removed from a 2021 teardown. We also have ascendant aspects to our team, especially on D. We're just antsy.

Perspective.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I like Pete, but right now, I'd rather have John Harbaugh. His teams actually adjust.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I like Pete, but right now, I'd rather have John Harbaugh. His teams actually adjust.

Hasn't done him any good compared to us for the past 11 seasons, unfortunately for them

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Just my own opinion. Pete doesn't adjust, and he is way past his expiration date. Would love to see a change, but I'm not holding my breath. We will just see the same sh** every year. Maybe make the playoffs and get bounced the 1st round. Rinse and repeat. He gets outcoached on a regular basis. His time management is painfully bad.
He's a hell of a motivator, but as far a the x's and o's? Leaves a lot to be desired.
Damn, now I'm basically sounding like Pitt. But, there's a lot of truth in the stuff he says.

 

[JustTheTip]

Fans of every team in the league after a loss:

A) If the coach is >55 years old = "He needs to retire"
B) If the coach is < 55 years old = "He needs to be fired"

Some Seahawks fans consistently regardless of wins or losses for the last 5+ years - "These tendencies and the inability to adapt to overcome them are concerning, Pete did great things for this franchise but it is time (and now well past time) to move on before he leaves this franchise in the state it was in when he arrived."

 

[Welshers2]

Who would we get if Pete retires? I want Jim Harbaugh!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I may be in the minority, and I don't care. Would absolutely rather have Harbaugh. JOHN, not Jim

 

[Flyingsquad23]

I would like to know what people here think “accountability” means.
It gets posted a lot that Pete doesn’t hold the players “accountable”, I have a hard time believing that a coach with a proven track record does not address man to man the mission, methods and expectations.

So should he bench players, fine them, berate them on the sideline for the camera and fans at home to see, toss them under the bus in his post game?

I would say that the ultimate accountability comes at contract time. If these adult men aren’t playing within the system and meeting the coaches expectations they won’t get the next deal.

But for outsiders who have zero idea what happens behind the doors of the VMac to claim that Pete never admonishes or holds players accountable seems like a stretch.

And before all the “but Russ” screech’s start I will say that it doesn’t mean different players don’t get different approaches(just like real life). I feel like Pete is a straight shooter with his players and if he has a problem he talks face to face without unnecessary posturing and emotion…like an adult.

 

[AK49Hawk]

I’ll take Mike Macdonald, Raven’s DC who has worked for both Harbaughs