Pick 29, 1st Round - LJ Collier, DE, Texas Christian

[hawkfan68]

They could have gotten him in the 2nd or 3rd round but he’s not a bad player. I thought they reached on him.

That some crystal ball you have.

Yup....it’s called inner-knowing. Some are truly blessed.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

Doesn't it seem like the speed rushing DE's are getting overhyped ?
Seems like it happens every year lately, and over 1/2 of the high picks are never heard from again. Pure speed looks great on college tape and at the combine, but it takes more to excel at the next level.

Collier is a man. He looks like he could eat a couple "light in the pants" DE's for lunch. I'm guessing we're all more than happy with this pick in a couple years, if not sooner.

I think there's some truth in your comment about the one trick pony speed rushers off the Edge. A lot of them aren't great in run defense and some of them completely bust.

 

[Ozzy]

I'm not super excited although I do think he will be solid. That video of him and his family celebrating I could listen to all day though, what a cool moment.

 

[Seymour]

Volunteer mentor !

Damn, I love me some Cliff!

Agree Cliff is awesome!

I don't know much on this guy yet, but from what I've found so far, I like the pick. :2thumbs:

 

[hawk45]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

2nd round:
Wagner
Christine Michael
Paul Richardson
Britt
Clark
Reed
McDowell
Pocic

Outside of our very first draft - where both Thomas and Okung were not derided as reaches like later years - we are still waiting for a first round player to be worth a second contract.

From the second round, Clark and Reed seem like home runs to me in any round, with Britt a 3-bagger and Richardson a solid double.

Comparing rounds one and two it's quite obvious to me why accusations of reaching stick and puzzling why anyone would pretend it's just casual fans bespelled by the Kiper big board who are complaining. Heck, maybe Kiper could have found a guy worth a second contract in the first round across the last 8 years.

 

[CPHawk]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

2nd round:
Wagner
Christine Michael
Paul Richardson
Britt
Clark
Reed
McDowell
Pocic

Outside of our very first draft - where both Thomas and Okung were not derided as reaches like later years - we are still waiting for a first round player to be worth a second contract.

From the second round, Clark and Reed seem like home runs to me in any round, with Britt a 3-bagger and Richardson a solid double.

Comparing rounds one and two it's quite obvious to me why accusations of reaching stick and puzzling why anyone would pretend it's just casual fans bespelled by the Kiper big board who are complaining. Heck, maybe Kiper could have found a guy worth a second contract in the first round across the last 8 years.

So basically you don't think Irvin was worth a 2nd contract? He hot paid more than we wanted to pay, sure, but he was worth a 2nd contract. Carpenter played for years after leaving. Basically, John and Pete are at better than 60% on 1st round picks and you're complaining.

And Penny is an Incomplete at this time, but if he stays healthy I think he will.be worthy of a 2nd contract. But he might end up making more elsewhere.

 

[Uncle Si]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

All but Penny and Ifedi got a 2nd contract (because they are still on their 1st).

Carpenter and Irvin (probably the foundation of your concern) had options declined but were solid starters in their time with the team before signing bigger contracts elsewhere.

everyone of those players is still under contract with an NFL team, consistent starters for most of their careers. Nothing wrong with any of those picks (Penny TBD)

 

[hawk45]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

All but Penny and Ifedi got a 2nd contract (because they are still on their 1st).

Carpenter and Irvin (probably the foundation of your concern) had options declined but were solid starters in their time with the team before signing bigger contracts elsewhere.

everyone of those players is still under contract with an NFL team, consistent starters for most of their careers. Nothing wrong with any of those picks (Penny TBD)

Yeah the second contract thing, you're probably right it's not the definitive metric. They could have picked a journeyman special teamer in the first who got 3 minimum contracts, and that would not be the sign of a good first round pick.

Certainly they found some decent starters. It's not guys who are out of the NFL to be sure.

It's the comparison to the 2nd round success for me. None of their first round picks have reached the level of Clark, Reed, or Britt outside of that first year where they most decidedly did not reach.

 

[hawk45]

So basically you don't think Irvin was worth a 2nd contract? He hot paid more than we wanted to pay, sure, but he was worth a 2nd contract. Carpenter played for years after leaving. Basically, John and Pete are at better than 60% on 1st round picks and you're complaining.

And Penny is an Incomplete at this time, but if he stays healthy I think he will.be worthy of a 2nd contract. But he might end up making more elsewhere.

Yeah as I owned up to Si, the second contract is a flawed angle of approach on my part.

Would you say that any of their first round picks derided as reaches have sniffed the value of Britt, Clark, or Reed? If not, does that meet with your expectations of first round success that we are getting solid starters in round one and popping for pro-bowlers or near-pro-bowlers in round two? If success in the first round is merely solid starters, why would we ever pick there? Why would we not trade down every time? I can tell you I'd be happier with that approach given their first round tendencies.

Time will tell on Penny of course, the issue with that pick obviously is that even if he turns into a starter that position is known for being able to find starters anywhere in the draft and is not paid highly because of it, so if you pick in the first they need to be eye-popping can't-misses. Penny looks to me like an easily-tackled, boom or bust, situational back so far but here's hoping.

 

[Uncle Si]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

All but Penny and Ifedi got a 2nd contract (because they are still on their 1st).

Carpenter and Irvin (probably the foundation of your concern) had options declined but were solid starters in their time with the team before signing bigger contracts elsewhere.

everyone of those players is still under contract with an NFL team, consistent starters for most of their careers. Nothing wrong with any of those picks (Penny TBD)

Yeah the second contract thing, you're probably right it's not the definitive metric. They could have picked a journeyman special teamer in the first who got 3 minimum contracts, and that would not be the sign of a good first round pick.

Certainly they found some decent starters. It's not guys who are out of the NFL to be sure.

It's the comparison to the 2nd round success for me. None of their first round picks have reached the level of Clark, Reed, or Britt outside of that first year where they most decidedly did not reach.

I think its part of the balance of those NFL contracts, and where its hard to measure the true impact of a first rounder.

For example, Carpenter and Irvin have been serviceable to good NFL players. But clearly the Seahawks thought they could use the money from their 2nd contract better and draft similar players.

I think thats what the Seahawks are, whereas other teams (like the Raiders) are more about Free agents.

Maybe the best way to put it is: These guys were worthy of 2nd contracts, not just to the Seahawks. Which then, the criteria for success needs to be on comp picks and how they were used, how their draft replacements fared and what the team did with the cap money saved.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Just heard Brock and Salk talking to Collier.

Love the pick even more now, the kid sounds hungry, mature and wise beyond his years.............i.e. he sounds like a Seahawk. Tough, nasty and he loves football.

 

[toffee]

1st round:
Okung, Thomas
Carpenter
Irvin
Ifedi
Penny

2nd round:
Wagner
Christine Michael
Paul Richardson
Britt
Clark
Reed
McDowell
Pocic

From this list, Ifedi may end up to be the one that truly not worthy of 2nd contract.

 

[LTH]

I think Collier is one of those typical under the radar type Seattle picks... Not a whole lot of college experience but they saw enough film on him to know he can play. He got the mental attitude to be great now its just to see how well he transitions to the NFL...If he buys into Carroll he is going to be a great pick... just my take..


LTH68

 

[toffee]

If Sweat was available at 30, I would be very tempted. But I am liking Collier, he is a much safer pick and shares so much with Bennett. The draft day positive health report on Sweat still sounded like a half true desperate move.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If Sweat was available at 30, I would be very tempted. But I am liking Collier, he is a much safer pick and shares so much with Bennett. The draft day positive health report on Sweat still sounded like a half true desperate move.

I do think John and Pete liked Sweat, but he's more in the edge rusher mold, as in not an every down player........and I think John and Pete really coveted a versatile D-lineman that like Michael Bennett can not only play every down, but move all up and down the line.

Not that we also don't need a speed edge rusher, but I think with the state of the D-line it was VERY important to get that anchor player to build around. Collier seems like that guy.

 

[Ad Hawk]

So basically you don't think Irvin was worth a 2nd contract? He hot paid more than we wanted to pay, sure, but he was worth a 2nd contract. Carpenter played for years after leaving. Basically, John and Pete are at better than 60% on 1st round picks and you're complaining.

And Penny is an Incomplete at this time, but if he stays healthy I think he will.be worthy of a 2nd contract. But he might end up making more elsewhere.

Yeah as I owned up to Si, the second contract is a flawed angle of approach on my part.

Would you say that any of their first round picks derided as reaches have sniffed the value of Britt, Clark, or Reed? If not, does that meet with your expectations of first round success that we are getting solid starters in round one and popping for pro-bowlers or near-pro-bowlers in round two? If success in the first round is merely solid starters, why would we ever pick there? Why would we not trade down every time? I can tell you I'd be happier with that approach given their first round tendencies.

Time will tell on Penny of course, the issue with that pick obviously is that even if he turns into a starter that position is known for being able to find starters anywhere in the draft and is not paid highly because of it, so if you pick in the first they need to be eye-popping can't-misses. Penny looks to me like an easily-tackled, boom or bust, situational back so far but here's hoping.

Of course there are different structures to 1st vs. 2nd round contracts, but I prefer to look at # of the pick, rather than round (which by-and-large is just a construct for pick-process, not a definition of player quality or success predictor). We have often taken lower 1st round picks because of trading down, and some higher 2nd round picks, so they are fairly close in value. Overstating the round picked can make seem like round is the problem.

Second, the sample size is quite small here. If we had 50 players in 1st and 2nd round to compare, we might have better data. At this point, we have a weak trend, at most, it seems to me. Our onboard statisticians can perhaps clarify or correct this assessment.

If players like Irvin get paid more by other teams than we're willing to shell out for 2nd contracts, that means they played well for us. I would call that a successful pick.

I expect Collier to be a solid contributor, and expect him to get a 2nd contract here because of the position's importance to today's league.

 

[massari]

Uh oh. Kiss of death from Pete Prisco

29 SEAHAWKS
L.J. Collier, EDGE, TCU
He was one of the guys on my better than team (guys I like better than the scout do). He's a power end. Frank Clark was a power end. I like this pick. Grade: B+

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Greg Bell made a comment that the Seahawks medical staff is pretty conservative on their evaluations so the new report on Sweat's heart condition may not have been enough to sway them.

 

[Elemas]

Collier definitely was the best DE available at that time. Just makes me ponder the trade downs when a better DE was available. Better...being the general consensus you see position/rank-wise. Perhaps they thought the additional pick was more valuable than the separation of skill (if any) between what was available.

My only beef is making poor acquisitions and then compensating later in the form of always trading down to grab more picks. For every incredible late round pick that we've made, we have our fair share of "busts".

The same can be said for first round "busts". I'm not calling Penny a bust but, if he doesn't perform up to par...let's says par is Michel, Chubb....did we make a sound choice?

There's so many variables in that comparison...o-line, a team's RB rotation, etc...we may truly never know.

Loaded statement but, I agree with some other posts that I've seen about arrogance when it comes to draft day. But, ultimately, I don't think there's anymore or less risk in what we do in comparison to other teams.

Just said a whole bunch of nothing...perhaps that's the nature of assumptions when navigating a draft.

 

[knownone]

Pete confirmed last night that they expect LJ to play 5 technique which means they don’t view him as Clark’s replacement on the depth chart.