Is it fair to whine about the refs this time?

HawkGA

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knownone":2dpmt0dx said:
My biggest issue with the refs was their inability to call holding on the 49ers as they were grabbing and mugging Jaran Reed all game. Yet, they called several less egregious holding penalties on us. That level of inconsistency is what bothers me.

I can live with the other fringe 50/50 penalties they called.


If I'm reading this right, the Seahawks and 9ers are almost equal for the year in average penalty yards per game. Yet Seattle was flagged for about 2.5 times as many yards yesterday as the 9ers were. This isn't the first time Seattle has been involved in a game with a team that was roughly equal in penalties going into the game only to come out of the game with a ton more penalties than the other team (the Saints game from several years ago comes to mind).

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/p ... s-per-game
 

RichNhansom

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Smellyman":1dkxvmzy said:
5_Golden_Rings":1dkxvmzy said:
OrangeGravy":1dkxvmzy said:
I'm fine with holding penalties for the most part. Most of the time they are called when there is an advantage at the point of attack, a guy gets beat, or the QB breaks the pocket and a linemen doesn't let go. It's stupid when they start calling them away from the play unless they're egregious. I didn't see every hold called on the Hawks to comment, but you have to play really poorly to have every first down conversion called back on a hold for an entire quarter. Not only that, but if you're playing that poorly upfront, there would be multiple holds on 1st, 2nd down as well. I think it's really easy for refs to zero in on a backup struggling and almost get tunnel vision. At that point you almost need something else crazy to happen to reset the refs focus and get him off the guy's jock

Now, PI is a joke in football anymore. There are a number of PI calls every week on the Defense when the receiver clearly pushes off and the defender has done absolutely nothing. The way they call penalties on defenses makes the game hard to take seriously anymore.
This one, however, was not as bad a call as people are claiming (pic found on Griffin's twitter in the replies):

Dumnp WAWo AAn Jc M jpg large

It's the one everyone is saying wasn't PI. I mean, is hooking the WR when the ball is still in the air necessarily legal? At the very best you could claim it was a judgement call, but certainly not a bad call.

Arm is allowed to be there as long as it doesn't pull or hold.

Watch in real time. It is there for about 1/1000th of a second and does nothing.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TheLydiaCruz/status/1074459747623985152[/tweet]

This is rather hilarious to me. 5rings is trying to justify these calls in any way he can. You have to be desperate to try and justify that call or really the end of the game officiating. It was beyond blatant the officials were not about to let Seattle move the ball to take a late game lead and were also willing to assist the 9ers as needed.

Here's the thing, I can admit the previous match up was also officiated poorly and favored the Seahawks with multiple bad or questionable calls. I called them out in game time and said I hate winning a game this way. That game though was not decided by officiating, the officiating just muddied the game and made in un-enjoyable to watch.

This game was even more blatant and directly effected the outcome.

The problem I have with this is it ruins the sport. Plain and simple. Every time I hear about an upset in the NFL I immediately question if it really was and upset or did the NFL manufacture the win.

We will still make the playoffs and probably still get the 5 seed, so it really has no bearing on our season and insult to injury for the 9ers, it's a meaningless win that any respectable fan and likely every 9er player and coach knows was not a real win and while losing multiple spots in draft position you don't even get the benefit of feeling like you are improving or building something because it was a fake win.

Really a lose lose for the 9ers and the NFL in my opinion.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Not only is it fair, it was a flat out factor in the game. It should never be like that. Shoot, my Niner friends at work BOTH told me that the Hawks got shafted, though we agreed the refs sucked for both teams.
 

SeaChat

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OH GOD YES! It’s absolutely alright to talk about the officiating of this game and every other game dating back to the point in NFL history, when they appointed themselves as the Fox’s guarding the Hen House. It’s not only Alright, it’s absolutely necessary, if we ever hope to see change.

For those of you who prefer short to the point post, consider what you have read thus far as my conenced version just for you. For those who appreciate a well thought out and reasoned reply then feel free to read on. If you get bored the last sentencem, I get that too. I kept looking for a quick response to this post but most that read my post know that I've always maintained the importance for the Seahawk Game Plans to consider and allow for the influenced our NFL Officials may have in store for us from game to game. Sometmes they want us to win, sometimes they do not, and we need to be prepared for those games where they would rather we didn't' win, like this game against the 49ers.

The day the NFL ordained itself the Head Fox Guarding the Hen House, was the day that the NFL gave itself the keys to the candy store and unchallengeable ability to an almost insurmountable degree, to influence the outcome of every teams success or failure over the course of each season thereafter.

Why in God’s name the fans would stand still for this to occur, will forever baffle me. Consider that the NFL in and of itself has the most to win or lose in which teams are able to fill the seats in their home stadiums, which teams generate the largest slices of the pie for the NFL should they advance, and how far they should advance over the course of any given season, and which teams will generate the largest slice of the pie when they meet for the Super Bowl Championship Game each year.

Am I saying that the NFL and its interlinked network of Officials both on the field and officiating from the NFL Headquarters, overseeing, reviewing, and ruling over game altering penalties in each and every game played from the start to the end of every season, might take advantage of that ultimate authority that they have granted themselves?

Hell yes that is what I'm saying. There is an old truth, that money is the root of all evil, and if you want to uncover the truth about the prospects of corruption running rampant in the NFL by means of its officiating, it doesn’t';t take a Sherlock Holmes to track the courses of each season since the NFL made this back door power grab. Which teams were allowed to advance, which teams were denied, which teams found themselves in the play offs and ultimately which teams found themselves in the Super Bowls.

Even with all this power and influence at their fingertips, there are teams that have managed to overcome their best efforts to steer and influence the outcome in every instance. The NFL has progressively become more brazen in their efforts over the years, calling ghost penalties at critical game deciding moments, calling "Ticky Tack Penalties" as has become the catch or code word when they call penalties that are borderline at best, that they have not called on either team in the course of a game, or even worse when the do call it when the team that is intended to loose is about to defeat their opponents in spite of everything the officials have done to see it end otherwise.

Then there are the reviewable plays, where it appears to everyone in the world to be a game winning score, and is instead ruled otherwise, and in doing so ultimately denies that team the win they deserved to win if all was fair and equal.

Please hear me when I say that I'm not being HOMER, here, this corruption runs throughout the entire NFL, and affects teams and fans everywhere. As much as I've focused on how teams are hurt by this type of corruption, there is the other side of that same coin. A great number of teams are helped by this same sort of corruption. The Seahawks included. We get the Officials Favorite Son treatment in the games that they intended for us to win and even then sometimes our opponents are able to overcome all that influence and defeat us. There are also many instances in the Seahawks case when we also manage to overcome all the influences of the Officials, and come away with a win, where they had done everything they could to defeat us.

I do credit Russell Wilson and his incredible spirit and determination to overcome everything they throw in his path, and to never give up. I’m convinced that Russell is a major thorn in the side of the NFL Officials, and that he has repeatedly overcome their best efforts to deny the Seahawks a win, and has done so often enough to keep us in the running.,

In a few replies posters asked that some bits of evidence be presented to support his desire to cry fouls, in this last meeting specifically. Go back and review the very 1st kickoff to the 49ers where they returned it for a touchdown, the only time this season. You will see the commentators calling the game both say "this one is coming back" and provided freeze frames, highlighting 3 separate penalties committed by the 49ers, and all of which prevented a Seahawk player from stopping the return, between the 15 and 20 yard lines, I'll list them below. In all three instances there were a minimum of 2 if not 3 Officials with a direct line of view and not one of them even so much as motioned for a flag.

Because no Official threw a flag, no penalties occurred and then even though the play was mandatorily reviewed, they ruled it a touchdown anyway. Not because they didn't see all the pentacles that occurred during the play, but because no penalty had been called by an official on the field. Ask yourself why when the commentators and millions of others watching the play on their televisions saw the penalties that the Officials on the field did not so much as motion for a flag. Could it be because they were directed through their networked ear pieces that every Official wears, to turn a blind eye to any penalties that might have negated that play and score?

The Penalties that were circled on the freeze frames were:

1. A Wedge or Double Team block of a Seahawk Defender in pursuit of the return man.
2. Holding a Seahawk player with an arm around the chest and grasping the jersey with their hand.
3. Holding a Seahawk player and pushing him to the ground from behind, landing on top of him.

In all three instances the Seahawk players were in route to the return man and if not illegally blocked, would very likely have tackled or forced out of bounds the return man between the 15 and 20 yard line and in a game where all things were fair and equal, the penalties would have been called ad the most severe accepted, which at best would have put the 49ers back at their own 10 yard line, 1st and 20.

Much like the questionable penalty that was called on the Seahawks in Overtime, when Tyler came down with that pass that would have almost certainly given the Seahawks a VIN via a field goal. Instead well after Tyler’s catch was ruled good, out comes a holding flag, no replay was ever shown, and I don't recall any Seahawk player specifically being cited,, but that was the nail in the coffin for the Seahawks, who were put back at their 10 yard line, with too many yards to convert, and were forced to punt, leaving the 49ers almost in field goal range with 4 downs to go. .



Go Seahawks!
2019 Super Bowl LIII Champions!
 

Sgt. Largent

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pacific101":2v09oeuc said:
Why in God’s name the fans would stand still for this to occur, will forever baffle me.!

Because we love gambling, which is the biggest reason the NFL is still gaining in popularity, ratings and interest.

The NFL explosion came at the perfect storm of the high speed internet age and ADD addled sports fans that need their football in perfect dumbed down Red Zone snippets of exciting scoring plays, and it's back to checking their fantasy football scores like a deranged lab rat clicking the refresh over and over.

So honestly, most sports fans care little for the integrity of the game, or how officiating is wrecking it. Because most of those people aren't really sports fans, they just gamblers waiting for their next fix.
 

ivotuk

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Damn straight! I'll complain about anything I want to. That's just my nature! I'm a Grumpy Old Man!

But actually, I agree with what Dave Wyman said: "There were those kind holding of calls to make all game long. So if you're going to call it that way, do it all game long. Don't wait until late in the 4th quarter to start throwing the flag on those!"

The only gripe I had was the PI against Shaquille, that wasn't even close.

The personal foul against Coleman should have been on both of them, as the SF player hit him a second time after he was already down. Unfortunately, Coleman retaliated. And he got a flag that set is back.

And the holding call against DeLano Hill was pretty weak.
 

5_Golden_Rings

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Smellyman":3hg4cv3q said:
5_Golden_Rings":3hg4cv3q said:
OrangeGravy":3hg4cv3q said:
I'm fine with holding penalties for the most part. Most of the time they are called when there is an advantage at the point of attack, a guy gets beat, or the QB breaks the pocket and a linemen doesn't let go. It's stupid when they start calling them away from the play unless they're egregious. I didn't see every hold called on the Hawks to comment, but you have to play really poorly to have every first down conversion called back on a hold for an entire quarter. Not only that, but if you're playing that poorly upfront, there would be multiple holds on 1st, 2nd down as well. I think it's really easy for refs to zero in on a backup struggling and almost get tunnel vision. At that point you almost need something else crazy to happen to reset the refs focus and get him off the guy's jock

Now, PI is a joke in football anymore. There are a number of PI calls every week on the Defense when the receiver clearly pushes off and the defender has done absolutely nothing. The way they call penalties on defenses makes the game hard to take seriously anymore.
This one, however, was not as bad a call as people are claiming (pic found on Griffin's twitter in the replies):

Dumnp WAWo AAn Jc M jpg large

It's the one everyone is saying wasn't PI. I mean, is hooking the WR when the ball is still in the air necessarily legal? At the very best you could claim it was a judgement call, but certainly not a bad call.

Arm is allowed to be there as long as it doesn't pull or hold.

Watch in real time. It is there for about 1/1000th of a second and does nothing.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TheLydiaCruz/status/1074459747623985152[/tweet]
The point is this makes the call a judgement call, not a terrible call.
 

5_Golden_Rings

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RichNhansom":panv3r0a said:
Smellyman":panv3r0a said:
5_Golden_Rings":panv3r0a said:
OrangeGravy":panv3r0a said:
I'm fine with holding penalties for the most part. Most of the time they are called when there is an advantage at the point of attack, a guy gets beat, or the QB breaks the pocket and a linemen doesn't let go. It's stupid when they start calling them away from the play unless they're egregious. I didn't see every hold called on the Hawks to comment, but you have to play really poorly to have every first down conversion called back on a hold for an entire quarter. Not only that, but if you're playing that poorly upfront, there would be multiple holds on 1st, 2nd down as well. I think it's really easy for refs to zero in on a backup struggling and almost get tunnel vision. At that point you almost need something else crazy to happen to reset the refs focus and get him off the guy's jock

Now, PI is a joke in football anymore. There are a number of PI calls every week on the Defense when the receiver clearly pushes off and the defender has done absolutely nothing. The way they call penalties on defenses makes the game hard to take seriously anymore.
This one, however, was not as bad a call as people are claiming (pic found on Griffin's twitter in the replies):

Dumnp WAWo AAn Jc M jpg large

It's the one everyone is saying wasn't PI. I mean, is hooking the WR when the ball is still in the air necessarily legal? At the very best you could claim it was a judgement call, but certainly not a bad call.

Arm is allowed to be there as long as it doesn't pull or hold.

Watch in real time. It is there for about 1/1000th of a second and does nothing.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TheLydiaCruz/status/1074459747623985152[/tweet]

This is rather hilarious to me. 5rings is trying to justify these calls in any way he can. You have to be desperate to try and justify that call or really the end of the game officiating. It was beyond blatant the officials were not about to let Seattle move the ball to take a late game lead and were also willing to assist the 9ers as needed.

Here's the thing, I can admit the previous match up was also officiated poorly and favored the Seahawks with multiple bad or questionable calls. I called them out in game time and said I hate winning a game this way. That game though was not decided by officiating, the officiating just muddied the game and made in un-enjoyable to watch.

This game was even more blatant and directly effected the outcome.

The problem I have with this is it ruins the sport. Plain and simple. Every time I hear about an upset in the NFL I immediately question if it really was and upset or did the NFL manufacture the win.

We will still make the playoffs and probably still get the 5 seed, so it really has no bearing on our season and insult to injury for the 9ers, it's a meaningless win that any respectable fan and likely every 9er player and coach knows was not a real win and while losing multiple spots in draft position you don't even get the benefit of feeling like you are improving or building something because it was a fake win.

Really a lose lose for the 9ers and the NFL in my opinion.
He had his arm wrapped around the WR. That in the very least makes the call a judgment call, not a "terrible call." I know after years of seeing holding not called you might not appreciate this sort of thing, but that's the way it is.

Even in this game there were bad calls against the 49ers, and calls for them that weren't made that should have been. The back to back personal fouls, the holding, etc, were due to a lack of discipline.

However, the missed extra point is why you lost.


That said, having the ability to challenge more penalties would improve the game. You don't get extra challenges, so why would it slow down the game?
 

SPIRITOF12

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Vikings fans could have rightfully had this same thread on their fan forum blaming the Seahawks win on the refs. But they didnt, instead pointing the finger at their overpaid under performing QB.
 

Hollandhawk

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SPIRITOF12":2ubi8y93 said:
Vikings fans could have rightfully had this same thread on their fan forum blaming the Seahawks win on the refs. But they didnt, instead pointing the finger at their overpaid under performing QB.

I actually saw plenty of whine posts on Viking forums. And also the Seahawks and Vikings had an equal amount of penalties called on them. And obviously there was stuff missed on both sides. Yet there is only only non call that is talked about. That is a totally different story than a ridiculously one sided flag fest. But nice try.
 

Grahamhawker

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Complain about refs in one hand and crap in the other; see which buys you a cup of coffee first...

Yeah, most get it, but that doesn't make it right.

The league has some serious officiating issues. IMO either by design or they really don't care, so hoping for any change is probably equally useless.
 

SeaChat

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LeaveLynchAlone":31htvyzw said:
Year of The Hawk":31htvyzw said:
Most of the penalties were deserved. Simple. Whine all you want. If we cut our penalties in half that game we win. Refs usual sucky self. One very egregious bad call on the PI on Hill.

It seems you miss the point. You can accuse anyone you want of whining, but I clearly saw what the referees did this game as in other games where they don't call penalties fairly or equally. Enjoy your world where everything is done fairly and I'll enjoy mine where the truth is easier to call out than ignore.

As the saying goes "ignorance is bliss" and I suppose I can see the benefits of pretending the king is actually wearing clothes and so long as things kind of go as you would like, and the betting end of the business in good order, why rock the boat, right?

There is another saying along the same lines "contempt prior to investigation is guaranteed to keep a man in everlasting ignorance", turning a blind eye and pretending it isn't so, is the one sure way to insure that any change will ever come. Most Professional Sports that have traveled this trail have suffered a tremendous loss of the fan base, when the truth is finally made evident.

I'm just saying that we need to all let the King know he's bare ass naked and starting to look pretty damn stupid running around in with his bare ass in the wind, pretending to be clothed. Only then will he become motivated to put some real clothes back on, and begin to honor the position he's been granted, and restore some sense of dignity back to the Kingdom.

I'll also remind readers that one of the Officials from the Seahawk vs Steelers Super Bowl game, where the King was most glaringly naked, did eventually come forward, and admitted to being a part to some "less than honorable Officiating in the game", that assured that the Seahawks were soundly defeated. He did at least own his part in it, and offered the Seahawks team and it's fans, a heart felt apology for his being a party to it.

An apology without fixing what was broken does little good, but I'll take it, because if a few more Officials, find the courage to step up and get honest, it would all change overnight. As a closing note, that Official, is no longer an Official.

Go Seahawks !
 

BestInTheWest

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The way I see it is that if we're going to whine about the refs one game, we should do it for all games. We got the benefit of the doubt tonight on multiple occasions.
 

Uncle Si

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BestInTheWest":2kglwod6 said:
The way I see it is that if we're going to whine about the refs one game, we should do it for all games. We got the benefit of the doubt tonight on multiple occasions.

Felt that way..

didnt think the chiefs had much to complain about, but they were certainly on the wrong end of the closer calls
 

Vesuve

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MLOhawks":19773tj7 said:
That was a horrible called game. So many ticky tack calls against us.

Does anyone else think that KC had a delay of game with about 4:50 left in the 4th quarter.

The play clock hit red 0:00, and then they snapped the ball a 1/2 second later. Maybe 1 full second later.

Anyone feel the same on this?
 

SeaChat

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BestInTheWest":2k1b88ci said:
The way I see it is that if we're going to whine about the refs one game, we should do it for all games. We got the benefit of the doubt tonight on multiple occasions.


What you said in a nutshell, what I was trying to say, I was not playing the Homer advocate in this one, I want to see our game given back to us, where even handed officiating is the rule and not the exception. As long as it's fair and we get our asses whipped, I've got my big boy pants on and will take it like a man, I just hate it when the officials continue to exert their influences in to our games to try and dictate which teams win, which teams lose and what the point spreads are.

The NFL is making plenty enough profit without having to try and control every aspect and every outcome of every game, in order to maximize their profits. Hell I vote that every fan donate $10.00 each to them, for their promise that they will restore fairness and even handed officiating back into our games. I can overlook mistakes and plain poor officiating. I refuse to play dumb, to what are clearly attempts, by our Officials, to steer games to a desired outcome, wherein the NFL and worse yet the Odds Makers profits are maximized by their outcomes.

Go Seahawks!
2019 Super Bowl Champions, Damn the Officials, we shall overcome :) !
 
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