All Kidding Aside...Would You Fire Bevell?

[theENGLISHseahawk]

No.

This is ridiculous.

Sgt Largent nailed it.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

We saw what Russell and Bevell can do at the end of last season when Lynch went down. Highest rated offense in the league for the last half of the season.

And they ran it against Miami as well. Would have been great without Lockett's drops.

So...why didn't they run it this week?

 

[Ozzy]

No.

This is ridiculous.

Sgt Largent nailed it.

Rob I always respect your opinion so I'm curious do you think Bevell's game plan was spot on yesterday?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We saw what Russell and Bevell can do at the end of last season when Lynch went down. Highest rated offense in the league for the last half of the season.

And they ran it against Miami as well. Would have been great without Lockett's drops.

So...why didn't they run it this week?

Because the Ram's front 7 makes it impossible for us to do just about anything on offense. Run, pass.......it doesn't matter. They just maul our lineman and smother our small WR's to death.

Pete is a GREAT coach, but he's stubborn too. He wants to be the more physical team, on both sides of the ball. It's just not true against the Ram's D. They punch us in the mouth every time.

You beat that by doing what the Niners did, and what teams do against our over pursuing over aggressive defense. Run the ball right at them and take advantage of their over pursuing over aggressive defense to make mistakes. Unfortunately you need at least an above average O-line to do that, of which we don't have.

 

[jammerhawk]

I have gone back and forth on Bevell but now am firmly in the he needs to be replaced camp. I want him gone after this season. He's not head coach material and barely is capable as an NFL OC.

Any coach that goes away from what is working to be tricky and can't call a simpler quicker passing game to assist a QB on the gimp needs to be dusting off his resume b/c he's displaying any legit ability to adjust. He also needs to appreciate that lining up TEs on the outside only works if you do it occasionally. BTW there are 4 TEs on the roster but you'd think not by the degree of their involvement in the passing game.

 

[morgulon1]

I'm afraid that Bevell has become the "Brian Russell" of .net. We don't hear much about Bevell when we win but when we face these monster defenses in our brutal division we as fans do the only thing we can do.

We react.

I get it. Losing to LA sucks. But I'll put my money on Seattle getting their stuff together and when it's all said and done, we'll be in the thick of it. We've gotten used to winning , and even though our defense held the Rams to 9 points it wasn't enough.
We're going to be ok.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Yea Bevell gets crapped on in this forum but it's often deserved. His offense leads in DVOA and other stats but consider the talent.
No other OC has worked with so much talent for the past 7+ years and struggled so much every year coming out of the gate as a Bevell offense has.
Very few OC has had a Wilson or Favre routinely making plays to cover for their conservative game planning.
Good teams win because they have an edge. Ours is the vaunted defense and a small group of gritty offensive players. Play-calling and play design isnt among our strengths.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Yes. Bevell needs to stop watching ROCKY II for inspiration.
Before he came to Seattle he was with the Vikings and a great collection of talent. The vikings offense struggled early in games because they were playcalling a predictable run-first play-action offense. Favre eventually changed plays much the same as what Wilson did in the Miami game to pull out a win.

Favre audibled. Big difference. An audible is the play within a play that Favre switched to because he spotted a tell in the defense.

 

[johnnyfever]

We saw what Russell and Bevell can do at the end of last season when Lynch went down. Highest rated offense in the league for the last half of the season.

And they ran it against Miami as well. Would have been great without Lockett's drops.

So...why didn't they run it this week?

Because the Ram's front 7 makes it impossible for us to do just about anything on offense. Run, pass.......it doesn't matter. They just maul our lineman and smother our small WR's to death.

Pete is a GREAT coach, but he's stubborn too. He wants to be the more physical team, on both sides of the ball. It's just not true against the Ram's D. They punch us in the mouth every time.

You beat that by doing what the Niners did, and what teams do against our over pursuing over aggressive defense. Run the ball right at them and take advantage of their over pursuing over aggressive defense to make mistakes. Unfortunately you need at least an above average O-line to do that, of which we don't have.

So are you saying just hang it up because our OL is sub par? There is no offensive coaching stragegy to mitigate the struggling OL? Did we just get lucky the last half of last season, or suddenly the worst OL we have ever had all of a sudden got WAY better, which also happened to coincide with a major shift in offensive strategy?

I agree with Pete wanting a more physical team, but you have to win games. 4 out of the last 5 against a .500 rams team shows a lack of being able to develop a strategic answer from the coaching staff. Look at hat the patriots do with a garbage OL and a 3rd, yes 3rd string QB. Coaching and utilizing their personnel available to their strengths is what is giving the patriots W's. Being stubborn and trying to force a square into a round hole has been shown to be a completely flawed gamelpan.

 

[Laloosh]

Wouldn't fire him in the middle of the season (not sure if that's the question). I really do think that the offense has more potential despite the OL play. Just wish we didn't always seem to be paddling against the current.

Tough question for me actually. I think we can win with him, I just don't think he's all that great.

 

[Ozzy]

I echo your thoughts Laloosh. Have a hard time understanding both extremes in regards to Bevell but I do think there is potential for more for sure.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So are you saying just hang it up because our OL is sub par? There is no offensive coaching stragegy to mitigate the struggling OL? Did we just get lucky the last half of last season, or suddenly the worst OL we have ever had all of a sudden got WAY better, which also happened to coincide with a major shift in offensive strategy?.

You're asking the offense to play like it did at the end of last year.........with an O-line with 4 of 5 new players, and one switching positions, and a hurt QB and depleted RB and WR core.

Sorry, ain't gonna happen no matter how amazing your coach and coordinator are, especially against a defense like the Rams have.

It's easy to just make 20 fire Bevell threads after every loss, but it's not that simple. Nor would it result in improvement IMO. The improvement comes with more reps for a young inexperienced O-line, our QB getting healthier and TE and WR core all coming together.

I'm frustrated too, but it's more about the dumb mistakes for me. Not seeing what we've seen for a good four years now against the Rams.

Get rid of the dumb mistakes, blow coverages, miscommunications, facemask penalties and we win yesterday.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

We saw what Russell and Bevell can do at the end of last season when Lynch went down. Highest rated offense in the league for the last half of the season.

And they ran it against Miami as well. Would have been great without Lockett's drops.

So...why didn't they run it this week?

Because the Ram's front 7 makes it impossible for us to do just about anything on offense. Run, pass.......it doesn't matter. They just maul our lineman and smother our small WR's to death.

That's just weaksauce, Sgt. Of course the Rams DL makes it tough, but there are playstyles better-suited for that and then there are playstyles not suited for that at all. Instead of sticking with the former - pass-first, get the ball out - we went with the latter. Everyone on this board could have predicted that the run would do no good with Wilson injured. But Pete just had to be counter-intuitive.

 

[mrt144]

I voted "Yes, I think I would".

At some point someone has to be held accountable for this type of offensive lack of production. We are now into the 7th year of PC and I believe 5th (?) year of Bevell. Wouldn't you think by now that we should be able to field a credible NFL offense on a weekly basis? I mean, common on already.

The holes on this offense and the excuses we hear from PC, DB, TC and company just don't hold any water or truth anymore. And the excuses and apologist on this board sometimes are just as bad to read on a regular basis.

If it Isn't the line play, it's the playcalling. If it Isn't the personnel packages, it's the timid nature of some offensive players themselves. But mostly it's the undeniable fact that this team never wants to be aggressive out the gate and dominate in the first half.

AT ALL!

NEVER!

For the life of me I can't see how Paul Allen doesn't see this as well. I do understand that he isn't really a football guy and bought the team only as a favor to the city. But you would have to be a blind man or dead not to see this crap in front of your eyes. Last I heard he is neither of these, so I just don't get it.

PS: I don't want to hear about the Super Bowl's or what happened two or more years ago. I live in the here and now; not the past.

DVOA is hard to argue with though. Despite you saying that you don't want to hear about the past, it's relevant, as recent as last year. And judging by that, Seattle has had an elite offense for at least a few years now. I'm pissed at Bevell too, but I'm trying to not let recency bias play too big of a part.

Whenever the Seahawks have an abbarition game relative to their season long DVOA they look so bad though. They're built to play efficient, mistake free football but if they can't get the former going the latter is impossible.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

No.

This is ridiculous.

Sgt Largent nailed it.

Rob I always respect your opinion so I'm curious do you think Bevell's game plan was spot on yesterday?

I don't think the game plan was spot on.

What I think is the Seahawks played an opponent they've struggled against for a long time now -- with an injured QB, two injured RB's, a star TE still returning to football after a major injury, two receivers got injured during the game and the starting RG was out (plus his replacement was banged up).

There are clear and obvious reasons why the Seahawks offense is struggling at the moment.

Every time the offense struggles or the team loses this forum is full of 'Fire Bevell' stuff because he's the current fan base scapegoat. Sometimes it's Tom Cable. We're talking about an offense that set records last season, has been prolific in terms of points/production, has been terrific in the run game and ranked in the top ten by Football Outsiders.

And you know what -- sometimes they'll get their arses kicked. That's football.

It feels like this fan base has been spoiled so much since 2010 that they now expect flawless perfection. I've seen threads questioning Carroll's ability to develop talent, threads suggesting Chris Peterson as an option for offensive coordinator. Someone commented on my blog that the Seahawks are the worst team in the NFL at the moment.

It's like everyone has lot their heads. Totally gone. Guess what? The Panthers are 1-1. The Packers are 1-1. The Cardinals are 1-1. The Seahawks are 1-1.

They need to get healthy more than anything. Not pull a Bills and throw the baby out with the bath water. And we all know it won't happen anyway.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We saw what Russell and Bevell can do at the end of last season when Lynch went down. Highest rated offense in the league for the last half of the season.

And they ran it against Miami as well. Would have been great without Lockett's drops.

So...why didn't they run it this week?

Because the Ram's front 7 makes it impossible for us to do just about anything on offense. Run, pass.......it doesn't matter. They just maul our lineman and smother our small WR's to death.

That's just weaksauce, Sgt. Of course the Rams DL makes it tough, but there are playstyles better-suited for that and then there are playstyles not suited for that at all. Instead of sticking with the former - pass-first, get the ball out - we went with the latter. Everyone on this board could have predicted that the run would do no good with Wilson injured. But Pete just had to be counter-intuitive.

I agree, but like I said Pete for all his positive attributes is also extremely stubborn. He wants to dictate and be the more physical unit, on both sides of the ball.

So he refuses to let Bevell and Russell open it up or change his offensive philosophies, he wants to grind out games in the first half and have that momentum going into 2nd half of seasons. So I don't have the answers, other than that's how Pete is, and he ain't changing............no matter what coordinator we have.

 

[NFSeahawks]

You can talk about DVOA all you want but when your offense isn't using the most sure handed TE in the league on almost every passing play, there isn't really any defense to stand by.

I still think Rusell Wilson has a lot to do with the success of our offense over the last few years. If you thought we were good last year imagine how good we would be with a competent coordinator.

Silly run plays, silly screens, unnecessary fade routes 2 yards from the goal line. The guy doesn't call high percentage plays and he makes it difficult for the offense to find a rhythm. He calls passing plays before the line to gain at least 90% of the time which is ridiculous. He just has a different brain and it's hurting our team.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I always get confused by the crap Bevell takes in here.

You guys do know that this is Pete's team right? From day one he has given all his coaches and coordinators the parameters for which he wants his team not only be built, but the schemes and plays he wants to see.

Pete's never wavered on his we wanna pound the rock, be a run first physical ball control offense. So that's how Bevell and Russell scheme each and every week.

We saw what Russell and Bevell can do at the end of last season when Lynch went down. Highest rated offense in the league for the last half of the season.

So all you Bevell haters have your vitriol misplaced. Bevell and Russell are just a conduit for how Pete wants his offense run.............and it just looks like crap at the beginning of seasons, it just does. It's a momentum offense meant to shine when it counts, in November and December. September? Err...........not so much.

I don't think anything is misplaced you can claim you want to be "this" type of team or "that" type of team all you want.
Our run blocking isn't as good as it was in years past, that's pretty apparent through two weeks. This is also indicative of not planning for this or building the offensive line as it should have been built.

In order to run the ball you have to have a good offensive line, it doesn't just happen. If Pete was supposedly all about running the ball I feel like there would be more emphasis placed on the offensive line. I understand that he probably hasn't addressed it as much because we were still having success with bottom dweller pass blocking teams and better run blocking teams, plus having Marshawn made it easier as well.

Now no Marshawn and the run blocking has gotten worse.

So what happens now that were not having as much success running the ball?

Everything the OC calls is now under a magnifying glass, perhaps as it should be.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

And they ran it against Miami as well. Would have been great without Lockett's drops.

So...why didn't they run it this week?

Because the Ram's front 7 makes it impossible for us to do just about anything on offense. Run, pass.......it doesn't matter. They just maul our lineman and smother our small WR's to death.

That's just weaksauce, Sgt. Of course the Rams DL makes it tough, but there are playstyles better-suited for that and then there are playstyles not suited for that at all. Instead of sticking with the former - pass-first, get the ball out - we went with the latter. Everyone on this board could have predicted that the run would do no good with Wilson injured. But Pete just had to be counter-intuitive.

I agree, but like I said Pete for all his positive attributes is also extremely stubborn. He wants to dictate and be the more physical unit, on both sides of the ball.

So he refuses to let Bevell and Russell open it up or change his offensive philosophies, he wants to grind out games in the first half and have that momentum going into 2nd half of seasons. So I don't have the answers, other than that's how Pete is, and he ain't changing............no matter what coordinator we have.

I'm perfectly willing to start blaming Pete for some things, and I have been. I'll give you that. But then you have to start asking about Bevell's specific play-call choices. We were back to long sideline bombs on 3rd down this week, and taking Michael out in favor of Alex Collins.

 

[mrt144]

I'm perfectly willing to start blaming Pete for some things, and I have been. I'll give you that. But then you have to start asking about Bevell's specific play-call choices. We were back to long sideline bombs on 3rd down this week, and taking Michael out in favor of Alex Collins.

I mean, to be fair Michael had two good runs in a row and might have needed a spell. To also be fair, why run twice in a row when ostensibly the goal should be converting for a 1st and the first run was garbage. Sure there's no deterministic outcomes and AC could have gained 5-6 on his next run but in the scant plays we've run with AC there's not much basis there, no matter what the specific playcall is.