Why Russell Wilson is washed?

[BlueTalon]

If nothing else, the QB that left the city is still on the minds of Seattle fans.

John?

 

[samwize77]

Is RW washed? Don't know. This year will tell us alot. Its difficult to argue that he is not on a downward spiral.
The thread is NOT about how good he WAS. Its about how good is he NOW. For all we know he'll be league MVP this year. My guess is he'll be a middle of the road QB. Better than some, not as good as others. In my book that is certainly flirting with being "washed".

 

[RiverDog]

I agree in general with your statement, however the 2012 to 2017 Hawks were good A football, yes after the 2015 SB (2014 season), things started to slide. But I put as much blame on that slide to RW as to the rest of the team and PC or FO.

But that is the point, RW was a very good QB in a broken scramble drill for over 5 years, pulling off some incredible hero ball. But once the incredible D started to slide and Marshawn was no longer there his play and the team moved to your C+. So granite's point of 10 years of winning football and trying to attribute it to RW is off base.

I agree. 2017 seems to represent the period of time when the Hawks went from contenders to pretenders. But I would argue that it had more to do with the demise of our defense than it did with sub par play from our quarterback. It was the end of the LOB era and when we forgot how to play defense.

In descending order from 2011-2016, our defenses were ranked 9th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, and 5th. 2017 was the first season that we slipped out of the top 10 since Pete's first year as HC in 2010.

Beginning in the 2017 season, our defenses were ranked 11th, 16th, 26th, 22nd, 28th, and 26th.

There are some teams and quarterbacks that can compete for championships with a defense ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league, but that obviously doesn't include Russell and doesn't include a Pete Carroll-coached team. They have to have solid defenses in order to compete for a championship.

The past 6 seasons have been the epitome of mediocrity, and represents why I'm so frustrated with the current state of our franchise. We have too many fans, and apparently an owner, that simply accept a .500ish winning record as satisfactory, like patting your son on the back for his C+ grade and lackadaisical effort instead of challenging him to do better.

 

[Rainger]

I agree. 2017 seems to represent the period of time when the Hawks went from contenders to pretenders. But I would argue that it had more to do with the demise of our defense than it did with sub par play from our quarterback. It was the end of the LOB era and when we forgot how to play defense.

In descending order from 2011-2016, our defenses were ranked 9th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 2nd, and 5th. 2017 was the first season that we slipped out of the top 10 since Pete's first year as HC in 2010.

Beginning in the 2017 season, our defenses were ranked 11th, 16th, 26th, 22nd, 28th, and 26th.

There are some teams and quarterbacks that can compete for championships with a defense ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league, but that obviously doesn't include Russell and doesn't include a Pete Carroll-coached team. They have to have solid defenses in order to compete for a championship.

The past 6 seasons have been the epitome of mediocrity, and represents why I'm so frustrated with the current state of our franchise. We have too many fans, and apparently an owner, that simply accept a .500ish winning record as satisfactory, like patting your son on the back for his C+ grade and lackadaisical effort instead of challenging him to do better.

Yea feel your frustration, BUT this is the revival, definitely feel the 2012-2015 Hawks reborn with this team. Pete lost his way concentrating on a "franchise" QB and not the rest of the team. He has moved on the team is back, be POSITIVE!!!

 

[Lagartixa]

Someone posted that he didn't play "normal" football......as if that was some sort of critique or slight.....in this revisionist history redo.

They aren't convincing anyone. We saw what we saw. 10 years of winning football.

Yes, that Pete Carroll is one hell of a head coach!

 

[RiverDog]

Yea feel your frustration, BUT this is the revival, definitely feel the 2012-2015 Hawks reborn with this team. Pete lost his way concentrating on a "franchise" QB and not the rest of the team. He has moved on the team is back, be POSITIVE!!!

I've become a 'show me' type of person, intentionally pessimistic until my team proves to me otherwise. I'm tired of getting all jacked up by the perpetual, pollyannaish optimist, the A+ draft assessments, the glowing reports from training camp, only to have it all come crashing down in the regular season. I get more enjoyment out of a win when I'm not expecting it, and if we lose, oh, well, it's what I expected anyway. If I'm expecting a win and don't get it, I start throwing objects at my TV.

My expectations for this team this season is another 9-8, one and done in the playoffs season.

 

[Palmegranite]

Yes, that Pete Carroll is one hell of a head coach!

That too.

 

[olyfan63]

I've become a 'show me' type of person, intentionally pessimistic until my team proves to me otherwise. I'm tired of getting all jacked up by the perpetual, pollyannaish optimist, the A+ draft assessments, the glowing reports from training camp, only to have it all come crashing down in the regular season. I get more enjoyment out of a win when I'm not expecting it, and if we lose, oh, well, it's what I expected anyway. If I'm expecting a win and don't get it, I start throwing objects at my TV.

My expectations for this team this season is another 9-8, one and done in the playoffs season.

I'm with Rainger; My "wish" and "hope" for this team is 2012 all over again, with a top 5 defense, a pounding running game, an efficient and dangerous downfield passing game. OK so that's too big a jump for the D, so let's dust off the 2005 Holmgren-Hasselbeck-Alexander-Jones-Tatupu Seahawks* and say "top 10 defense by points* and improving at season's end" and add "move-the-chains maintain-possession passing game"; welcome to Seattle JSN. And a repeat of the 2012 playoffs, except winning the divisional-round game.

Back to Russell being "washed"; yes, he no longer has his elite elusiveness, and never could run an NFL offense that requires him to rapidly go through a progression of reads, so he is absolutely washed. Russell won't suck *AS BAD* this season, but he will still suck. The real question is how long and how hard Sean Payton will try to force-fit the square peg of Russell's skill set into the round hole of Sean Payton's modern NFL offense, and if he will require Russell to (attempt to) be a running threat. How long until Payton *BENCHES* Russell and puts in Stidham/QB2? I'll set my over/under at 8 games on this.


========================================================
* The 2005 Hawks had the #1 scoring offense (#2 by yards; #3 rushing #13 passing) and could move the ball and score on ANYONE. In 2005 they also had the #7 scoring defense, #27 by yards. (IIRC lots of garbage-time yards given up, but caused many drive-stopping turnovers) I was honestly shocked the 2005 Hawks were top 10 in scoring defense; I didn't remember them being that good, but I sure remember that OVERPOWERING 2005 offense.

 

[RiverDog]

==================================
* The 2005 Hawks had the #1 scoring offense (#2 by yards; #3 rushing #13 passing) and could move the ball and score on ANYONE. In 2005 they also had the #7 scoring defense, #27 by yards. (IIRC lots of garbage-time yards given up, but caused many drive-stopping turnovers) I was honestly shocked the 2005 Hawks were top 10 in scoring defense; I didn't remember them being that good, but I sure remember that OVERPOWERING 2005 offense.

The 2005 season NFCCG vs. the Panthers was one of the top 2 defensive performances that we've ever played in the history of our franchise, with SB 48 being the only one that was better. I was convinced that we'd destroy the Steelers in XL.

 

[RiverDog]

Back to Russell being "washed"; yes, he no longer has his elite elusiveness, and never could run an NFL offense that requires him to rapidly go through a progression of reads, so he is absolutely washed. Russell won't suck *AS BAD* this season, but he will still suck. The real question is how long and how hard Sean Payton will try to force-fit the square peg of Russell's skill set into the round hole of Sean Payton's modern NFL offense, and if he will require Russell to (attempt to) be a running threat. How long until Payton *BENCHES* Russell and puts in Stidham/QB2? I'll set my over/under at 8 games on this.

I honestly don't have a feel for whether or not Russell is washed up. He's one of the hardest workers in the league when he's motivated, but it seemed to me like he got a little too big for his britches...literally, I suppose.

It will be one of the more intriguing dramas to be played out this season.

 

[olyfan63]

It will be one of the more intriguing dramas to be played out this season.

I'm neither rooting FOR or AGAINST him; yes, just watching with interest.
It's tricky after the years of hero-worship of Russell during the 2012-2021 timeframe, only to finally realize in 2019-ish that the reason Russell was struggling was because other NFL teams had figured him out, and that the team was struggling in large part because Russell's contract created a rest-of-team talent deficit, and Russell was vastly underperforming his contract.

While underperforming, Russell became narcissistic, delusional, and divisive, blaming Pete and John for his own limitations and underperformance, and trying to get them fired, and seemed to become more interested in "celebrity" status, endorsements, and personal brand marketing. All the while, Pete Carroll protected him, to the point of coddling. It's all easier to see in hindsight. It's hard to root for such a person, especially after "irregularities" related to his "Why Not Me" foundation.

What I WILL root for is that Russell internally accepts his own shortcomings and works diligently on improving them, and that we see a better version of Russell this coming season.

 

[Rainger]

I'm neither rooting FOR or AGAINST him; yes, just watching with interest.
It's tricky after the years of hero-worship of Russell during the 2012-2021 timeframe, only to finally realize in 2019-ish that the reason Russell was struggling was because other NFL teams had figured him out, and that the team was struggling in large part because Russell's contract created a rest-of-team talent deficit, and Russell was vastly underperforming his contract.

While underperforming, Russell became narcissistic, delusional, and divisive, blaming Pete and John for his own limitations and underperformance, and trying to get them fired, and seemed to become more interested in "celebrity" status, endorsements, and personal brand marketing. All the while, Pete Carroll protected him, to the point of coddling. It's all easier to see in hindsight. It's hard to root for such a person, especially after "irregularities" related to his "Why Not Me" foundation.

What I WILL root for is that Russell internally accepts his own shortcomings and works diligently on improving them, and that we see a better version of Russell this coming season.

Don't forget the Hawks have a Denver 3rd round pick next year. The more RW and Denver sucks the better our pick!

 

[RiverDog]

I'm neither rooting FOR or AGAINST him; yes, just watching with interest.
It's tricky after the years of hero-worship of Russell during the 2012-2021 timeframe, only to finally realize in 2019-ish that the reason Russell was struggling was because other NFL teams had figured him out, and that the team was struggling in large part because Russell's contract created a rest-of-team talent deficit, and Russell was vastly underperforming his contract.

While underperforming, Russell became narcissistic, delusional, and divisive, blaming Pete and John for his own limitations and underperformance, and trying to get them fired, and seemed to become more interested in "celebrity" status, endorsements, and personal brand marketing. All the while, Pete Carroll protected him, to the point of coddling. It's all easier to see in hindsight. It's hard to root for such a person, especially after "irregularities" related to his "Why Not Me" foundation.

What I WILL root for is that Russell internally accepts his own shortcomings and works diligently on improving them, and that we see a better version of Russell this coming season.

I had a friend of a friend who had a child in Childrens Hospital back in 2012 when Russell was a rookie and far from the star that he has become. With no one else around, Russell by himself brings in a meal for their child. He also played minor league baseball here locally, in Pasco, and they did a feature article on the host family that put up Russell and a couple of his teammates for the summer, and she told how she'd get up a 2am in the morning only to find Russell sitting in the living room reading his "North Carolina (State) stuff", the playbook. He was a genuine nice guy, and I was immediately impressed with him. He became one of my all time favorite Hawks.

But something about him has changed, perhaps his divorce from his first wife or his marriage to his second. Despite his flaws, he's still a decent human being, especially when you contrast him with some of the other professional athletes out there, including Geno "Little Dick Syndrome" Smith. Although I won't go quite as far as you have with your description of him, he's definitely more self-absorbed than he was 10 years ago.

 

[RiverDog]

Don't forget the Hawks have a Denver 3rd round pick next year. The more RW and Denver sucks the better our pick!

Good point. But I'm not going to get too excited over the difference between a #100 or #125 pick. I'd rather see them beat up on some NFC teams.

 

[Rainger]

Good point. But I'm not going to get too excited over the difference between a #100 or #125 pick. I'd rather see them beat up on some NFC teams.

Sorry but it could be a 65 to 70 pick. I will get excited about that.

 

[RiverDog]

Sorry but it could be a 65 to 70 pick. I will get excited about that.

Ahh, my bad. Thanks for the correction.

Nevertheless, I'm not getting all that jacked about it.

 

[onanygivensunday]

I don't think that Russ is washed.

If you're close, smell his pits. That should tell you.

 

[IndyHawk]

I had a friend of a friend who had a child in Childrens Hospital back in 2012 when Russell was a rookie and far from the star that he has become. With no one else around, Russell by himself brings in a meal for their child. He also played minor league baseball here locally, in Pasco, and they did a feature article on the host family that put up Russell and a couple of his teammates for the summer, and she told how she'd get up a 2am in the morning only to find Russell sitting in the living room reading his "North Carolina (State) stuff", the playbook. He was a genuine nice guy, and I was immediately impressed with him. He became one of my all time favorite Hawks.

But something about him has changed, perhaps his divorce from his first wife or his marriage to his second. Despite his flaws, he's still a decent human being, especially when you contrast him with some of the other professional athletes out there, including Geno "Little Dick Syndrome" Smith. Although I won't go quite as far as you have with your description of him, he's definitely more self-absorbed than he was 10 years ago.

Right as you said something changed..Fame,money,glory and seeking power.
He isn't that innocent guy anymore,if he came out and said I'm sorry for what I became.
I would respect for that really but as he is it's easy to root for him to fail and get a realty
check.

 

[Throwdown]

Right as you said something changed..Fame,money,glory and seeking power.
He isn't that innocent guy anymore,if he came out and said I'm sorry for what I became.
I would respect for that really but as he is it's easy to root for him to fail and get a realty
check.

Nothing changed that needed to change.

He never expanded his game past the backyard style, then he wanted more but didn’t expand his game to be able to do more.

Russ’ style requires a run game to stay ahead of the chains, you’re not staying ahead of them if Russ is the focal point.

There’s a reason we got worse when all our RB’s died every year. 2020 was the pinnacle of the mid season russ slump, Carson went out and Penny wasn’t ready. Russ fell off and never got back to what he was then blamed it on the coaching.

 

[toffee]

Nothing changed that needed to change.

He never expanded his game past the backyard style, then he wanted more but didn’t expand his game to be able to do more.

Russ’ style requires a run game to stay ahead of the chains, you’re not staying ahead of them if Russ is the focal point.

There’s a reason we got worse when all our RB’s died every year. 2020 was the pinnacle of the mid season russ slump, Carson went out and Penny wasn’t ready. Russ fell off and never got back to what he was then blamed it on the coaching.

coaching and the OL.