Who's more clutch? (DB vs TL)

[BASF]

I totally apologize for bringing up Me3, but it has to be taken into account how often both of the receivers bailed him out on his prayer throws. How anyone can see the circus catches that they as well as Kearse made to get completions and still think it was Wilson's skill is beyond me. The laugh reacts from me is something I am trying to curtail, but such a proposition is comical.

 

[Natethegreat]

The desire to malign Russ is strong with this board.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

They both made Me3 look better than he was, but it was Doug than got Wilson his first two extensions.

Yeah. I was watching some clips yesterday on “Russel Wilson balling out” and over half the time it was either a wide open Doug Baldwin or Lockett making a crazy catch. Either way they made RW look way way better than he may have been

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

The desire to malign Russ is strong with this board.

I think if he wouldn’t have let his ego take over on the way out it may have been more amicable. He gave the finger we threw the deuces and every now and then he gets kicked in the balls as a reminder.

 

[Natethegreat]

You guys realize it's possible all three guys were really talented right? Tyler, Doug, and Russ? Russ made a lot of great scramble plays, amazing throws only his recievers could get and they had the talent to make it happen.
Russ was the king of making clutch plays. Did he let his ego get in the way? Yep, but Tyler and Doug did not make Russ great. They all were.

 

[Sun Tzu]

So Russ at 35 is the same Russ at 24-31sh? Alright.

This is a strawman. Please save this type of argument for the children's table.

 

[Ozzy]

This is a strawman. Please save this type of argument for the children's table.

So most QB’s are better in their mid 30’s? Tell me more.

 

[Ozzy]

You guys realize it's possible all three guys were really talented right? Tyler, Doug, and Russ? Russ made a lot of great scramble plays, amazing throws only his recievers could get and they had the talent to make it happen.
Russ was the king of making clutch plays. Did he let his ego get in the way? Yep, but Tyler and Doug did not make Russ great. They all were.

Yeah the revisionist history in Russ is wild.

 

[Ozzy]

I totally apologize for bringing up Me3, but it has to be taken into account how often both of the receivers bailed him out on his prayer throws. How anyone can see the circus catches that they as well as Kearse made to get completions and still think it was Wilson's skill is beyond me. The laugh reacts from me is something I am trying to curtail, but such a proposition is comical.

So Wilson’s long ball accuracy or scrambling for a big play when nothing was open or protection broke down has nothing to do with him and it was always them bailing Wilson out? I think your negative view of Russ clouds your judgement at times. We get it, Russ left in a terrible fashion and people hate him for it but he was a monster for years and claiming he was only good because of circus catches is comical.

 

[SonicHawk]

So Wilson’s long ball accuracy or scrambling for a big play when nothing was open or protection broke down has nothing to do with him and it was always them bailing Wilson out? I think your negative view of Russ clouds your judgement at times. We get it, Russ left in a terrible fashion and people hate him for it but he was a monster for years and claiming he was only good because of circus catches is comical.

His entire point is bad.

Offense wasn't drastically different in 2023 than 2015.

In 2015 there were 19 QBs who had 3500+ yards in 16 games. In 2024 there were 16 in 17 ******* games.

 

[IndyHawk]

In 2015 there were 10 4K yard passers

In 2023 there were….. 10.

2023 was a bad year for QBs for whatever reason

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

You guys realize it's possible all three guys were really talented right? Tyler, Doug, and Russ? Russ made a lot of great scramble plays, amazing throws only his recievers could get and they had the talent to make it happen.
Russ was the king of making clutch plays. Did he let his ego get in the way? Yep, but Tyler and Doug did not make Russ great. They all were.

Nope can only be one

 

[SonicHawk]

2023 was a bad year for QBs for whatever reason

14 threw for 3500+ in 2022
18 in 2021, 20, 19, 18
13 in 2017
20 in 2016

Basically, passing offenses have been less prolific. His comment was not backed by fact.

 

[Dvl Dug]

Sometimes, there can be two or three different "correct answers."
For now, I'm going with Steve Largent. Doug Baldwin & Tyler Lockett are certainly good answers too!

 

[BASF]

His entire point is bad.

Offense wasn't drastically different in 2023 than 2015.

In 2015 there were 19 QBs who had 3500+ yards in 16 games. In 2024 there were 16 in 17 ******* games.

Has the league increased passing volumn and rushing volumn by season through rule changes over the past five years?

 

[BASF]

So Wilson’s long ball accuracy or scrambling for a big play when nothing was open or protection broke down has nothing to do with him and it was always them bailing Wilson out? I think your negative view of Russ clouds your judgement at times. We get it, Russ left in a terrible fashion and people hate him for it but he was a monster for years and claiming he was only good because of circus catches is comical.

You are better than this PNW, even though I am ignoring your posts, though your status does not allow me to through the system.

Me3 was a great sandlot QB that made a lot of great plays. I have never and will never take that away from him. For his apologists to act as though the receivers didn't bail him out on a lot of throws is weird.

My problem with Me3, as I have pointed out more times than I can remember is that he never really evolved after college, as I had to watch his NC State days as an ACC fan. I could care less how he left the Seahawks, because he did basically the same thing at NC State. His character has always been flawed. That is not hate, it is simple fact.

 

[BASF]

Has the league increased passing volumn and rushing volumn by season through rule changes over the past five years?

I am going to answer this myself actually, the past two seasons has seen a down turn is passing attempts. Perhaps it is the extra game or perhaps we lost several hall of fame passers in the past few seasons and their replacements are not throwing as much. Trying to use the passing yards as a barometer is not the way to judge as health and talent dictate more success.

 

[Ozzy]

You are better than this PNW, even though I am ignoring your posts, though your status does not allow me to through the system.

Me3 was a great sandlot QB that made a lot of great plays. I have never and will never take that away from him. For his apologists to act as though the receivers didn't bail him out on a lot of throws is weird.

My problem with Me3, as I have pointed out more times than I can remember is that he never really evolved after college, as I had to watch his NC State days as an ACC fan. I could care less how he left the Seahawks, because he did basically the same thing at NC State. His character has always been flawed. That is not hate, it is simple fact.

I’m not sure what I said that was offensive? I just disagree. The criticism of Russ goes way too far in my opinion. You can’t have the success he had, and his numbers and playoff success would make anyone else in history a lock for the HOF and not read a defense or solely be nailed out by Doug Baldwin.

The fact you write Me3 every time you mention him sort of proves my point, I think you’re bias towards him clouds your judgement to the point that almost any success wasn’t because of him.

That’s not personal that’s just my opinion. Likewise you probably think my bias makes me too forgiving of his shortcomings and that’s fine too, I don’t take it personally. I just think the counter point is wild. That’s all.

I have zero desire to ignore you. I like your football takes and even when you disagree it’s well thought out and interesting so not sure what you meant by that either.

 

[SonicHawk]

I don't think there is a wrong answer here. Baldwin played in bigger games than Lockett as the primary target. Lockett has had a better statistical career and has had a ton of clutch 3rd down receptions that he seemingly pulled out of his rear. I think we're lucky to have had two similar guys who were game-changers.

 

[Ozzy]

I don't think there is a wrong answer here. Baldwin played in bigger games than Lockett as the primary target. Lockett has had a better statistical career and has had a ton of clutch 3rd down receptions that he seemingly pulled out of his rear. I think we're lucky to have had two similar guys who were game-changers.

Agreed. Even though I picked Lockett it’s also worth mentioning that Lockett was a much higher rated prospect. I mean that as a compliment to Baldwin who was an afterthought and proved everyone wrong.