Seahawks o-line not bad, relatively speaking

[jammerhawk]

The OLine is not that good either, relatively speaking.

The inconsistency is what is killing them, along with a seeming inability to move the pile when they need to move the pile. I'm most disappointed in their inability to effectively runblock at a high level, which considering their athleticism and size should be a strength.

Mediocre descibes them, with moments of positive play and moments of incredibly bad play. Maybe as they all mature at their respective positions the team may have an OLine that can be depended upon game to game

 

[Hawkpower]

I find it interesting how some hawk fans are so dead set on punctuating the narrative about a terrible o-line.

Data rarely lies....and it certainly doesnt lie to the tune of 14th when they should be LAST!!!!!!

The line has been average this year in comparison the rest of the league. Good at times. Bad at times.

We forget that other teams gnash their teeth about their o-lines too, we aren't alone.

Try accepting the numbers for what they are, and at least feel comfortable that despite it all, there are lines out there that arent performing as well as ours.

Lies, Damn lies and statistics

So me pointing out data that shows how poorly we performed against an average defensive line is equal to me being "dead set on punctuating the narrative"

You ignoring my data as a counterpoint is apparently completely different......

When we have faced edge rushers that are decent or a team really decides to go after us like Tampa Bay then we have FAILED. We are one of two teams that failed to produce a TD in three games. I simply pointed out that this was not just the beginning of the season but continuous since we besides lacking experience from our starters also lacks it on the bench

So quite a few of us were adamant about this problem PRIOR to the season. We were told to shut up and see how the team would perform

Now during the season and we point out that it is still not very good and that a few games are raising our average then we are told to shut up because there is nothing that can be done about it now and because 1-2 starters being out in a game is apparently justification enough to perform horribly

I watched the Panthers game last year enough so that I know what happens when we face pass rushers combined with a poor gameplan....

The problem is that we have been repeating it for so long, it has just become "truth". There in lies the problem with trusting our eyes. We have been conditioned to believe that our line is terrible, when in fact they have not been this year.

Bad at times. Nearly decent at others. Average in comparison to the other NFL teams overall.

 

[scutterhawk]

So quite a few of us were adamant about this problem PRIOR to the season. We were told to shut up and see how the team would perform

Now during the season and we point out that it is still not very good and that a few games are raising our average then we are told to shut up because there is nothing that can be done about it now and because 1-2 starters being out in a game is apparently justification enough to perform horribly.

I'm not yelling for you to "Shut Up", never have, but I am asking you....What's your solution?
Everyone recognizes the deficiencies, it isn't rocket science......Like Chuck Knox used to quip, "You Have To Play The Hand You're Dealt"

 

[scutterhawk]

The OLine is not that good either, relatively speaking.

The inconsistency is what is killing them, along with a seeming inability to move the pile when they need to move the pile. I'm most disappointed in their inability to effectively runblock at a high level, which considering their athleticism and size should be a strength.

Mediocre descibes them, with moments of positive play and moments of incredibly bad play. Maybe as they all mature at their respective positions the team may have an OLine that can be depended upon game to game

LOL, and when they finally do get it all together and the continuity kicks in, it will be "Contract" time.....They'll probably wind up getting their big payday somewhere else, then we can repeat the whole process all over again.

 

[hawkfan68]

So quite a few of us were adamant about this problem PRIOR to the season. We were told to shut up and see how the team would perform

Now during the season and we point out that it is still not very good and that a few games are raising our average then we are told to shut up because there is nothing that can be done about it now and because 1-2 starters being out in a game is apparently justification enough to perform horribly.

I'm not yelling for you to "Shut Up", never have, but I am asking you....What's your solution?
Everyone recognizes the deficiencies, it isn't rocket science......Like Chuck Knox used to quip, "You Have To Play The Hand You're Dealt"

Except they weren't "dealt" this hand. This is the hand they chose. They had full control of who to choose for the line. The guys you see there are the ones they chose to go with. So really it's not the hand you are dealt. The hand you are dealt is more synonymous with how the NFL schedule comes out, which teams you play, and when you play them (that's not in the individual teams control).

 

[chris98251]

So what us fans see is irrelevant, Wilson getting hurried and sacked is irrelevant, the running game sucking is irrelevant, points scored is irrelevant, the stats or ratings is the better term say the line is average to good so were all irrelevant.

 

[McGruff]

So what us fans see is irrelevant, Wilson getting hurried and sacked is irrelevant, the running game sucking is irrelevant, points scored is irrelevant, the stats or ratings is the better term say the line is average to good so were all irrelevant.

Here is how I see it.

First, as bad as our line has been, it is relatively average league wide. To me this doesn't say anything about our line. It says everything about line play league wide. If ours is average, line play must really suck league wide.

Second, undoubtedly Wilson bails us out, but at best that might drop us 5 spots.

Third, as fans we want elite. We want great. We want excellence at every position. We want dominance. And thats fine, but it does skew our perceptions, because anything less than dominance "sucks." No, it technically doesnt, but that's what a fan sees and feels by the very nature of being a fanatic.

 

[Hawkpower]

So quite a few of us were adamant about this problem PRIOR to the season. We were told to shut up and see how the team would perform

Now during the season and we point out that it is still not very good and that a few games are raising our average then we are told to shut up because there is nothing that can be done about it now and because 1-2 starters being out in a game is apparently justification enough to perform horribly.

I'm not yelling for you to "Shut Up", never have, but I am asking you....What's your solution?
Everyone recognizes the deficiencies, it isn't rocket science......Like Chuck Knox used to quip, "You Have To Play The Hand You're Dealt"

Except they weren't "dealt" this hand. This is the hand they chose. They had full control of who to choose for the line. The guys you see there are the ones they chose to go with. So really it's not the hand you are dealt. The hand you are dealt is more synonymous with how the NFL schedule comes out, which teams you play, and when you play them (that's not in the individual teams control).

They did choose this hand, they have constructed the team according to their model, and they continue to be the elite franchise in the NFC year after year.

I will take it.

 

[Hawkpower]

So what us fans see is irrelevant, Wilson getting hurried and sacked is irrelevant, the running game sucking is irrelevant, points scored is irrelevant, the stats or ratings is the better term say the line is average to good so were all irrelevant.

Here is how I see it.

First, as bad as our line has been, it is relatively average league wide. To me this doesn't say anything about our line. It says everything about line play league wide. If ours is average, line play must really suck league wide.

Second, undoubtedly Wilson bails us out, but at best that might drop us 5 spots.

Third, as fans we want elite. We want great. We want excellence at every position. We want dominance. And thats fine, but it does skew our perceptions, because anything less than dominance "sucks." No, it technically doesnt, but that's what a fan sees and feels by the very nature of being a fanatic.

Good points.

If Pete and company were to create an elite offensive line, we then would have to weaken a different area of the team to do so. We also have a top shelf QB and his contract to allocate resources to.

I'm not sure this team is "better" with a great offensive line and a terrible secondary or linebacking crew.

NFL teams in this era can't be elite at every position group......its just not realistic.

But I guess message boards exist so that blue friday fans can scream that we should be

 

[jammerhawk]

When they play adequately in pass protection and run block adequately I'm a big fan of the FO decision to build our own rather than paying big bucks for mediocre players. We need to remember the Hawks OLine is the lowest paid line in the league by quite a bit. This line is also very young. They will only improve with experience.

Mediocre at the price the team is paying is a huge win for the FO. With any luck this group will eventually be better than mediocre and that will tip over a few sacred cows. I hope it doesn't take until they need to be paid as was observed above. This strategy which has been the subject of much handwringing here may possibly may prove to be brilliant.

We all recognize Dallas has a very good OLine, as does Oakland, but Dallas will need to start paying their early picks next year and they already have cap to Issues. That will start putting more pressure on both of them to eliminate other veteran high cap players in order for that to happen. It will eventually start to close their respective windows of post season opportunity.

Meanwhile better than average at bargain cost will allow the Hawks to keep most of their key veteran FA.

This is developing picture. We need to accept the bad with the good it is helping the team short term. With a possibility of being a huge win.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Those numbers are misleading. The big yards Rawls put up last week came from cutting back against the grain and running away from our blocking. When he actually tried the whole he got a concussion.

The ''whole?''

Sent from my SC-02H using Tapatalk

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Those numbers are misleading. The big yards Rawls put up last week came from cutting back against the grain and running away from our blocking. When he actually tried the whole he got a concussion.

Cut backs are a staple in a zone blocking scheme. The design of the zone is to stretch until a hole opens (or there is a dark crease), but the cut back is almost read 1B in a zone scheme. It pays to have a back with the vision and cutting ability of Rawls, but that is not all on him.

No, no...! Why study up on ZBS or cutbacks when you can just lazily say ''he ran away from his blockers, cuz our OL suuucks!

Sent from my SC-02H using Tapatalk

 

[scutterhawk]

So quite a few of us were adamant about this problem PRIOR to the season. We were told to shut up and see how the team would perform

Now during the season and we point out that it is still not very good and that a few games are raising our average then we are told to shut up because there is nothing that can be done about it now and because 1-2 starters being out in a game is apparently justification enough to perform horribly.

I'm not yelling for you to "Shut Up", never have, but I am asking you....What's your solution?
Everyone recognizes the deficiencies, it isn't rocket science......Like Chuck Knox used to quip, "You Have To Play The Hand You're Dealt"

Except they weren't "dealt" this hand. This is the hand they chose. They had full control of who to choose for the line. The guys you see there are the ones they chose to go with. So really it's not the hand you are dealt. The hand you are dealt is more synonymous with how the NFL schedule comes out, which teams you play, and when you play them (that's not in the individual teams control).

There's a plethora of fans here on the NET that think they are wiser than Pete, John, Cable, Bevell, & the like, and get all bent out of shape, "ADAMENT" ^^ when the front office doesn't select a player that they've been fawning over, months prior to the Draft.
The phrase "The Hand You're Dealt" pertains to a hell of a lot more than what the League throws at you, I chose to use the Chuck Knox quip because we were talking football, maybe I should have used the term "FATE", as it parallels the idea that I was trying to get across......Boiled down to MY lowest common denominator, random INJURIES can be that card you were dealt, and in this case, Justin Britt missing from the line-up in the Tampa game was a card that was dealt from the bottom of the bad karma deck.

 

[hawkfan68]

So quite a few of us were adamant about this problem PRIOR to the season. We were told to shut up and see how the team would perform

Now during the season and we point out that it is still not very good and that a few games are raising our average then we are told to shut up because there is nothing that can be done about it now and because 1-2 starters being out in a game is apparently justification enough to perform horribly.

I'm not yelling for you to "Shut Up", never have, but I am asking you....What's your solution?
Everyone recognizes the deficiencies, it isn't rocket science......Like Chuck Knox used to quip, "You Have To Play The Hand You're Dealt"

Except they weren't "dealt" this hand. This is the hand they chose. They had full control of who to choose for the line. The guys you see there are the ones they chose to go with. So really it's not the hand you are dealt. The hand you are dealt is more synonymous with how the NFL schedule comes out, which teams you play, and when you play them (that's not in the individual teams control).

There's a plethora of fans here on the NET that think they are wiser than Pete, John, Cable, Bevell, & the like, and get all bent out of shape, "ADAMENT" ^^ when the front office doesn't select a player that they've been fawning over, months prior to the Draft.
The phrase "The Hand You're Dealt" pertains to a hell of a lot more than what the League throws at you, I chose to use the Chuck Knox quip because we were talking football, maybe I should have used the term "FATE", as it parallels the idea that I was trying to get across......Boiled down to MY lowest common denominator, random INJURIES can be that card you were dealt, and in this case, Justin Britt missing from the line-up in the Tampa game was a card that was dealt from the bottom of the bad karma deck.

I agree with you that injuries are something the team has no control over. However, they do have control over who replaces the said injured player.

 

[chris98251]

I will add this to the conversation, we had the pleasure of watching one of the best lines assembled operate for years here, just as Rawls, Michael, and whomever next steps in at RB trying to make our running back situation better Lynch, Alexander, Warner, Waters are the benchmark depending on your style preference.

That's the level we know as a reference to being very good, we make our judgements as that reference fair or not, but we as Seahawks fans know what good looks like.

We can take that reference and apply it to where the present situation is and measure how far away they are, do they look the part even, that's what a lot of us do based on the results from game to game, every team we play brings a challenge to our line at this point because of their experience or lack there of, every coach we play against is trying to exploit what they see which adds to the challenge of our guys to do their jobs.

We are sitting in the film room with our guys trying to figure out how to do their job instead of the opposition trying to figure out how do we stop them on game days.

The Holmgren years that team stated we don't care if you know what's coming, try to stop it, that's a level of confidence this offense is a long way away from still.

But that is also the fans reference point other then third and long and the draw play to Mack Strong

 

[scutterhawk]

When they play adequately in pass protection and run block adequately I'm a big fan of the FO decision to build our own rather than paying big bucks for mediocre players. We need to remember the Hawks OLine is the lowest paid line in the league by quite a bit. This line is also very young. They will only improve with experience.

Mediocre at the price the team is paying is a huge win for the FO. With any luck this group will eventually be better than mediocre and that will tip over a few sacred cows. I hope it doesn't take until they need to be paid as was observed above. This strategy which has been the subject of much handwringing here may possibly may prove to be brilliant.

We all recognize Dallas has a very good OLine, as does Oakland, but Dallas will need to start paying their early picks next year and they already have cap to Issues. That will start putting more pressure on both of them to eliminate other veteran high cap players in order for that to happen. It will eventually start to close their respective windows of post season opportunity.

Meanwhile better than average at bargain cost will allow the Hawks to keep most of their key veteran FA.

This is developing picture. We need to accept the bad with the good it is helping the team short term. With a possibility of being a huge win.

All Of This^^^^
The stars had aligned perfectly for Pete, John & Co., they were able to build a stellar Defense.
We had Okung, Unger, Sweezy & Geico-the-meanie, Marshawn Lynch + a scrambling bad-ass Russell Wilson that was being paid peanuts, they were able to win the whole enchilada.
We still have most of that "Stellar Defense", They started to build around Britt, and we lead 3 games in the NFC West Division, they WILL do better as they get more time playing together.....IF we can keep RW upright & somewhat unmolested + if Britt, Rawls, Baldwin, Lockett, Graham & a couple others can stay healthy, I think we can win it all again.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

---
Patience Is A Virtue: The Emergence of the Seahawks Offensive Line

http://cover32.com/2016/12/10/patience- ... nsive-line

 

[scutterhawk]

I will add this to the conversation, we had the pleasure of watching one of the best lines assembled operate for years here, just as Rawls, Michael, and whomever next steps in at RB trying to make our running back situation better Lynch, Alexander, Warner, Waters are the benchmark depending on your style preference.

That's the level we know as a reference to being very good, we make our judgements as that reference fair or not, but we as Seahawks fans know what good looks like.

We can take that reference and apply it to where the present situation is and measure how far away they are, do they look the part even, that's what a lot of us do based on the results from game to game, every team we play brings a challenge to our line at this point because of their experience or lack there of, every coach we play against is trying to exploit what they see which adds to the challenge of our guys to do their jobs.

We are sitting in the film room with our guys trying to figure out how to do their job instead of the opposition trying to figure out how do we stop them on game days.

The Holmgren years that team stated we don't care if you know what's coming, try to stop it, that's a level of confidence this offense is a long way away from still.

But that is also the fans reference point other then third and long and the draw play to Mack Strong

LOL, We "Seahawks fans" do "know what good looks like", we also know that there are a trade-offs.....With Pete Carroll, you have the best Defense, not only in Seahawks history, but ALL of NFL history AND one of the most prolific Quarterbacks to boot, or under Holmgren, you have the best Offense in Seahawks history, and a so-so Defense.
One stand out player (with the help of Mack Strong) was Shaun Alexander who played a big part in bolstering that stellar Offense....Fast forward, Our historically great Defense speaks for itself, but the Booster in this conversation, is Pete Carroll's team is more complete over-all, as we had Marshawn Lynch, & a scrambling Quarterback that added to the accumulative Running Yards....If I had to pick one or the other, I'd say that the advantage goes to Pete with his stellar Defense + kick butt Offense.