Drew Lock is NOT Josh Allen

quaylar

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Bronco fan with an opinion here.

We're talking about a QB with upside that was visibly coached into a horrible position by his support (and by circumstance). After he went 4-1, capping off the end of his rookie season, the Broncos fired their OC and replaced him with an admittedly MUCH WORSE playcaller (Shurmur). Add on top of that Covid hit - no preseason games were played, training camp was a brief stint with too many covid protocols to learn a new offense. Lock went out in Pittsburgh and got injured early in the game, then was out for several weeks. When he came back, he didn't have Sutton to throw to (injured), and his two leading receivers were two rookies (Jeudy and Hamler). His play never quite caught up to being put in such a bad spot, and the fans in Denver were already writing him off before he even returned from injury. Add in the mask incident, and the covid game that Fangio had to deal with, Lock never stood a chance with Fangio by the end of his second year. Move ahead to year three when Bridgewater was brought in to "compete". Fangio and Shurmur went with the safe option in Teddy two gloves and it went about as well as you could expect - mediocre and some of the most boring football you can imagine. Shurmur is probably the worst OC I've ever seen in the NFL, in all my years of watching the Broncos, back to before Elway was (stolen) from Indy in '84. I was screaming at my TV during the last few games of the season when Lock finally stepped in to replace injured Teddy... I hate to blame an OC, but... you try to watch those last few games and tell me Lock was the problem.

I really hope Pete gives the dude a chance and builds an offense around him. Lock is a fun player to watch and I hope he proves everyone wrong. The knee jerk instant gratification fans of today's NFL need to look in the mirror.
 

acer1240

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Russ never learned how to throw a receiver open. I'm actually excited to see what this kid can do. He was in a horrible situation in Denver so maybe this change will make things click for him.

His introductory press conference was impressive.
 

TAB420

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So what you're saying is we got 2 first, two seconds, and three players but, one of those players aren't better than the one player we traded, weird.
 

jlwaters1

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Hi. i'm new to your site here. I'm a Chiefs and MIZZOU fan from Kansas City. I spend alot of time at Orangehuddle.com...it's a Denver Broncos board.

I've been reading up on some of your thoughts here about Lock. Something that has come up a few times that I wanted to address here, is that some of you are mistakenly comparing Lock to Josh Allen. They are absolutely NOT the same guy. The argument for Lock being like Allen is similar build and skill set. Furthermore, Locks stats compare somewhat favorably to Allens during the same stage of development for both guys.

Here is why those comparisons are wrong.

When Josh Allen was finishing up college and was a prospect heading to his draft day in 2018, he had only been playing organized football for a short time. He was in a very small town, playing with a very limited set of other players and other teams. He went to a small JUCO with limited talent around him, limited coaching around him and limited competition. When he got to Wyoming, he was still very raw, still not surrounded by high end talent and was playing against competition that was also not all that great. Allen had not been exposed to high level coaching, had not been around high level players...and his stats reflected that. The whole premise around Allen coming out...was that he did have bad numbers, but his testing, arm, speed, brain....were all super awesome. The idea was that since he hadn't been playing high level football and had only played it for a relatively short amount of time...that there was immense potential to be tapped into once you got him pro coaching and surrounded him with NFL caliber athletes.

Taking that idea another step further....you have to also look at the Bills roster once Allen was drafted. It was BAD. The entire line he played with his rookie year, was OUT OF FOOTBALL in two years time or less for most. The were no notable skill positon players except LeSean McCoy, and by then he was a shadow of his former self. The Recievers were that started that year were also out of football in short order. Basically Allen came to a roster of garbage. It wasn't that much better his second year, and finally they had churned it enough his 3rd year that he had legit NFL players around him. So...he had ALOT of development and coaching that needed to happen AND he had to start that off with a bad roster.

So..to sum it up for Allen....super tools guy that didn't have much experience or good coaching, that had ALOT...A TON of room to grow if you could get him good coaching and better talent.

That is NOT the Same as Drew Lock....

Lock is the son of a guy who played O line at MIZZOU. He is from the KC burbs. Lock has been playing high level, organized football in a large city with high level coaching since he was a child. He started 4 years at Lee's Summit, MO High...a large class school..and was recieving paid, high end, private QB coaching from at least his Junior year there. He started all 4 years at MIZZOU..an SEC school with other players, some of whom also play in the NFL. He got coaching from some coaches who had been NFL coaches...and he played against high level competition, many of whom also play in the NFL today. It is possible...likely even, that no NFL QB playing or who has ever played, has taken more snaps from childhood, to his draft day, than Drew Lock. His scouting reports coming out of MIZ....were the easiest QB evaluations ever...they all said exactly the same thing about him...and they've all been exactly spot on so far. Lock has a strong arm...makes some really good throws at times..he does have some mobility.....he's pretty good on the run, but NOT to the level of an Allen or Mahomes. He is much better rolling to his right than left. Lock is a GOOD thrower when the routes are linear...straigt line type routes..goes, seams....slants. He SUCKS when there is a timing element involved....he is a see it, throw it QB. And what I mean by that is...let's say the route is 7 yards and then a cut in, or out...or a curl. To execute that where you get the most out of that play, the QB should be throwin the ball in anticipation of the target cutting. Lock NEVER does this...never has. He won't throw a ball until the target has made the cut and has taken a step or 2. This allows the defender to recover and break on the ball. This results in incompletions, interceptoins...or in cases wher the ball is completed..it negates chances for more yards after catch because the defender has arrived to contest things. .....For confirmation of this....just go look at Jerry Juedy...that guy is really good at getting separation with a quick cut....he had ZERO TDs this past year...and underwhelmed. Locks doesn't have the skilset to maximize a talent like Juedy. He can't do it...and he's never ever going to.

As far as what this means for Seattle...it's not bad. Lock is at his best running play action and throwing linear routes. Seattle, with their offense, and what you have at WR...is a good fit for what Lock does best. It would seem to me that the FO/Coaches in Seattle probably really do see a QB they might be able to play with and win if they can get the right mix of players and an offense suited to his skills.

Lock got NO SUPPORT in Denver.

Prior to the 2019 Draft, Denver had just hired Vic Fangio. They (Fangio and Elway, the GM at the time) made it publicly clear the plan was for Fangio to get the D playing at a high level..they would go and get a veteran QB to run a ball control...don't screw it up...don't turn it over offense. They went out and traded for Joe Flacco. They then publicly proclaimed..before that draft..they would not be taking a QB in round 1. That was the year Kyler Murray went 1/1...Daniel Jones went 6. There had been speculation that Denver would maybe take Lock in round 1. ..again, after obtaining Flacco...they said they were not going QB in round 1. ...they in fact did not take a QB in round 1. However, Elway liked Lock and when he fallen to pick 42, Elway traded up to draft him...considering him to great a value to pass up. Fangio NEVER WANTED him...didn't want anything to do with him...and always wanted to just run the D and let the OC and veteran QB handle the O.

Flacco sucked..then got hurt. Lock got to play some and was decent. Lock played most of the next year...in an offense with a bad line...and NOT taylored to his strengths...for a coach who was NOT adept at developing a QB...who didn't want a young QB...and who was not hired to handle any of that. By Vic Fangios 3rd year....he was more or less given an ultimatum to win or else....and he wasn't going to try and save his job with a QB he never wanted..who he still wasn't interested in developing...and who he didn't trust. They traded for Teddy Bridgeater and while many think Lock outplayed Teddy in camp and the preseason...Fangio rolled with Teddy. Elway...gave up the GM role last year....he was the one guy left in the building in Locks corner. New GM...and new Coach...not invested in Lock or tied to him...ready to move on...and are with Wilson.

If ever there was a QB who still might be able to salvage a career after 3 disappointing years....it's Drew Lock. Just remember that he is what his scouting report says he is....and set your expectations accordingly. Get the kid a decent line and running game...and run a bunch of linear routes. You may not be in as bad a shape as some think.

Good luck! Beat DENVER!

A see it throw it guy and not anticipation throwing sounds like the last guy.
I agree with the "See it throw it guy and not anticipation throwing sounds like the last guy." RW for as good as he was he could never consistently work the intermediate game, or those routine timing throws. Slants always seemed to work but they would be few and far between. From watching Lock's Highlights you see a guy taking chances making throws down the field in tight coverage. Despite what this poster says there is signs of him throwing with anticipation. Watch THE QB SCHOOL Breakdown.
Honestly RW wasn't very good last year. Go look at his stats. In his final 9 games, 5 of those games his Completion % was less than 60%. he only hit 250 yards passing once in that time frame. I think the guy deserves a shot and I wouldn't be super surprised if he performs well enough to win games.
 
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Lock should "be throwin the ball in anticipation of the target cutting. Lock NEVER does".
If that's his overwhelming flaw, can't it be corrected by coaching, or maybe even hypnosis therapy?
 

toffee

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Lock should "be throwin the ball in anticipation of the target cutting. Lock NEVER does".
If that's his overwhelming flaw, can't it be corrected by coaching, or maybe even hypnosis therapy?
I suspect it has a lot to do with instinct and a bit to do with confidence. If we are keeping Lockett and Metcalf, he has decent WR to work with, the confidence part could improve once he has a bit of success. The instinct part may be harder to overcome.
 
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Zerovoltz

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...this is the thing about Lock...the Broncos fans always thought this same thing.."he just needs coaching" to be able to make anticpatory throws. I can't stress enough, that Drew Lock has been coached on this for YEARS. He is a finished product in this regard. It's why he wasn't a first round pick...all the coaching that could ever be done to him, has been done. What you see is what you get. ....That said...as in my original post...run stuff the guy excells at. He isn't worthless...he's just limited. Don't ask him to run a timing passing game. He'll fail. Play action. Linear routes. Success.
 
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...this is the thing about Lock...the Broncos fans always thought this same thing.."he just needs coaching" to be able to make anticpatory throws. I can't stress enough, that Drew Lock has been coached on this for YEARS. He is a finished product in this regard. It's why he wasn't a first round pick...all the coaching that could ever be done to him, has been done. What you see is what you get. ....That said...as in my original post...run stuff the guy excells at. He isn't worthless...he's just limited. Don't ask him to run a timing passing game. He'll fail. Play action. Linear routes. Success.
Defining Lock as a finished product after 3 fragmented seasons seems overly fatalistic.
And NFL qb coaches may have teaching tricks beyond those used at high schools and universities.
Some of the timing seems to involve many hours of practice(e.g., Stafforf to Kupp, Rodgers to Adams, Brady to Welker, Burrow to Chase...Peyton to Marvin...)
 

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Great post! I think some comparisons are less about skillset, and more about how Allen was viewed as a bit of a bust over his first two years before things clicked for him, and that its not impossible for that to be the case with Lock if he's in the right situation.

Allen is an incredible talent. Wish we had him. What Lock might be is yet to be seen. Not certain the book on him is as complete yet as some of the doomsayers claim.
Zero is a KC troll. I wouldn’t put much weight to anything he says
 

Rosco

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Defining Lock as a finished product after 3 fragmented seasons seems overly fatalistic.
And NFL qb coaches may have teaching tricks beyond those used at high schools and universities.
Some of the timing seems to involve many hours of practice(e.g., Stafforf to Kupp, Rodgers to Adams, Brady to Welker, Burrow to Chase...Peyton to Marvin...)
He’s trolling. He’d come to the orange mane doing the same crap.
 
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Zerovoltz

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How is this "trolling"? I gave an assesment of the differences in the two QB's that Lock and Allen are...then elaborated about what Lock is, what he does well and what he doesn't do well...I am not here to incite any hostilities or to piss in anyones cornflakes here. ...furthermore...as a Chiefs fan.....of what value is trolling the Seahawks? ...I happily admit to trolling and cajoling Broncos fans .....by the way, if you aren't already there, alot of the old Orangemane folks are now on Orangehuddle....you should check it out. ...anyhow..I didn't show up here to troll....I am interested in Lock as a Kansas Citian and MIZZOU fan and wanted to chime in.

Furthermore...if you were on the Mane during that draft year...I was all over that place BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED....giving this exact same assesment.
 
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How is this "trolling"? I gave an assesment of the differences in the two QB's that Lock and Allen are...then elaborated about what Lock is, what he does well and what he doesn't do well...I am not here to incite any hostilities or to piss in anyones cornflakes here. ...furthermore...as a Chiefs fan.....of what value is trolling the Seahawks? ...I happily admit to trolling and cajoling Broncos fans .....by the way, if you aren't already there, alot of the old Orangemane folks are now on Orangehuddle....you should check it out. ...anyhow..I didn't show up here to troll....I am interested in Lock as a Kansas Citian and MIZZOU fan and wanted to chime in.

Furthermore...if you were on the Mane during that draft year...I was all over that place BEFORE HE WAS DRAFTED....giving this exact same assesment.
Week 18, quarter 1, 5:24 on clock, 3rd and 8, Lock makes an apparent wild underthrow, maybe aimed at a receiver, who kept running, toward a KC defender. Is it possible that underthrow was Lock's first ever attempt at an anticipatory throw?
(i.e., that he 'antcipated' the receiver cutting toward the sideline just beyond the chain, while the receiver unexpectedly continued running?)
Off topic: congrats to KC yesterday for doing a job on Miami. KC needed all those picks more than Tyreek.
 
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IndyHawk

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Good post..
We are used to certain things like the waiting for WR to make a cut ect
Denver will see this again for sure.
Where I like or want from Lock is ability to see the field and throw the short
passes that the D gives..This whet we have needed for years and it's not a
complicated thing..Game managing Pete Ball
 

chris98251

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Well a QB and WR that know the offense know where or signal what route they are running, the QB gets the ball out before the cut so the WR doesn't have to wait or be hung out to dry. Wilson rarely did that, even deep balls where pretty were late and the receiver had to wait a lot of the time for the ball to come down making the catch much more contested.
 

toffee

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Well a QB and WR that know the offense know where or signal what route they are running, the QB gets the ball out before the cut so the WR doesn't have to wait or be hung out to dry. Wilson rarely did that, even deep balls where pretty were late and the receiver had to wait a lot of the time for the ball to come down making the catch much more contested.
Jerry Rice used to joke that he made QB look great, Rice was very precise in his route running, which gave QB confidence that he will be where he supposed to be.
 

Scout

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Anticipation can be improved upon by having proper timing and chemistry with WRs. Seattle organization has structure which Lock has lacked in a long time. Lock needs to improve his decision making and Seattle's offense will not ask him to make big time throws all the time. Lock isn't at the point of his career where he is trying to be Super man on every snap like Wilson or Winston.
 
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