Pete Carroll: Hall-of-Famer?

[Maulbert]

So, I was reading this article the other day, when this paragraph caught my attention:

When it comes to today’s NFL, Carroll-Belichick is like a lush oasis after slogging miles through the dry desert that is the rest of the NFL slate on any given Sunday (just try watching one game in the AFC South). Unlike previous decades of the NFL, when coaches like Shula, Landry, Noll, Parcells, Walsh, Gibbs and Grant often matched wits, Belichick and Carroll are unmatched among their peers.

Now, I realize that's not a direct comparison, but we all know Belichick, however we feel about him, is a Hall of Fame head coach to be. There's no denying it, and here is a national pundit that is effectively saying Carroll is the only head coach in the NFL that stands on a plateau with him.

That is one reason I made this thread, the other is the realization I had yesterday that Pete's next win will be his 100th in the regular season. His current regular season record as an NFL head coach is 99-69-1, a .589 winning percentage. He was 6-10 in one year with the Jets, 27-21 in three year with the Patriots, and 66-38-1 with us. His career playoff record is 9-6. So I'm just wondering:

In your opinion, what, if anything, does Pete still need on his resume to make the Hall of Fame?

 

[chris98251]

So, I was reading this article the other day, when this paragraph caught my attention:

When it comes to today’s NFL, Carroll-Belichick is like a lush oasis after slogging miles through the dry desert that is the rest of the NFL slate on any given Sunday (just try watching one game in the AFC South). Unlike previous decades of the NFL, when coaches like Shula, Landry, Noll, Parcells, Walsh, Gibbs and Grant often matched wits, Belichick and Carroll are unmatched among their peers.

Now, I realize that's not a direct comparison, but we all know Belichick, however we feel about him, is a Hall of Fame head coach to be. There's no denying it, and here is a national pundit that is effectively saying Carroll is the only head coach in the NFL that stands on a plateau with him.

That is one reason I made this thread, the other is the realization I had yesterday that Pete's next win will be his 100th in the regular season. His current regular season record as an NFL head coach is 99-69-1, a .589 winning percentage. He was 6-10 in one year with the Jets, 27-21 in three year with the Patriots, and 66-38-1 with us. His career playoff record is 9-6. So I'm just wondering:

In your opinion, what, if anything, does Pete still need on his resume to make the Hall of Fame?

At least one more Super Bowl win.

 

[irocdave]

Pete is such an enigma when it comes to NFL HC performance. I honestly think that if he wins another SB he will be voted in. He doesn't have the greatest win loss ratio or SB wins, but he changed the game when he changed the course of the NFL with his success with the Hawks first SB win. There is zero doubt that the defensive dominance displayed versus Denver in the SB had a major influence on John Elway and how the Broncos adjusted their team that won a SB.

Pete isn't there yet, but is close. It will be interesting to see how some of his disciples careers play out. Pete isn't a game changer in scheming, it's all about choosing the right guy and coaching with Pete. I honestly think the Hawks staff teaches football fundamentals more than any other team. They have to because they choose people by physical and mental ability over proven production.

 

[TestMo1337]

Carroll is not a HOF'er at the coaching position; he's level of dominance has been too short.

He's 39th in career coaching wins at 99.

New York Jest 1994 6-10
New England Patriots 1997-1999 27-21
Seattle Seahawks 2010-Present 66-38-38-1
Overall 99-69-1

Active Coaches with more coaching wins
Bill Belichik 230-115
Jeff Fisher 173-161-1
Andy Reid 168-112
John Fox 127-106
Marvin Lewis 115-99
Mike McCarthy 108-60

He need 20 more wins to tie Mike Holmgren for Seahawks most winningest coach.

 

[evergreen]

Carroll is not a HOF'er at the coaching position; he's level of dominance has been too short.

He's 39th in career coaching wins at 99.

New York Jest 1994 6-10
New England Patriots 1997-1999 27-21
Seattle Seahawks 2010-Present 66-38-38-1
Overall 99-69-1

Active Coaches with more coaching wins
Bill Belichik 230-115
Jeff Fisher 173-161-1
Andy Reid 168-112
John Fox 127-106
Marvin Lewis 115-99
Mike McCarthy 108-60

He need 20 more wins to tie Mike Holmgren for Seahawks most winningest coach.

Thing is he's so good that you wouldn't take anyone off that list but the Hoodie... That's why he makes it. 91 games and counting... how long those other guys go before losing by more than 10?

 

[Msfann]

The good thing is Pete isn't done yet so he can add to these stats and make sure theres no doubt by the time he's done.

 

[sc85sis]

I think it's too soon to say. If they disregard his time in NY and NE due to him having no control there, and he keeps winning the next several years, he's got a shot. This will be increased if he wins the big one again.

Looking at this list, it's interesting how much having either personnel control or at least a really good org and GM make a huge difference. Bill and Pete are clear evidence of that in their records prior to getting control over the players vs. after obtaining that control.

Bill Belichick: 373 games; .668; 6 SB wins
* 36-44 in Cleveland with no control of personnel
* 193-70 in NE with personnel control

Mike McCarthy: 184 games; .633; 1 SB win
* All games in Green Bay with excellent GM

Mike Tomlinson: 164 games; .622; 2 SB wins
* All games in Pittsburgh with great ownership, etc.

John Harbaugh: 145 games; .621; 1 SB win
* All games in Baltimore with great GM

Andy Reid: 294 games; .587; 0 SB wins
* 130-93 in Philly with personnel control for most of his time there
* 38-19 in KC with GM having control

Pete Carroll: 177 games; .585; 1 SB win
* 6-10 for the dysfunctional Jets and no control
* 27-21 in NE with no control but a better overall org
* 66-38 in Seattle (52-20 from 2012-present) with final say on personnel if he and John disagree

Here is another interesting tidbit: Bill's at .734 in NE. Starting with 2012 after the worst of the rebuild was over, Pete is at .722. Those are crazy good numbers!

 

[thebanjodude]

An informative post, thanks for the info. A couple minor corrections - it's Mike Tomlin and Belichick has won 4 super bowls, not 6.

 

[sc85sis]

An informative post, thanks for the info. A couple minor corrections - it's Mike Tomlin and Belichick has won 4 super bowls, not 6.

Yeah, I missed that Belichick's first two were as an assistant. I need to start getting more sleep.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Pete is an innovator... he makes the HoF with one more Lombardi in his hands.

 

[Missing_Clink]

If there was just a "football hall of fame" that considered all levels, he's a first balloter without question. But for the NFL, I'd say he needs one more title and about 3-4 more solid playoff teams to really lock it down. He got started being super successful in the NFL a little late

 

[Seahawks Guy]

It's called the hall of "fame", and honestly, I think Pete is famous enough to make it, because he is so well-known for his positivity, gum-chewing, etc. Every fan of the NFL knows Pete, and has an opinion about him.

 

[raisethe3]

Pete should be in if he wins 1 more Super Bowl.

 

[Hawknballs]

It's possible he could be in contension about the time his contract is up.

He will be around the 140 win mark if everything goes as it has, and we win some postseason games. If he can win another title in that span I think his name recognition and the fact that he turned a traditionally mediocre franchise into a champion and fielded a historically good defense gets him in. he will be right in the middle of total wins of a large group of HOF coaches.

 

[davidonmi]

I have a hard time seeing it. I wish there was a football hall of fame that combined college and pro cause he'd be a shoe in

 

[SeaToTheHawks]

I think it's too soon to say. If they disregard his time in NY and NE due to him having no control there, and he keeps winning the next several years, he's got a shot. This will be increased if he wins the big one again.

Looking at this list, it's interesting how much having either personnel control or at least a really good org and GM make a huge difference. Bill and Pete are clear evidence of that in their records prior to getting control over the players vs. after obtaining that control.

Bill Belichick: 373 games; .668; 6 SB wins
* 36-44 in Cleveland with no control of personnel
* 193-70 in NE with personnel control

Mike McCarthy: 184 games; .633; 1 SB win
* All games in Green Bay with excellent GM

Mike Tomlinson: 164 games; .622; 2 SB wins
* All games in Pittsburgh with great ownership, etc.

John Harbaugh: 145 games; .621; 1 SB win
* All games in Baltimore with great GM

Andy Reid: 294 games; .587; 0 SB wins
* 130-93 in Philly with personnel control for most of his time there
* 38-19 in KC with GM having control

Pete Carroll: 177 games; .585; 1 SB win
* 6-10 for the dysfunctional Jets and no control
* 27-21 in NE with no control but a better overall org
* 66-38 in Seattle (52-20 from 2012-present) with final say on personnel if he and John disagree

Here is another interesting tidbit: Bill's at .734 in NE. Starting with 2012 after the worst of the rebuild was over, Pete is at .722. Those are crazy good numbers!

This is all incredibly subjective.

What makes a great GM? Success on the field? So a coach could make or break that. Draft all the great players you want but without a good coach they won't shine. Vice versa. Draft crap players but a great coach makes them shine, is that a great GM now.

Same argument about a "great organization"

Very subjective.

I'm on the Carroll HOF train with another 30ish wins and playoff success.

Another SB win and he's a lock regardless.

 

[sc85sis]

The Hall of Fame is often incredibly subjective. Sometimes it's obvious who should get in and other times not as much.

 

[West TX Hawk]

He needs at least 1 more SB title but that would not guarantee it. I certainly think with another title he deserves to be in but there's still this odd perception of him nationally. There's unfortunately many people in the media and other circles that just don't care for him for whatever reason. And some, because of XLIX right or wrong, may never will.

For more comparisons, Tom Flores won 2 SBs and never got in. His detractors would argue Al Davis was the reason for those immensely talented teams' success. Flores had a career 97-87 record but 83-53 with the Raiders.

Conversely, Madden and Dungy made it in with 1 title each. Both had sustained success but both actually retired from coaching young. So the perception of "coaching greatness" even if brief, perhaps lasts longer if such coaches retire early as opposed to coaching longer with less success or with other teams. Dungy retired at 53 with a 139-69 record. Madden retired at 42 with an outstanding 103-32-7 record.

Weeb Ewbank and Hank Stram got in with 1 SB title each. Ewbank also won 2 NFL titles with the Colts. His overall record was 130-129-7. Stram was 131-97-10.

Do you consider Tom Coughlin a HOF coach? Many may while some may not. He won 2 SBs and had 170-150 record. If Pete wins another title he could be compared with Coughlin. If Coughlin gets in, Pete has a good chance in that situation.

Marv Levy got in with 0 titles. 143-112 record.

The good news is that Pete is far from done and could easily coach another 10 years or more. (Don't laugh- Levy coached til he was 72 and was the GM of the Bills for 2 years at age 81 and 82-'06 and '07 seasons).

 

[BlueTalon]

The Seahawks have had the best scoring defense for the past four years, and we could make it five (or more) in a row, something that's never been done in the salary cap era, and that was with three different defensive coordinators to this point. We have won at least one playoff game in every year but one under Carroll. If that level of success continues, I think Carroll could very well make the HOF even if he doesn't win another title.

Obviously though, I think another Super Bowl or three would make it more certain.

 

[truehawksfan]

You also have to factor in the post free agency period. You will be hard pressed to find a dynasty because the salary cap and free agency has made it impossible to keep your team intact for more then 2 years.

So, yes, Pete Carroll is a HoF coach with 1 more SB win.