Let's just say we take a WR at 20.

[CactusJack]

Count me in the "Day 2 WR" camp. Just NO to a WR at #20, unless it's a #1 receiver type, say, Quentin Johnston of TCU, who will probably be long gone by then. JSN will be a solid pro, but spending round 1 draft capital on a slot receiver keeps the Hawks from getting the best talent for beefing up the front 7 on D or adding a road grader interior O-Lineman. Interior O-Line weakness alone lost us a couple games last year. Underpowered front 7 cost us at least 5 losses last year.

It sucks that Dee Eskridge has produced almost nothing of value for the Hawks at WR3/slot receiver/jet sweep threat, and Carroll clearly values this role highly, but a lot of guys that excelled in the slot receiver role have been later-round picks and one of the greatest, Wes Welker, was undrafted. Maybe 2023 is the year Eskridge is healthy and the light bulb goes on? In any case, slot WR is such a crapshoot, character, toughness, intelligence, rapport with QB*, so many qualities that are hard to truly know (at the NFL level) pre-draft. I do agree that JSN is the closest to a "sure thing" for this role in the NFL. If the Hawks love JSN at #20, are certain he's the second coming of Steve Largent, I'll get over it.

* In an interview with Wes Welker, he was asked about being angry with a teammate to the point of screaming at each other. Of course Welker cited several disagreements with Tom Brady over how a route should be run. When asked who was right, Welker shrugged and said, "the QB is always right." That quality is why Welker was one of the great ones.

Quentin Johnston is one of the more overrated prospects in this class. An X receiver that isn't great at contested catches. A body catcher. He just isnt a fit. This team could really use another chain mover. Especially with Lockett now getting up in age.

JSN will be an elite guy in the slot. He's not a burner, but he doesn't need to be. He's a great route runner that will consistently be open. He's better than both Chris Olive & Garrett Wilson.

JSN would be an absolute slam dunk pick. The perfect compliment to DK & Tyler.

 

[nwHawk]

JSN was joystick level short area quickness. Very useful in the NFL. Don’t ignore that trait.

 

[olyfan63]

Quentin Johnston is one of the more overrated prospects in this class. An X receiver that isn't great at contested catches. A body catcher. He just isnt a fit. This team could really use another chain mover. Especially with Lockett now getting up in age.

JSN will be an elite guy in the slot. He's not a burner, but he doesn't need to be. He's a great route runner that will consistently be open. He's better than both Chris Olive & Garrett Wilson, who was the ROY.

JSN would be an absolute slam dunk pick. The perfect compliment to DK & Tyler.

Appreciate your perspective. All the draft boards are saying QJ is the greatest thing since sliced bread, the #1 WR in the draft by a wide margin. I don't really have a dog in the hunt; simply watching with interest and curiosity. Will look for your points if/when I watch video breakdowns of QJ. Some draftniks are making like he's the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones.

A top slot guy like a Wes Welker or a Julian Edelman can be a big asset to a team's passing game. I honestly don't know what kind of value to place on a "good" slot receiver when your QB isn't named Brady. JSN will for sure be at least a "good" slot WR in the NFL. Will he be "great"? Would he justify a #20 selection? Beats me. The draft is a crapshoot. IIRC, Edelman was a 7th round pick.

 

[Chevy]

Appreciate your perspective. All the draft boards are saying QJ is the greatest thing since sliced bread, the #1 WR in the draft by a wide margin. I don't really have a dog in the hunt; simply watching with interest and curiosity. Will look for your points if/when I watch video breakdowns of QJ. Some draftniks are making like he's the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones.

A top slot guy like a Wes Welker or a Julian Edelman can be a big asset to a team's passing game. I honestly don't know what kind of value to place on a "good" slot receiver when your QB isn't named Brady. JSN will for sure be at least a "good" slot WR in the NFL. Will he be "great"? Would he justify a #20 selection? Beats me. The draft is a crapshoot. IIRC, Edelman was a 7th round pick.

No one is saying QJ is the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones, except you. If he was that guy then he would be a top -5 pick. No one is projection him that high. He is not even DK Metcalf.

 

[CactusJack]

Appreciate your perspective. All the draft boards are saying QJ is the greatest thing since sliced bread, the #1 WR in the draft by a wide margin. I don't really have a dog in the hunt; simply watching with interest and curiosity. Will look for your points if/when I watch video breakdowns of QJ. Some draftniks are making like he's the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones.

A top slot guy like a Wes Welker or a Julian Edelman can be a big asset to a team's passing game. I honestly don't know what kind of value to place on a "good" slot receiver when your QB isn't named Brady. JSN will for sure be at least a "good" slot WR in the NFL. Will he be "great"? Would he justify a #20 selection? Beats me. The draft is a crapshoot. IIRC, Edelman was a 7th round pick.

Quentin Johnston does most of his damage after the catch. He's a big YAC guy. Good size. People fall in love with that type.

But my biggest issue is that he plays a little soft at times. Doesn't always show up on film when he should dominate.

Having DK also makes it less of a need. Similar role.

That's it. Otherwise he's a 1st round talent.

 

[olyfan63]

No one is saying QJ is the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones, except you.

"Thanks" for the snark. A quick search and the first 3 draft boards I saw list him as the top WR in the draft. I said NOTHING of the sort, seems you have a reading comprehension challenge and/or a Googling challenge. I said: "Some draftniks are making like he's the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones."

PFF, as an example, says this about QJ:

"Physically, there’s nothing close to Johnston in the draft class. There are other receivers with his size, other receivers with his catch radius, other receivers with his speed, other receivers with his after-the-catch ability — but none who come close to putting all four of those together. He’s one of the more impressive athletes to come out at the receiver position over the past decade, with reported measurables of a 4.4-second 40-yard dash, 42-inch vertical and 11-foot broad jump — all at 6-foot-4, 215 pounds."

CactusJack offered some specific points on why he thinks Quentin Johnston is overrated. You got any actual football-related points to offer about QJ, or are you only about ignorant drive-by attacks?

 

[olyfan63]

Quentin Johnston does most of his damage after the catch. He's a big YAC guy. Good size. People fall in love with that type.

But my biggest issue is that he plays a little soft at times. Doesn't always show up on film when he should dominate.

Having DK also makes it less of a need. Similar role.

That's it. Otherwise he's a 1st round talent.

Thank you. You're describing a player who, if he doesn't make an "attitude" leap in the NFL, step up his game, will underwhelm relative to likely draft position, for at least a couple years. Think of a Calvin Johnson, a Julio Jones, a Randy Moss, a Mike Evans, and those guys all have an attitude that they are going to go out there and dominate. (DK has the attitude, but lacks some of the skills of say, Julio) A lot of WRs seem to take 2+ years to develop and perform at the NFL level; Golden Tate as an example, but then there's Doug Baldwin who excelled as a rookie, as a less-common counterexample.

 

[James in PA]

JSN is still my favorite WR in this draft. But another guy I really like after watching so many Hendon Hooker highlights is Jalin Hyatt.

 

[FortWorthSeahawk]

Appreciate your perspective. All the draft boards are saying QJ is the greatest thing since sliced bread, the #1 WR in the draft by a wide margin. I don't really have a dog in the hunt; simply watching with interest and curiosity. Will look for your points if/when I watch video breakdowns of QJ. Some draftniks are making like he's the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones.

A top slot guy like a Wes Welker or a Julian Edelman can be a big asset to a team's passing game. I honestly don't know what kind of value to place on a "good" slot receiver when your QB isn't named Brady. JSN will for sure be at least a "good" slot WR in the NFL. Will he be "great"? Would he justify a #20 selection? Beats me. The draft is a crapshoot. IIRC, Edelman was a 7th round pick.

Latest NFL.com mock draft has him falling into the 2nd round, and I've listened to podcasts slotting him as the 3rd WR behind JSN and Addison. Just shows how subjective mock drafts are, but I don't think he's being considered the consensus #1 WR like he was earlier this year.

 

[olyfan63]

Latest NFL.com mock draft has him falling into the 2nd round, and I've listened to podcasts slotting him as the 3rd WR behind JSN and Addison. Just shows how subjective mock drafts are, but I don't think he's being considered the consensus #1 WR like he was earlier this year.

Wild how "draft stock" can fluctuate. From NFL.com, as you described:
"His elevation and catch radius create an expansive target area down the field, but his overall success rate on contested catches is way lower than it should be for a receiver of his size. Johnston needs a specific route tree, but will improve in that area at the next level. He will benefit from a more accurate deep-ball quarterback, but still feels more like a good WR2 than a high-volume WR1."

DK fell in the draft to the Seahawks, will be interesting to see how far QJ falls, if all NFL teams have this view of him.

 

[Chevy]

"Thanks" for the snark. A quick search and the first 3 draft boards I saw list him as the top WR in the draft. I said NOTHING of the sort, seems you have a reading comprehension challenge and/or a Googling challenge. I said: "Some draftniks are making like he's the 2nd coming of Randy Moss or Jamar Chase or Julio Jones."

PFF, as an example, says this about QJ:

"Physically, there’s nothing close to Johnston in the draft class. There are other receivers with his size, other receivers with his catch radius, other receivers with his speed, other receivers with his after-the-catch ability — but none who come close to putting all four of those together. He’s one of the more impressive athletes to come out at the receiver position over the past decade, with reported measurables of a 4.4-second 40-yard dash, 42-inch vertical and 11-foot broad jump — all at 6-foot-4, 215 pounds."

CactusJack offered some specific points on why he thinks Quentin Johnston is overrated. You got any actual football-related points to offer about QJ, or are you only about ignorant drive-by attacks?

I admit it was a snarky comment, my bad. But, two wrongs don't make a right...with your comment "or are you only about ignorant drive-by-attacks".

I've made tons of legit respectful arguments when I was given snarky/dismissive comments.

 

[olyfan63]

I admit it was a snarky comment, my bad. But, two wrongs don't make a right...with your comment "or are you only about ignorant drive-by-attacks".

I've made tons of legit respectful arguments when I was given snarky/dismissive comments.

Fair enough, thanks for acknowledging. I overdid it in my response and apologize for such. After my hasty reply, I noted some of your other posts with lots of good and useful football information particularly on WRs. So let's just start over.

I'm in no way an expert on these college WRs, just a guy trying to improve my knowledge base. I do know the current and former Seattle WRs reasonably well, and WR in the NFL can be such a crapshoot on who excels and who busts and who is in between. This QJ fellow from TCU seems to be a polarizing talent, and I will be watching with interest. JSN for sure will be a reliable pro, hard to say if he'll be "great", might depend a lot on the team and QB he winds up with. Then there are the couple-three speedy-quick guys, Downs and the others, where I just hope the scouts have done their homework if they select one, and get one whose skills translate to the NFL, and can stay relatively healthy. (e.g., a counterpoint to former Seahawks WR Paul Richardson, who just didn't seem to have an NFL-capable body)

 

[CactusJack]

Fair enough, thanks for acknowledging. I overdid it in my response and apologize for such. After my hasty reply, I noted some of your other posts with lots of good and useful football information particularly on WRs. So let's just start over.

I'm in no way an expert on these college WRs, just a guy trying to improve my knowledge base. I do know the current and former Seattle WRs reasonably well, and WR in the NFL can be such a crapshoot on who excels and who busts and who is in between. This QJ fellow from TCU seems to be a polarizing talent, and I will be watching with interest. JSN for sure will be a reliable pro, hard to say if he'll be "great", might depend a lot on the team and QB he winds up with. Then there are the couple-three speedy-quick guys, Downs and the others, where I just hope the scouts have done their homework if they select one, and get one whose skills translate to the NFL, and can stay relatively healthy. (e.g., a counterpoint to former Seahawks WR Paul Richardson, who just didn't seem to have an NFL-capable body)

JSN is a safe bet. His floor is a high end #2 WR. But there's also potential for him to be an elite slot in the league. He is an incredibly savvy route runner & just has a great feel for playing the position. You can bank on him being a very good pro.

Zay Flowers might have the most upside of anyone. He has some great traits. If he's able to refine some of his game, he'll be great. The one knock on him is the drops. But his run after the catch ability is special.

Downs has a fairly high floor himself as a slot guy.

Jordan Addison is another superb route runner. But is a little smaller, 170lbs. Which is concerning. That's why I have him further down on my list.

Jalin Hyatt will stretch the field with his speed. Adds a different element than the other guys. A vertical threat, but not necessarily someone who will move the chains.

Tank Dell is absolutely electric with the ball in his hands & the most elusive receiver in this class. He's also listed at 165lbs. So buyer beware.

 

[HawksNation]

My list is going to be much longer than most; I would take eight at #20. Receiver is one of the most important positions in the modern NFL if you look at how the top offenses are doing things and how positions are being paid relative to each other. We have the QB and OTs, and are proficient at finding developmental cornerbacks later on in the draft. The value for me is mainly receivers and pass rush. We can address ILB, IOL, DT and S on days 2 and 3.

1) JSN. We need a slot and he's one of the best slot receiver prospects to come along in years.
2) Dalton Kincaid. Move TE who could be a high volume receiver in the middle of the field. Not afraid of tough catches.
3/4) Josh Downs and Zay Flowers both remind me a lot of rookie Tyler Lockett with more drops. Downs seems a touch more athletic, Flowers a bit more willing as a blocker.
5) Quentin Johnston. His average play is underwhelming and he's going to get over drafted as the only high tier split end prospect. However, like Anthony Richardson, the best 3-5 plays that Johnston made last year are some of the best 3-5 plays in college football. Some team is going to ask why they can't help a guy who can make the toughest catches be more consistent on the easy ones.
6) Jordan Addison. The combine hurt his stock with some, but he won in college by understanding where the holes in the defense were and creating his own separation.
7) Jalin Hyatt. Flanker speedster who reminds me of Paul Richardson with better hands. His college production should be taken with a grain of salt playing in the Tennessee offense.
8) Michael Mayer. Maybe cheating on this one as he's more of an Inline TE, but Mayer's blocking abilities do cause some to overlook his receiving abilities. Great hands and comes down with contested catches.

I'll also throw out Tyler Scott, WR from Cincinnati as a prospect to target. Chip on the shoulder type who lined up on the outside in college due to his willingness to be physical. Measurables are very close to both Downs and Flowers. Former RB so his YAC and utility on jet sweeps is very high. He had a few too many drops but given the position switch his hands are solid. I really like him as a potential ADB type in the slot or Lockett type on the outside.

If you like all these guys, the best option is to trade down 5-10 spots and pick up an additional 2nd or 3rd and still get BPA

 

[HawksNation]

If you like all these guys, the best option is to trade down 5-10 spots and pick up an additional 2nd or 3rd and still get BPA

But I would be waiting for the 4th round to take a WR

 

[onanygivensunday]

But I would be waiting for the 4th round to take a WR

I would wholly support drafting Jonathon Mingo in the 3rd round if he makes it that far.

 

[HawksNation]

I would wholly support drafting Jonathon Mingo in the 3rd round if he makes it that far.

Bruce Ford Weaton had an Awesome combine

 

[hawkfan68]

Tyler Scott would be intriguing. Just his physical size is concerning. He's got Dee Eskridge size and Tyler Lockett potential. Is he worth the risk in 2nd or 3rd round is the question. Nathaniel Dell also falls into that category.

 

[olyfan63]

On film I saw TCU use Quentin Johnston on a jet sweep, and he did a really good job with it. Looked like a tallish running back. Just another data point. Meanwhile, Johnston's draft stock seems to have slid from potential top 10 to #20-25 lately.

 

[GemCity]

Need that JSN jersey now Rat….