Is Russell scrambling enough?

Sarlacc83

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,109
Reaction score
1
Location
Portland, OR
Something that's been rattling around in my head for the past few days (after taking a few weeks to figure out what was haunting me in the first place), is that Wilson hasn't seemed to take advantage of the running opportunities when the play breaks down.

Now, first, the caveat is that I don't want him to turn into RGIII and get himself torn apart, but it seems like over the first 3.5 games, when the play breaks down, he hangs around behind the line of scrimmage before ultimately taking a sack rather than running for cheap yards. (Maybe someone can confirm I'm crazy on this.) Collinsworth talked about in the 49ers game; he had 30/40 yards of open space. I know he wants to be a great pocket passer, and I want him for that as well, but it seems like an unnecessary restriction on his ability. Especially since it seems like when he's a threat to tuck it and scramble, the passing game starts to loosen up because the linebackers and safeties have one more thing to account for, rather than dropping deep.

Am I just crazy on this, or does the Texans game, where he picks up 77 yards seem to help this viewpoint? If you look at the huge scoring output/wins from late 2012, (starting at the Bears game) Wilson had 262 yards rushing. Over 50 a game. This year, before the 77 yard output, of which 50 came in the 4th quarter, he's averaging 18 a game. If you include the first half of the Texans game, it drops to 15.4.

Thoughts? My conclusion is that Wilson needs to keep it when the play (*cough* O-line *cough*) breaks down as it has been.
 

C-Dub

New member
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
0
Location
Spokane, WA
I think he needs to scramble a bit more early on. Just look how much it opens it up in the 4th quarters and OT.

Of course, it could just be a tactic to gain an advantage later on in the game. But that just doesn't make a ton of sense and seems like too big of a risk.
 

rjas77

Active member
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
444
Reaction score
130
Keep in mind in the 4th, Texan's D was out of gas, so that prolly contributed to his scrambling yardage.
 

HawkFan72

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
16,570
Reaction score
1
Location
Bay Area, CA
He's on pace for over 500 yards rushing, which would put him about where he was last year.

I do think that when he scrambles and runs for yards that it opens up the offense a lot. So I think he could do it a little more, but he's not doing it that much less than last year overall.
 

DavidSeven

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
5,742
Reaction score
0
I sort of like the fact that he saves it for MUST SCRAMBLE situations at the end of games. It's like he lulls the defense into thinking they can over-pursue and that he'll just take sacks or run out of bounds through the entire game. And then BOOM, he's juking people all over the field when it matters the most. I think it's actually kind of brilliant, and I feel the team already has an awareness of this. It explains Marshawn's "OK, you can take the game over now, Russ" comment.
 

mikeak

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
8,292
Reaction score
100
Location
Anchorage, AK
Last year's running numbers that you are using includes a lot of RO plays. It is not comparing scrambling numbers to scrambling if that makes sense.

In general I think he needs to keep developing the passing and avoid to much running. I did think that running a bit more than he did in the first half against the Texans would have been prudent to buy time and get some of the pressure off.

It looked like that was somewhat of the gameplan when we started with a deep throw immediately. I thought - ok they will do everything to get the pressure dialed down by the Texans. Then they ran succesfully and it all aligned and I just wished they would have done some more PA / RW runs out of that and I think the game would have looked somewhat different
 

hawk45

Active member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
10,009
Reaction score
16
Last year early, one of the things he worked on was keeping his eyes downfield when he broke the pocket instead of taking off. I think that's a positive change.

THIS year though, since we have no pass protection against good DLs, unfortunately I think he may just have to resort more to running if he's going to impact the game. He wasn't able to pass well against Carolina, SF, or Houston (they get a pass for Houston with 3/5ths of the line out). Thankfully the D lines are getting a little less scary. But when we go to San Fran, he may want to keep in mind that his OL hasn't proven that, even when healthy, it can protect against a good DL.
 

minormillikin

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
3,583
Reaction score
175
Location
East Oly
He's scrambling just infrequently enough that scrambling works when it needs to work.
 

sturg78

New member
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
1,350
Reaction score
0
He tried in the first half against the Texans, they just spied him and kept swallowing him up before he could get going. It seemed like it worked after Cushing went down because the spy had to revert back to normal nonspying d.
 

hawker84

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
5,909
Reaction score
637
Location
Tri Cities, WA
He tried early on in the Texans game and SF. He just didn't have a whole lot of escape routes. Both teams did a good job bottling him up for most of the game..
 

ZagHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
2,337
Reaction score
378
I think if RW had his way, he'd never have to scramble, and I'm sure we'd prefer it too. If it meant proper pass protection from the O-Line. I'm not going to lie, every time he scrambles, I get a mini heart attack.
 

Rose City Hawk

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
979
Reaction score
0
Location
Portland Oregon
I was thinking about this during the game myself and I think both JJ Watt and Cushing were strong deterrents for him tucking and running.

Another thing I have noticed is that teams are bringing their DE's outside and sort of containing him. Now this could be just my complete lack of knowledge on the x's and o's of football or there may be something there. It always seems as though the ends are just behind him and to the right and left forcing him to run diagonally into the tackles grasp where they can disengage the block and make a move on him and by that time the backers have caught up to whats going on.

I just want to say regardless of that, hats off to this team, we won against Texas in their house, at 10 AM, with 3 of our starting linemen out. It was a statement game for our team. Grittiest and ugliest win I can remember as a Seahawks fan.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
18,582
Reaction score
1,517
Tarvaris Jackson played in a similar fashion...oddly hesitant to run. I translate this as PC knows better than to expose his QB's to punishment from linebackers anymore than necessary, and wants his QB's playing from the pocket whenever possible.
 

formido

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Messages
547
Reaction score
0
Location
Ventura, CA
Sarlacc83":1z9mnmvz said:
Something that's been rattling around in my head for the past few days (after taking a few weeks to figure out what was haunting me in the first place), is that Wilson hasn't seemed to take advantage of the running opportunities when the play breaks down.

Now, first, the caveat is that I don't want him to turn into RGIII and get himself torn apart, but it seems like over the first 3.5 games, when the play breaks down, he hangs around behind the line of scrimmage before ultimately taking a sack rather than running for cheap yards. (Maybe someone can confirm I'm crazy on this.) Collinsworth talked about in the 49ers game; he had 30/40 yards of open space. I know he wants to be a great pocket passer, and I want him for that as well, but it seems like an unnecessary restriction on his ability. Especially since it seems like when he's a threat to tuck it and scramble, the passing game starts to loosen up because the linebackers and safeties have one more thing to account for, rather than dropping deep.

Am I just crazy on this, or does the Texans game, where he picks up 77 yards seem to help this viewpoint? If you look at the huge scoring output/wins from late 2012, (starting at the Bears game) Wilson had 262 yards rushing. Over 50 a game. This year, before the 77 yard output, of which 50 came in the 4th quarter, he's averaging 18 a game. If you include the first half of the Texans game, it drops to 15.4.

Thoughts? My conclusion is that Wilson needs to keep it when the play (*cough* O-line *cough*) breaks down as it has been.

You're right, this season Wilson tries to avoid running unless there's no other way to win the game. I think it's a mistake because he's got the build and the proven track record of avoiding big hits. Since Seattle doesn't feature check downs on its pass plays, Wilson scrambles should ideally serve the same purpose, without the risk of an INT or dropped pass.

At least, I think he should run for yards more until we get Harvin back. Having Harvin will make the offense a lot more "multiple".
 

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,974
Reaction score
0
If they are not committing a spy and Wilson isn't running, then the benefit of being a mobile QB is marginal at best. If the defenses are going to concede 10 easy yards to Wilson's legs, Wilson has to punish them for it. If only to force them to waste a defender in response for the rest of the game.
 

HawkWow

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
6,740
Reaction score
0
Location
The 5-0
I'm from the camp that not only hopes he runs a bit more, I am adamant about it. Every QB has his strengths and weakness'. RW's legs, whether people want to come to terms with this or not, is somewhere near the top of his strengths. IMO, he is just above avg as a QB if he is not a threat to pull the ball down and head up-field with it.

IMO, this fear of him getting hurt outside the pocket is unwarranted. Look at his build. The kid has the body (and legs) of an RB. Better, he has the brains of an NFL QB. That's a combination that will keep him as healthy running the ball as standing around in an all too frequently collapsing pocket. THAT, IMO, is where he is most destined for injury. He's not big enough, and few are, to have linemen piling on him from every angle as he tries to protect the ball. He will get hurt back there.

RW is a frikin' genius running the ball. He sees the marker, he sees the tackler and 9 x out of 10, he escapes unscathed while moving the chains and exhausting the opposition. I don't need to look at any film to believe the biggest hits he's taken has been in the pocket...not on the run.

Further, it would be near criminal to not let the kid run the ball. It's who he is. He is a playmaker and I wouldn't be saying any of this if I thought it would put our franchise QB at risk. Again, the kid is a natural born RB with a QB's brain. He runs, we win. Easy stuff so I don't know why we wish to make this more difficult than it is. If we unleash him earlier, I don't believe 2 plays would be separating us from 2-2 and 4-0. We would be better positioned to control entire games as well as our destiny.
 

BadgerVid

New member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
251
Reaction score
0
I was thinking about this earlier today and found myself wondering if they are "discouraging" him from even LOOKING like he is running until the 4th...and then only if needed.

It sort of makes sense...defense is tired, they are possibly relaxing a bit because he HASN'T done it and it is something to keep in reserve unless needed. While the whole team seems to shift gears in the 4th, Wilson becomes a whole different QB.

At the same time I realized that RW is probably the second best 4th Q QB I have seen in over 50 years of football...and could end up being the best before it's over, he certainly has the potential. The other guy played for a team we all love to hate in the 80's.
 

HawkWow

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
6,740
Reaction score
0
Location
The 5-0
Hey Badger.

I agree with your perception on holding RW back til the 4th. It does appear that way...or is it just because 50% of our games, we have been rather desperate going into the 4th? IF this is what they are doing, I hate it. If we're not going to at least pretend he's going to run early, then let's let him go anytime we trail. Too much is at stake for us to pull the ole' jockey holding back the horse for the home stretch routine, IMO. Especially with the reckless officiating we're seeing these days. Not to mention the possibility of a drive ending, 4th qtr turn over.

I said this already, but I just think we are making things more difficult on ourselves. RW is a young buck. I'm confident his conditioning is extraordinary. You have him run the read option once (or so) every 4 or 5 downs....and then you don't. Keep the opposition on their heels and that will allow more space for both our backs and receivers. RW is VERY scary, but scariest when used correctly. I'm not HC material, but I don't think we're doing that enough.
 

Jazzhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
10,266
Reaction score
123
I don't think he should scramble more. I think he should RUN more.
 

CallMeADawg

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
3,148
Reaction score
3,093
Answer = No.

Source = 4-0.

Just sit back and enjoy. Sometimes these forums get a serious case of analysis paralysis. SMH.
 
Top