Is Pete Carrol laying the foundation to be a HOF head coach?

[Bigbadhawk]

I would say 5 more years at the top (division titles, 3 conference titles) with 1-2 Superbowl wins probably has him in the conversation if not in.

Using that standard, Mike Holmgren would qualify, but he's not even in the discussion.

Whenever I hear chatter on sports radio or even tv about the HOF and Holmgren it is how he is borderline atm. They go on to say if he would have won Super Bowl with the Hawks that it would have put in over the hump. Taking 2 different teams to the Super Bowl is nice but taking 2 differant teams and winning the Super Bowl with each would have been the icing on the cake for him

That is also why I believe it would take 2 more Super Bowl visits and at least one being a win for Pete but even then that may only make him borderline himself.

Agreed. And I should make a correction. Holmgren is "in the discussion", as you correctly noted that the subject does come up from time to time. But he has never been nominated.

Actually he has been nominated. The list I posted earlier in this thread that he was on is the list of all modern era head coaches that are considered nominees for the HoF. I am not sure if he was eligible for the 2014 HoF vote based on when he retired from coaching/having to be retired for 5 years/when the current HoF process starts for the year. I do know only Dungy, Coryell, and Johnson made it to the final 15 vote as head coaches for the 2014 class.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Is Tom Coughlin a HOF coach?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

As a coach, he definitely deserves to be in the conversation. He has well-established strengths as a talent developer (defense, particularly secondary), the ability to effectively scheme individual talent into the playbook, and a history of turning regime leftovers and UDFAs into starters and even Pro Bowlers. His drafting profile at DB is now mimicked by other teams. In a very real sense, Pete is an innovator. He's left his mark on professional football.

I don't think any of that can be ignored. And I think it's almost unfair that it might be overlooked if Carroll doesn't stay in his position for another decade. But it well might. Plenty of other coaches, including Mike Holmgren, could have the same things said about them without it getting them closer to a HOF berth, although they haven't quite innovated the way Carroll has.

Oh well. As Coach Boone said, "You're hall of fame in my book".

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Is Tom Coughlin a HOF coach?

As of this moment I would say no. His overall numbers are a little lower then Holmgrens but he does have the 2 Super Bowl wins. I think he is just like Homgren in the sense he is borderline based on his current stats.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

In other words, Holmgren has 1 SB title, 3 conference titles, 8 divisional titles, and a 161-111 regular season record in 19 years as a HC, not to mention the rings he got with the Niners as OC and QB coach, yet he's still not even in the conversation.

Using the above resume Holmgren has achieved as a yardstick, I don't see how 1-2 SB wins and 3 conference titles would put a candidate far enough beyond the HOF discussion stage that Holmgren isn't even in. Plus don't forget that Pete's tenure with the Jets and Pats is part of his resume, too.

IMO Pete's going to have to win 3 Lombardis to get in, and let's all agree that he achieves that standard!

That's my point Pete will have topped those numbers concerning winning Superbowls, division and conference titles with a better winning pct both regular season and the playoffs. In a far shorter period of time.

OK, I see where we didn't understand each other. You originally said "1-2 SB titles" where you meant to say "1-2 more SB titles."

But a far shorter time? Holmgren was a HC for 19 years, 5 more years would give Pete 14 years (4 years with Pats/Jets, 5 currently with Hawks + your 5 more). That's a shorter amount of time, but I wouldn't call it "far shorter", unless you plan to expunge Pete's HC record with the Jets/Pats. Plus don't forget that Holmgren had far better results as an assistant than Pete did, and his coaching tree, with guys like Gruden and Reid, were more successful than Pete's understudies have been to date.

You can't just cherry pick the best years off a resume and ignore the rest, you have to look at their entire career as a coach.

This is why it's going to take 1-3 more Superbowl wins (likely around 2) because in some areas Holmgren is better in others Pete is better but in the end if he does get 3-4 Superbowl wins in 14 years there will be no comparision between the 2 concerning the HoF because of the playoff success of one compared to the other.

 

[RiverDog]

Is Tom Coughlin a HOF coach?

No, not in my opinion. He does have two Lombardis to his credit, but his career has otherwise been pretty checkered. As a matter of fact, it is because of Coughlin that IMO they will raise that unwritten standard from 2 to 3 Lombardi's.

 

[RiverDog]

[This is why it's going to take 1-3 more Superbowl wins (likely around 2) because in some areas Holmgren is better in others Pete is better but in the end if he does get 3-4 Superbowl wins in 14 years there will be no comparision between the 2 concerning the HoF because of the playoff success of one compared to the other.

Now you're up from 1-2 more to 1-3 more.

But I agree with your most recent, updated statement. 1 more won't be enough. If Pete wins another 2, he'll be in serious consideration. 3 more would make it a slam dunk. Hell, Belichick doesn't have 4, and he's considered the gold standard for contemporary HC's.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

[This is why it's going to take 1-3 more Superbowl wins (likely around 2) because in some areas Holmgren is better in others Pete is better but in the end if he does get 3-4 Superbowl wins in 14 years there will be no comparision between the 2 concerning the HoF because of the playoff success of one compared to the other.

Now you're up from 1-2 more to 1-3 more.

But I agree with your most recent, updated statement. 1 more won't be enough. If Pete wins another 2, he'll be in serious consideration. 3 more would make it a slam dunk. Hell, Belichick doesn't have 4, and he's considered the gold standard for contemporary HC's.

You really should learn to read, this is what I said upthread or at least meant to say is that 2 Superbowl wins would be borderline (in the conversation) but 3 or more Superbowl wins should get him in. Coughlin and Tomlin are at 2 iirc so are borderline like Holmgren unless something changes by the time they're done.

t's so subjective really like any HOF. I'm just saying if he were to have 8 division titles, 4 conference titles, 3-4 Superbowl wins and a Seahawk coaching record of 105-55 over a 10 year span he would have a fair shot at it. Much fairer then most.

Also Bill is at a whole other level. 14 years and New England never had a losing record. 10-11 division titles, a playoff record nobody is near, 5 Superbowls and 3 wins. Yeah no real comparision there.

 

[Bigbadhawk]

[This is why it's going to take 1-3 more Superbowl wins (likely around 2) because in some areas Holmgren is better in others Pete is better but in the end if he does get 3-4 Superbowl wins in 14 years there will be no comparision between the 2 concerning the HoF because of the playoff success of one compared to the other.

Now you're up from 1-2 more to 1-3 more.

But I agree with your most recent, updated statement. 1 more won't be enough. If Pete wins another 2, he'll be in serious consideration. 3 more would make it a slam dunk. Hell, Belichick doesn't have 4, and he's considered the gold standard for contemporary HC's.

He just has a overall record of 207-107 with a 19-9 playoff record. With only the Patriots he is 171-63 and 18-8 in the playoffs. Toss in being 3-2 in the Superbowl, 11 division titles including 5 in a row from 2003 thru 2007 and yeah, there is no comparison with Bill. I didn't realize Bill has only missed the playoffs 3 times as the HC for the Pats since 2000, of which 2 of those 3 he missed out via tiebreakers with other teams (02 and 08).

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

IMO, Jimmy Johnson should be in the HoF. It's not his fault that Jerry Jones is a total douche........

Completely agree.

 

[RiverDog]

You really should learn to read, this is what I said upthread or at least meant to say is that 2 Superbowl wins would be borderline (in the conversation) but 3 or more Superbowl wins should get him in. Coughlin and Tomlin are at 2 iirc so are borderline like Holmgren unless something changes by the time they're done.

t's so subjective really like any HOF. I'm just saying if he were to have 8 division titles, 4 conference titles, 3-4 Superbowl wins and a Seahawk coaching record of 105-55 over a 10 year span he would have a fair shot at it. Much fairer then most.

Also Bill is at a whole other level. 14 years and New England never had a losing record. 10-11 division titles, a playoff record nobody is near, 5 Superbowls and 3 wins. Yeah no real comparision there.

Not my reading that's in question, Mizzu. Here's what I was reacting to:

I would say 5 more years at the top (division titles, 3 conference titles) with 1-2 Superbowl wins probably has him in the conversation if not in.


But that's all beside the point, which is that we agree that it's going to take at least 3 total Lombardi's for Pete to make it to the HOF, although if he won 3 in a row then retired after the 3rd, that, too, would make it a slam dunk.