How Will We Fix The OL?

[Wsumatt1982]

Patriots center David Andrews 32 released.

I thought about him after I saw that. I know the name because he and Brady had great years together. I don't know what kind of shoulder injury he had last year or the severity of it. I don't even know if he is a fit. I assume he's not but it never hurts to look. He was once the top C.

 

[Seahawker]

 

[HawkRiderFan]

As grim as things look maybe seeing others misfortune / moves can provide some comfort

https://x.com/Nate_Tice/status/1900272196288930226

 

[Seahawker]

 

[Mistashoesta]

A possible reunion in Seattle?

 

[DTiempo81]

I am pretty sure he was terrible in pass pro, which is why Minny upgraded at the position. That said, he is familiar with Kubiak's system, and has some rapport with Darnold. If they can get him cheap, might as well kick the tires.

 

[Wsumatt1982]

Garrett Bradbury | Minnesota Vikings C | NFL and PFF stats

NFL and PFF player stats for Minnesota Vikings C Garrett Bradbury on Pro Football Focus.

www.pff.com

really bad pass blocker, pretty good run blocker. his pass blocking was so bad he was ranked 33rd out of 64 centers. Take PFF with a grain of salt, but it's worth noting.

 

[DTiempo81]

Corbin Smith has really lost a step.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

What I can't figure out is the narrative during the Geno / Darnold debiate that Darnold was really downgrading in the o-line in front of him. Yet I keep seeing stuff that the Viking IOL was not that good and they are upgrading it. So was that narrative an exaggeration or our line was that bad?

 

[DTiempo81]

What I can't figure out is the narrative during the Geno / Darnold debiate that Darnold was really downgrading in the o-line in front of him. Yet I keep seeing stuff that the Viking IOL was not that good and they are upgrading it. So was that narrative an exaggeration or our line was that bad?

Our line was that bad.

 

[Scout]

What I can't figure out is the narrative during the Geno / Darnold debiate that Darnold was really downgrading in the o-line in front of him. Yet I keep seeing stuff that the Viking IOL was not that good and they are upgrading it. So was that narrative an exaggeration or our line was that bad?

As a group the Vikings OL outperformed Seahawks OL.

 

[Natethegreat]

The Viking IOL was in fact pretty bad. That's why they have gone out and spent so much in free agency.
Also because they have very little in draft picks as well.
The narrative that Sam Darnold had a great line in front of him is false.
He had a couple good tackles one of which got injured.
I have heard one Viking writer say that one of the things he liked about Darnold was his ability to maneuver and buy time in the pocket.

 

[Chapow]

What I can't figure out is the narrative during the Geno / Darnold debiate that Darnold was really downgrading in the o-line in front of him. Yet I keep seeing stuff that the Viking IOL was not that good and they are upgrading it. So was that narrative an exaggeration or our line was that bad?

OL rankings from various sources.

Pff: Vikings 13th, Seahawks 29th
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-offensive-line-rankings-detroit-lions-penei-sewell-frank-ragnow

Pro Football Network: Vikings 9th, Seahawks 30th
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/

NFL Lines: Vikings 15th, Seahawks 31st
https://nfllines.com/nfl-2024-final-comparative-offensive-line-rankings/

Also of note,
Vikings Pass Block Win Rate was 2nd best in the league
Seahawks Pass Block Win Rate was 21st in the league

Vikings Run Block Win Rate was 15th in the league
Seahawks Run Block Win Rate was 28th in the league

Vikings Overall Block Win Rate was 3rd in the league
Seahawks Overall Block Win Rate was 25th in the league

And one last thing (from the Pro Football Network link),
"The Vikings’ numbers against the blitz looked a little worrisome (54.3% pressure rate; last), with Sam Darnold holding the ball for nearly three seconds (2.93; second-highest in the NFL).

Minnesota’s OL was better relative to the league when not facing the blitz, ranking just outside the top 20 in pressure rate (34.1%). This is further contextualized by a second-overall ranking in PBWR, which shows this line was better than the raw pressure and sack rate numbers showed — they were just being asked to do it for longer than most teams."

 

[Chapow]

The Viking IOL was in fact pretty bad. That's why they have gone out and spent so much in free agency.
Also because they have very little in draft picks as well.
The narrative that Sam Darnold had a great line in front of him is false.
He had a couple good tackles one of which got injured.
I have heard one Viking writer say that one of the things he liked about Darnold was his ability to maneuver and buy time in the pocket.

The narrative that the Vikings OL was anywhere close to as bad as ours is also false.

 

[DTiempo81]

And one last thing (from the Pro Football Network link),
"The Vikings’ numbers against the blitz looked a little worrisome (54.3% pressure rate; last), with Sam Darnold holding the ball for nearly three seconds (2.93; second-highest in the NFL).

Minnesota’s OL was better relative to the league when not facing the blitz, ranking just outside the top 20 in pressure rate (34.1%). This is further contextualized by a second-overall ranking in PBWR, which shows this line was better than the raw pressure and sack rate numbers showed — they were just being asked to do it for longer than most teams."

How much of this is due to KOC's playbook featuring long developing plays?

 

[Chapow]

How much of this is due to KOC's playbook featuring long developing plays?

I'm not really sure how to answer that because,

Can you define long developing plays?
Are long developing plays a feature of KOC's playbook?
Does KOC's playbook feature a significantly higher percentage of long developing plays compared to the rest of the league?

There's probably a fair amount of questions that need to be answered before we can come to any reasonable conclusions as to why Darnold held onto the ball so long on average (compared to the rest of the league).

 

[DTiempo81]

I'm not really sure how to answer that because,

Can you define long developing plays?

Plays that rely on 7 step drops, long developing misdirection, or deep crosses, etc.

Are long developing plays a feature of KOC's playbook?

Yes, it's something he is known for.

Does KOC's playbook feature a significantly higher percentage of long developing plays compared to the rest of the league?

I don't know about his playbook as a whole, it's not something we are privy to, but in terms of plays called? Without looking at the data, I would say he is definitely in the upper quarter of the league.

 

[JayhawkMike]

We will not fix the O-Line. We all have blind spots and this is one of JS's.
"Hey man that's worn out. Go buy a new one"
"Nah, a tenth layer of duct tape and some bungee cords I stopped and picked up on the side of the road will be good enough. Maybe I'll hit the FREE section on craigslist. But nothing else"

 

[Chapow]

Plays that rely on 7 step drops, long developing misdirection, or deep crosses, etc.

Yes, it's something he is known for.

I don't know about his playbook as a whole, it's not something we are privy to, but in terms of plays called? Without looking at the data, I would say he is definitely in the upper quarter of the league.

If those things are true, than long developing plays may play a part in why Darnold held the ball so long on average. However, his OL also gave him the 2nd most pocket time in the league on average, so that may play a part as well. (Pocket Time being defined as average time the QB had in the pocket between the snap and throwing the ball or pressure collapses the pocket).

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Well we will find out on draft day. Last couple of years when we had higher picks the past (above 20) despite fears, we didn't trade back and then pick guys late first or early second with red flags or guys who lower draft grades as per the consensus.

Witherspoon, JSN, and Murphy were solid picks that made sense. Hopefully it's a sign he's learned and we will see some IOL picks in the first 100