Geno Is a Bridge, Nothing More

[pittpnthrs]

It's fair that Matt had a great OL and running game, he absolutely did, but 2005 is definitely one of the best QB seasons in Seahawks history regardless and he was absolutely a top 5 (possibly top 3) QB that year.

Unfortunately, while he did have a couple of other top 10 seasons (2002, 2003, 2007) he never replicated anything on the level of 2005 and it's a damn shame that offense (possibly the best Seahawks offense ever) didn't get the Super Bowl they deserved.

Good post. I have nothing to say about it except it's no coincidence Matt had his best season in 2005. That was the year Alexander had damn near 2000 yards rushing and 27 TD's. Defenses weren't concentrating on Hass and the passing game. They were set up to try and stop the run, thus making it easy for Matt.

Hass was a good QB and I don't want to take anything away from him, but he wouldn't be my choice to win a game if the offense depended on him to have the ball in his hands to make something happen.

 

[pittpnthrs]

When was Wilson light years better than Geno?

All those years Smith sat on the bench behind him. There was a reason for that you know.

 

[Ozzy]

All those years Smith sat on the bench behind him. There was a reason for that you know.

The idea that Geno is as good as peak Russ is wild. Russ was a top 2-3 guy for a couple of years and consistently top 5-7 for an extended period of time. We get it, his exit was legendary for being bad. Doesn’t take away from the fact when he had his head on straight he was special. No need for revisionist history because we hate the guy now.

 

[12forlife]

First off, I want to apologize. I prematurely posted this without finishing my thought and wanted to go back and edit the comment, but got distracted by a work call and never did. I didn't mean to leave it at that as a drive-by insult and am indeed a dick for doing so.

My point would've been that both of the other guys have more prowess on tape and in terms of what they're capable of executing offensively, and that pushing that aside in favor of a functional guy with obvious limitations is Cowherdy.

I don't subscribe to it. Especially with Dak - playoff pants-shitting aside, Minshew would never put up Dak's 2023 in any circumstance. He just doesn't have the arm-power for it. Same with Geno's 2022. He can get a team through a stretch, but he doesn't have the arm to build an offense around.

Honestly if I'm GM of the 3 of them if they are my starting QB. I'm kicking over every rock looking for a better option.

 

[12forlife]

Gardner Minshew has performed so far below Geno and Dak the past two years that this argument that he 'doesn't have the playmakers' reads as completely unrelated to anything he did.

Over the past two years, Gardner has a 41.6% success rate, 84.4 passer rating, 57.2 QBR, and 5.9 ANY/A. 'Well, he doesn't have playmakers' isn't a catchall. He's not even particularly close to Geno on any of these numbers, forget about Dak.

On top of that, this 'he had no weapons' thing seems to be based on what, I'm not sure. 2022 he was on the NFC Champion Eagles. This past year on the Colts, both of his top 2 RBs were better than both of our RBs in both success rate and yards per attempt. Per NGS, Kylen Granson was a top half receiver for separation, Michael Pittman and Josh Downs both rate higher than any Seahawks receiver in catch rate and only DK Metcalf rated higher than those 2 guys in Avg. YAC Above Expectation.

I am in no way saying Minshew's team had a better overall receiving corps than we do but there isn't anything to indicate they are bad enough to be the scape goat you think they are.

All 3 are in the same tier. Results don't lie. Piss on all analytics. All I'm saying is simply Minshew has takin his team as far as the glorified options. If your serious about winning a SB none of the 3 should be your starting QB.

 

[keasley45]

What if the rookie was Penix?

Even if the rookie was Penix, yes. I know this has been discussed enough already, and if youbl like the guy and think he can play, based off of everything but the championship game, your mind is probably made up. But it's been talked about enough here and amongst folks who get paid to know, that his performance in the Bowl, against a coach who deployed an 'NFL' look defense, that it neutered his game. He didn't look at all like the player he did throughout the season.
Was that just an aberration or was it the look of yet another 'all star' college qb who when he has to play by pro rules, folds?
Remains to be seen. But the fact hat he struggled is real. And if yiu watch the tape of the game, I'm sure it's obvious to see exactly what gave him trouble.
So the question becomes whether those things are correctable in an offseason before his rookie debut, to the degree he would be able to play the spot better than a guy who's been there for 2 years, knows Peetz' verbiage, has a raport with his teammates, knows how, when and where his receivers like the ball and what their tendencies are, etc, etc, etc. I'd say whether Penix becomes the next Mahomes or not, he's not going to be able to do any of the above better than Geno this year. Mahomes wasn't even Mahomes until after he watched for a year.

 

[seahawks08]

Geno is fine with where the team is. I really want to know if play calling and philosophies were a challenge. With a new group of coaches in place, this year will tell us how far can Geno go while rest of the schemes and rosters take shape. If the ceiling would mean a bridge that’s fine. The coaches need some space to evaluate and build the roster up. Goal should be to really be competitive in all sides of the game and then aim for winning the division and so on. I feel Geno has some tread left in being a good QB. Pick 16 will not give you someone talented but a game manager anyway you look at it. If you need a QBOF type, you will need a number 1 or may be 2 pick. We can sell the farm in year 3 if that opportunity presents itself. To me Geno has better accuracy than most QBs today. Let’s see how the trenches get built out.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I mean there's a lot of factors at play lol.

Literally nobody on this planet who has an inkling of familiarity with the teams is taking the chargers surrounding talent over the seahawks.

Solid top 2 receivers, unfortunately 16 games between the two of them.

Their top two rushers combined for 1033 yards 7 tds..... In a big time down year, walker ALONE had 905/8.

Playing the statistics game has no impact on geno/Herbert discussion.... Watch the guys play lol

This is really missing the forest for the trees. Again, I didn't say I'd take Geno over Herbert. I was criticizing the methodology (whatever that was) for his list. I would take our skill players over the Chargers skill players, for sure (not that our skill players outside of DK lit the world on fire this year).

My overall point is this: Fade created this thread so he could make the completely unremarkable observation that Geno is old. In order to 'prove' the saliency of his observation, he created a 'ranking' of NFL QBs and presented it as definitive that seems to be based on nothing more than 'Players I Like' and 'Players I Don't Like'.

Geno is certainly a 'bridge QB' because he's about to be 34. If that's your standard, fine, but then you can't put Matt Stafford, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, and Russell Wilson above Geno because they are all older and, shocking to hear, have been worse overall performers over the past 2 years.

All those years Smith sat on the bench behind him. There was a reason for that you know.

Why, exactly, did you quote a single piece of what I said out-of-context?

My 'when' question was clearly rhetorical. My point wasn't that Russ was never better than Geno. Russ was clearly better than Geno up until 2021. My point was that nobody seems to be talking about Russ's peak in this thread, so what point is there in trying to defend Russ against criticism no one is making?

 

[Titus Pullo]

This is really missing the forest for the trees. Again, I didn't say I'd take Geno over Herbert. I was criticizing the methodology (whatever that was) for his list. I would take our skill players over the Chargers skill players, for sure (not that our skill players outside of DK lit the world on fire this year).

My overall point is this: Fade created this thread so he could make the completely unremarkable observation that Geno is old. In order to 'prove' the saliency of his observation, he created a 'ranking' of NFL QBs and presented it as definitive that seems to be based on nothing more than 'Players I Like' and 'Players I Don't Like'.

Geno is certainly a 'bridge QB' because he's about to be 34. If that's your standard, fine, but then you can't put Matt Stafford, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, and Russell Wilson above Geno because they are all older and, shocking to hear, have been worse overall performers over the past 2 years.



Why, exactly, did you quote a single piece of what I said out-of-context?

My 'when' question was clearly rhetorical. My point wasn't that Russ was never better than Geno. Russ was clearly better than Geno up until 2021. My point was that nobody seems to be talking about Russ's peak in this thread, so what point is there in trying to defend Russ against criticism no one is making?

Russell peaked in 2020 at 32......Geno peaked in 2022 at 31.

That's the point.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Russell peaked in 2020 at 32......Geno peaked in 2022 at 31.

That's the point.

O... kay?

Who (please tell me) thinks Geno is the long-term answer at QB? How is 'figuring out' that Geno is about to be 34 some 'revelation'?

It blows my mind the obsession with 'long-term' vs. 'short-term' thinking and clearing cap space to set us up for the future. The future in the NFL is 1-2 seasons, MAYBE 3. If your 'strategy' to become a dynasty involves a plan that focuses on anything past 3 seasons, you aren't going to be good for the first 3 seasons and odds are you won't be after, either. (The number of teams caught in the perpetual cycle of trying to reinvent themselves for some imagined future season that never comes is not '0'.)

Running with Geno for a season or two does not now, nor has it ever, precluded us from planning for 2025 or 2026.

People who say they care about the long-term success of this team on one hand but then worry about the 'impact FA' we could sign with Geno's cap hit or wish we would draft our QBOTF and then throw them immediately to the wolves on the other confuses me.

Long-term success is not something you can guarantee in the NFL. You have to be willing to change and adapt every single year... and you also have to have a little bit of luck.

The best way to win a lot of Super Bowls is to field a team who you think, with a little bit of luck both in the schedule and on the injury side and little bit of ingenuity on the sidelines, could go all the way. You try to field that team every single season (or as many seasons as you possibly can) and then go play.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Over troubled water?

 

[onanygivensunday]

Geno... A Bridge Too Far

 

[bigskydoc]

Even if the rookie was Penix, yes. I know this has been discussed enough already, and if youbl like the guy and think he can play, based off of everything but the championship game, your mind is probably made up. But it's been talked about enough here and amongst folks who get paid to know, that his performance in the Bowl, against a coach who deployed an 'NFL' look defense, that it neutered his game. He didn't look at all like the player he did throughout the season.
Was that just an aberration or was it the look of yet another 'all star' college qb who when he has to play by pro rules, folds?
Remains to be seen. But the fact hat he struggled is real. And if yiu watch the tape of the game, I'm sure it's obvious to see exactly what gave him trouble.
So the question becomes whether those things are correctable in an offseason before his rookie debut, to the degree he would be able to play the spot better than a guy who's been there for 2 years, knows Peetz' verbiage, has a raport with his teammates, knows how, when and where his receivers like the ball and what their tendencies are, etc, etc, etc. I'd say whether Penix becomes the next Mahomes or not, he's not going to be able to do any of the above better than Geno this year. Mahomes wasn't even Mahomes until after he watched for a year.

I was genuinely interested in your take on it. My opinion of Penix fell drastically after the championship. Whatever the reason (crumpled under pressure, failed to overcome a NFL style defense, injury) the fact remains that he looked absolutely anemic, and in over his head, in that game.

Considering the way he performed against other adversity during the year gives me pause at throwing him out with the bathwater.

I would think that he could step right into the offense, in a way that few others could. It would be an interesting competition between him and Geno.

I would love to pick him up in the third round, to give him a shot, but I don't think I would reach any higher. I suspect he will still be there in the third.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

I think many people here know Geno isn’t going to be the QB for more than a year or so. What else is new?

It is true that Geno is bridge. We’re all just waiting to see “bridge to what?” I want Nix at #16.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nope. D line or O line at 16. Just my opinion that's all. Would MUCH rather see them trade down and grab a QB late 1st round. Still gets them that 5th year.
JJ, BO AND 3, Penix. None of them are worth taking at 16, imo.

 

[beaumaris]

Was Hasselbeck an elite QB?

Not to me.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Nope. D line or O line at 16. Just my opinion that's all. Would MUCH rather see them trade down and grab a QB late 1st round. Still gets them that 5th year.
JJ, BO AND 3, Penix. None of them are worth taking at 16, imo.

So you’re just gambling on who’s still on the board late first round. If John’s guy is gone, what then? Wait another year? It very hard to project these QBs. The guy taken at #16 may have a better pro career than the guy taken #4. If you need a QB, just take your best shot. If it doesn’t work, try again next year. There’s really no alternative except trade for a vet.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I don't think any of these guy are worth the #16 pick. I would MUCH rather they trade down, OR get a beast on the D line like Murphy. We all have our preferences.
It's all a crap shoot anyway.

 

[CactusJack]

There are some things on film with Penix that are definitely worrisome.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Hasselbeck's 2007 season was his strongest because he didn't have a run game, a top-tier offensive line, or a defense protecting him that year. It was just him.