Geno Is a Bridge, Nothing More

bigcc

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I think a lot of people confuse wanting to move on from russ, with saying that he wasn't a good qb....

Over his past few years, at least from my perspective, he had reached a point where, for the cap space he was taking, there just wasn't any more room for improvement.

I never meant it as saying that he wasn't a good qb, just that the possible return we'd get in capital, and then the massive cap savings, it made sense to move on, probably a couple years earlier than we did imo.

He's still the best qb in franchise history, and will be for a long time.
 

CactusJack

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Russ was very good at certain aspects. His deep ball is still one of his best attributes. But I never would put him in the elite category. I think that's reserved for only a few guys (Brady, Mahomes, etc.). Russ never took his game to that level IMO. He was a borderline top 5 guy at certain points (2018-2020). But there we're always things in his game that could be improved. One of the things that held him back ultimately was his processing/vision. It's why he takes so many unnecessary sacks.
 

bigcc

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Russ was very good at certain aspects. His deep ball is still one of his best attributes. But I never would put him in the elite category. I think that's reserved for only a few guys (Brady, Mahomes, etc.). Russ never took his game to that level IMO. He was a borderline top 5 guy at certain points (2018-2020). But there we're always things in his game that could be improved. One of the things that held him back ultimately was his processing/vision. It's why he takes so many unnecessary sacks.
I think his height played a significant role in that, as much as shorter fans might say otherwise lol
 

fire_marshall_bill

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103 used to be a borderline outstanding rating, right? Is the league so watered down and pass centric that it's considered average now?
 

Maelstrom787

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103 used to be a borderline outstanding rating, right? Is the league so watered down and pass centric that it's considered average now?
103.0 would've been 4th in the league last year for a quarterback taking a top-35 amount of snaps.

Geno Smith's down year had him at 92.1. This is 17th highest among qualifying passers.... between Josh Allen and Joe Burrow.

Players like Tua, Jake Browning, and Russell Wilson were higher.

Passer rating is hard. It favors guys operating in easy offenses so, so much over the higher degree of difficulty type of quarterbacking that a lot of teams need. Deep passers are inherently penalized. EDIT: Shanahan YAC offenses are super favored too
 

keasley45

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Not even close to accurate. But ok. You clearly didn't watch him play the last 2 years. His tight window throws, and long ball was as good or better than anyone in the country.
One read? Wrong. Can't look beyond what is given? This isn't even sort of true. Game on the line, he is a MONSTER.
And go ahead and blitz him and see what happens. ONE game and people are acting like he's a crap QB. Correction, SOME are.

All this being said, I realize I don't know much about JJ either, so I get it.
The YouTube vid is of more than that one game.
 

Spin Doctor

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Aren't people worried that Penix has had something like four major injuries? That's got to have aged his body. He scares me cause he could end up being like RGIII. I would be, shocked if anyone picked him up before the 3rd round, tbh. You would almost have to draft 2 qb's like WAS did with RGIII.
Penix changed his style. He used to be seen as a mobile running QB. Penix would run hard and actively seek contact. On the Huskies he changed his play style to be a methodical pocket passer.

He is very skinny, that part worries me. All that being said, if we do draft Penix I think it’ll say a lot about him. Nobody has more information on Penix than we do.

Half of our offensive staff came from the huskies. Most of these guys have spent two years with Penix and have an up close view of his character, work habits and practices as well as in game footage.
 

DirectMessage

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Penix changed his style. He used to be seen as a mobile running QB. Penix would run hard and actively seek contact. On the Huskies he changed his play style to be a methodical pocket passer.

He is very skinny, that part worries me. All that being said, if we do draft Penix I think it’ll say a lot about him. Nobody has more information on Penix than we do.

Half of our offensive staff came from the huskies. Most of these guys have spent two years with Penix and have an up close view of his character, work habits and practices as well as in game footage.
It's hard to deny what Penix did in college. It's just hard committing the next 10 years to a guy who has had so many injury issues. I would rather take JJ or Bo Nix who might not be as accomplished in the passing department, but have less injury worries. I wouldn't mind if they took 2 QB's in the draft and got a young free agent, too. Their QB tree under Pete was so badly tended they might need to over compensate to get back to level. I seriously think these newwave coaches and their systems can make anyone a star in this league. The Rams, 49ers, Chiefs, are almost system qb's. Hopefully Grubb is in the same class, as Kyle, Sean, Reid.
 

Maelstrom787

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The Jordan Love model is looking like it'll be the one to follow here. Geno can start and compete and facilitate that learning process for our young guy as long as he needs to, and we'd do best not to rush that process because we're angsty for the next era as fans.

Take a guy with tools who you're confident will be durable enough to withstand the next level. A guy with a foundation to build on and some innate winning mentality. Don't mortgage the future on him, compete your ass off while he develops, and ease him in when the time comes.

It is the way. It's roster building how God intended it.
 

Ozzy

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I think a lot of people confuse wanting to move on from russ, with saying that he wasn't a good qb....

Over his past few years, at least from my perspective, he had reached a point where, for the cap space he was taking, there just wasn't any more room for improvement.

I never meant it as saying that he wasn't a good qb, just that the possible return we'd get in capital, and then the massive cap savings, it made sense to move on, probably a couple years earlier than we did imo.

He's still the best qb in franchise history, and will be for a long time.

I’m with you but many on this forum because they hate him now act as if he was just an average QB. The majority of people see it your way. Once a great QB and still it was time to move on from him.
 

Maelstrom787

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I’m with you but many on this forum because they hate him now act as if he was just an average QB. The majority of people see it your way. Once a great QB and still it was time to move on from him.
Young Russ is still my favorite QB ever. I detest older Russ, but that'll never take away from how much I loved early Russ.
 

Ozzy

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103.0 would've been 4th in the league last year for a quarterback taking a top-35 amount of snaps.

Geno Smith's down year had him at 92.1. This is 17th highest among qualifying passers.... between Josh Allen and Joe Burrow.

Players like Tua, Jake Browning, and Russell Wilson were higher.



Passer rating is hard. It favors guys operating in easy offenses so, so much over the higher degree of difficulty type of quarterbacking that a lot of teams need. Deep passers are inherently penalized. EDIT: Shanahan YAC offenses are super favored too

It does penalize deep passers which is why I think it’s odd the anti Russ crowd knocks the metric when it’s used as a defense of Russ. He was the best deep ball passer in the league and if anything it makes his passer rating numbers in Seattle even more impressive.

QBR has a ton of flaws too. It’s really hard to find a single metric that fits. That’s why I think it’s good to look at all of them and the eye test as well.
 

Ozzy

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Young Russ is still my favorite QB ever. I detest older Russ, but that'll never take away from how much I loved early Russ.

And I respect that, and I think it’s 100% fair.
 

Maelstrom787

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It does penalize deep passers which is why I think it’s odd the anti Russ crowd knocks the metric when it’s used as a defense of Russ. He was the best deep ball passer in the league and if anything it makes his passer rating numbers in Seattle even more impressive.

QBR has a ton of flaws too. It’s really hard to find a single metric that fits. That’s why I think it’s good to look at all of them and the eye test as well.
This was my primary defense of him in 2018-2019. His efficiency was absurd under the first couple of Schottenheimer offenses.
 

Ozzy

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This was my primary defense of him in 2018-2019. His efficiency was absurd under the first couple of Schottenheimer offenses.

I liked Schott more than most too. Wish they could’ve figured it out.
 

Maelstrom787

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I liked Schott more than most too. Wish they could’ve figured it out.
I LOVE Schottenheimer.

Part of the reason I turned on Russ is because they had it figured out. They found his perfect calling. We needed to keep the offense running through the ground game and then use Russell's innate strength in the deep game to deliver the knockout blows. 2018's playoff game was a failure where we took it too far on the ground, and 2019 we had it figured out and would've been in the NFCCG if we had sustained just one less injury to the RB core.

When Russ and/or Mark Rodgers started the pressure campaign to go Let Russ Cook on the world, I was out. When Russ wouldn't stand for a heavy rushing attack and wanted it to run through him on offense, that's when I couldn't go back to him. He NEEDS that rushing attack to move the chains, keep the offense on schedule, and mitigate all of his functional flaws as a game manager.

I get that he wanted to be the best ever, truly I do, but I just couldn't look past his refusal to embrace what allowed him to flourish. I think the divorce had to happen as soon as that precipice was reached, and I didn't like how disingenuous his camp was with the "I'm not requesting a trade, but here's the teams I'd accept a trade to" public announcement and then the circus the next year where he maintained his "Seahawk for life" outward comments while trying to orchestrate the firing of the front office behind the scenes. This could largely be his agent, but it really had me on the absolute "trade his ass. rip off the bandaid" train. Seahawks FO isn't totally clean in the matter, but their PR was mainly defensive and his camps was mainly offensive in my estimation.

I don't like disingenuous behavior from franchise icons. I don't like it from anyone. I like real ones. Heart-on-sleeve dudes. That's personal preference I guess, but he rubbed me as a fan the wrong way.

Part of why I took great delight in his failure was the vindication it provided to the franchise and the validation it provided to my own thoughts on who Russell is as a player. If someone wants him for the vet min and he'll actually accept a Schottenheimer-esque offensive vision, he can still be very very good. Not good as in the 2023 Broncos where he had some fun stats and moments but was still overall dysfunctional in terms of consistently moving the offense, but good as in the 2018/2019 version of Russ that had him on the Mount Rushmore of NFL quarterbacks.

If the Steelers can improve their rushing efficiency a bit, he could be a bit dangerous there. I think Pickens would probably be a challenging personality fit with Russ, but that aside, it's a good fit.
 

keasley45

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I’m with you but many on this forum because they hate him now act as if he was just an average QB. The majority of people see it your way. Once a great QB and still it was time to move on from him.
Russ is an enigma. Awlays will be. 'NFL Great, brilliance' (prime cut steak), served on a paper thin plate, with a side of cold fries. If you just concentrate on the steak... its unbelievable. Top 5 ever. The overall meal? Meh. BUT ITS STEAK, so who cares that the plate just collapsed and the last 4 ounces fell on the ground.

He was never good at reading defense. Ever. Nor was he ever good at being able to see the field or throw with anticipation.

AND, IT DIDNT MATTER, when he chose to use his legs, a la Lamar Jackson and punished defenses on the ground alongside Lynch, and through the air with ADB.

That made him the most spectacular thing in football for a few years.

But two seemingly opposite things CAN be true at the same time. Because it seems people forget the three and out machine he was when he was actually kept to the play script early in games and instead, attribute the ineptitude to Pete being conservative. Even now, with him gone, we don't resemble the stumbling offense we did, while in Denver, the 3 and outs are alive and well.

So it's not hate to say the flaws that he has now, he always had, and that while he was great, part of his greatness was watching him overcoming them himself.

I mean there's a team full of former players who have spoken on the issue that broke the team being lack of accountability, and that his failures weren't measured the same way others were (ie, he was allowed to stink up the joint and not be reprimanded, while the D had to pick up the slack) to the point it boiled over on the sideline... during a game. To think his own teammates were frustrated at his flaws and that fans shouldn't have been because he was spectacular for a period... one will never be able to divorce his great play from the fact that he had one of the best defenses of all time giving him the ball back everytimr we'd punt it away, and that he had a future HOF running back keeping defenses honest. He was spectacular in THAT setting. Outside of that period, 2019 was an incredible year for him. But just as soon as he seemed to 'figure it out' defenses changed and he was pretty quickly solved in a way that has rendered his game ineffective since, even if his stats look great. Hes become an overpriced cross between Alex Smith and Jeff Blake - killer bombs occassionally, and master of hitting the relief valve / high percentage completion.

Sure, he was great. Incredible even. But so was his supporting cast. Even through 2020, save for 2017, he always had a top 5 or 10 running game behund him. Always.
 

Lagartixa

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It's hard to deny what Penix did in college. It's just hard committing the next 10 years to a guy who has had so many injury issues. I would rather take JJ or Bo Nix who might not be as accomplished in the passing department, but have less injury worries. I wouldn't mind if they took 2 QB's in the draft and got a young free agent, too. Their QB tree under Pete was so badly tended they might need to over compensate to get back to level. I seriously think these newwave coaches and their systems can make anyone a star in this league. The Rams, 49ers, Chiefs, are almost system qb's. Hopefully Grubb is in the same class, as Kyle, Sean, Reid.

There's no need to commit for ten years, especially to a guy who's already about to enter his expected athletic-peak years (ages 25-28). A rookie contract is for four years, and it's only fully guaranteed if the player is taken in the first round of the draft.
Because of his age, Penix is the kind of guy you might want on his rookie contract, especially because he's likely to be taken outside the first round (well, he better be!), and then, assuming he's a decent NFL starter on his rookie contract, start looking for his replacement around the middle (beginning of year three) of his rookie contract.

Something that used to happen a lot in professional sports is that teams would give big contracts to guys just past their expected athletic peaks (ages 28-30), looking at those players' tremendous performance in their age-25 to age-27 or age-28 seasons, and then regret the contracts. Penix's first non-rookie contract will be after his expected athletic-peak years, so even if he's been decent or better in the NFL on his rookie contract, some team might end up overpaying him and regretting it.
Of course, there's a chance (a pretty good one, given his age and injury history) he won't even be decent on his rookie contract, and there's some chance he'll be much better than decent. But if the Seahawks like him, they can draft him and not have to commit to him for even four years, much less ten.
 
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