Exotic run game - look no further then our division.

[gowazzu02]

So I kept thinking about this after PC's we need to run more decree and prior to Schotty's firing.

But I don't completely disagree with the Run to win mentality - But you have to be creative with it.

I don't know nearly enough about the X's and O's of a run game but Kyle Shannahan was able to have a really good run game this year despite massive injuries to top running backs and no quarterback to keep defenses honest.

McVay was able to run through a stable of RB's before Akers stepped forward.

What are those two guys doing in the run game that Schotty wasn't? It seemed that half of our run plays were inside/outside zone runs out of shotgun.

 

[HawksSoc]

Isn't the problem with this that Pete has shown no evidence of wanting any sort of 'exotic' in his run game? If we were to build an attack like San Fran's that would be sweet, I just don't think we will be anywhere near that.

I'd just like us to keep passing on First Down a little more!

 

[scutterhawk]

it's look no further THAN

 

[scutterhawk]

It's look no further THAN, signed........Nitpicker :lol:

 

[AgentDib]

The guy on the 49ers who we would want is their run game coordinator Mike McDaniel. That seems like a strong hire for OC to me as he's getting much of the credit for their efficiency and we could keep Canales on as the passing game coordinator as Russ seems to work well with him. I don't know that LaFleur or Shanahan are doing anything very creative themselves.

The Rams offense isn't interesting to me personally. Their offense has been efficient when they have a strong healthy RB and inefficient otherwise, much like our own offense. I saw some Rams spilts that were night and day between healthy Gurley/healthy Akers and anybody else, and if that's what we were after then we could have just kept Schotty.

Another thing to consider is that we can also poach other OCs around the league provided we give them the title of Assistant Head Coach as part of the job. We don't currently have an assistant head coach, and that is an intriguing possibility to me given that Carroll probably only has a few years left and so Hawks Assistant Head Coach is likely an attractive job position for many right now.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And not so predictable, all the time. When you can call out the play from the couch, that's a problem.
Not only predictable, but not creative at all. And blatant refusal to adjust. That's is my #1 gripe about the coaching, NO adjusting. Over and over again.

 

[Jerhawk]

It's frustrating seeing them only call a few variations of running formations.

Again, my football knowledge level is about from what you'd learn in Madden, so bear with me.

It seems like we only call the following running plays:

Read option out of shotgun up the gut
Hand off in single back formation, up the gut
The occasional failed toss play
The fly sweep

And..thats it. Where's the traps? Counters? Effective tosses? Stretch?

The running game is just so bland, boring and predictable. We need to mix it up and spice it up!

 

[GeekHawk]

I'm seeing a lot of really stupid posts all over the place in here about how all the blame for the offensive woes is all Pete's fault and firing the OC is just covering his butt. What on Earth would ever convince any single person in here that PC designs the Xs and Os of the offense? He says he wants to run it more, and more effectively, and Schottenheimer proved himself unable to design run plays that are effective in today's NFL. Does that mean that PC is to blame for not designing effective plays on offense? Or does that mean that the person he hired to do so was not able to perform his job? (Need a hint? #2...) He was allowed 3 years of not being hobbled by a cable O-line to prove himself, then was fired for not producing. Seems reasonable to me. Now I read a lot of stupid crap posts about how PC will only hire a yes-man that does exactly as he says and won't design effective run plays. What could that possibly be based on? The fact that Schotty was just fired for not producing effective (read, at least semi-exotic) run plays seems to prove just the opposite.

In much the same way, PC also wants effective chunk plays (long passes), but all of bevel's designed plays for that had 3 WRs converging on one spot way downfield so they could all be easily covered by 2 D-backs (freeing up the rest of the D to stop our runs). So out he went as well.

It's like PC is hiring people to get him a good fast car and they keep coming back with Ford Pintos. So he fires that one and hires another to do the same, but gets the same result. That doesn't mean he's telling them to go get him Ford Pintos, it means that's what they're producing and getting fired for.

 

[hoxrox]

They use their FB Juicecheck a lot. We have Bellore on the team, but I'm not sure what he does other than special teams.

 

[ivotuk]

The guy on the 49ers who we would want is their run game coordinator Mike McDaniel. That seems like a strong hire for OC to me as he's getting much of the credit for their efficiency and we could keep Canales on as the passing game coordinator as Russ seems to work well with him. I don't know that LaFleur or Shanahan are doing anything very creative themselves.

The Rams offense isn't interesting to me personally. Their offense has been efficient when they have a strong healthy RB and inefficient otherwise, much like our own offense. I saw some Rams spilts that were night and day between healthy Gurley/healthy Akers and anybody else, and if that's what we were after then we could have just kept Schotty.

Another thing to consider is that we can also poach other OCs around the league provided we give them the title of Assistant Head Coach as part of the job. We don't currently have an assistant head coach, and that is an intriguing possibility to me given that Carroll probably only has a few years left and so Hawks Assistant Head Coach is likely an attractive job position for many right now.

That's the one! Joe Fann , who knows him really well, says McDaniel has McVey type recall!!!


The NFL’s next great offensive mind is hiding on the 49ers coaching staff
San Francisco 49ers run-game coordinator Mike McDaniel isn’t in a hurry to take the league by storm as a play-caller.


https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01/28/ ... 9ers/quote

 

[ivotuk]

Joe Fann NBC sports northwest loves McDaniel (so does Kittle and Juscyk).

San Francisco’s run game coordinator is viewed as one of the top minds in football, especially as it pertains to his creative and unique run looks. He has been by Shanahan’s side for years now but appears ready to climb the next rung up the coaching ladder.

The 49ers pass game coordinator Mike LaFleur is also likely to get offers to call plays next season, but McDaniel would be a more logical fit in Seattle. One of the two are expected to go with Robert Saleh wherever he decides to accept a head coach position.

nbcsports.com/northwest/seahawks/7-potential-candidates-be-seahawks-next-offensive-coordinator

 

[Somos doces]

Then what does our divison do?

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'm seeing a lot of really stupid posts all over the place in here about how all the blame for the offensive woes is all Pete's fault and firing the OC is just covering his butt. What on Earth would ever convince any single person in here that PC designs the Xs and Os of the offense? He says he wants to run it more, and more effectively, and Schottenheimer proved himself unable to design run plays that are effective in today's NFL. Does that mean that PC is to blame for not designing effective plays on offense? Or does that mean that the person he hired to do so was not able to perform his job? (Need a hint? #2...) He was allowed 3 years of not being hobbled by a cable O-line to prove himself, then was fired for not producing. Seems reasonable to me. Now I read a lot of stupid crap posts about how PC will only hire a yes-man that does exactly as he says and won't design effective run plays. What could that possibly be based on? The fact that Schotty was just fired for not producing effective (read, at least semi-exotic) run plays seems to prove just the opposite.

In much the same way, PC also wants effective chunk plays (long passes), but all of bevel's designed plays for that had 3 WRs converging on one spot way downfield so they could all be easily covered by 2 D-backs (freeing up the rest of the D to stop our runs). So out he went as well.

It's like PC is hiring people to get him a good fast car and they keep coming back with Ford Pintos. So he fires that one and hires another to do the same, but gets the same result. That doesn't mean he's telling them to go get him Ford Pintos, it means that's what they're producing and getting fired for.

Carroll stated that the playbook was going to be mostly his when Schottenheimer was hired... Schottenheimer didn't even get to bring his own playbook, he was literally handed one. He got to add a few things, but when push comes to shove we all know who this offense really belongs to.

 

[94Smith]

:49ersmall: :snack:

 

[GeekHawk]

Well then, you guys just carry on with your little circle-jerk and I'll nope straight out of this stupid-a** thread.

 

[thegameq]

OKay, I'll ask; what is an exotic run game exactly?

 

[hoxrox]

Maybe we can resign Fant, and line up with JUMBO package. Is that exotic?

 

[AgentDib]

Carroll stated that the playbook was going to be mostly his when Schottenheimer was hired... Schottenheimer didn't even get to bring his own playbook, he was literally handed one. He got to add a few things, but when push comes to shove we all know who this offense really belongs to.

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic here, but Schotty did make an attempt when he was first hired to integrate some of Bevell's more successful plays and terminology with his own stuff. The idea there is two-fold; it lessens the learning overhead on the players for the upcoming season and it's pretty reasonable to make use of what was working well for Russ previously. From that point the playbook constantly evolves over time as the OC tweaks it based on what is and isn't working, but it didn't start with 100% Schotty's material.

OKay, I'll ask; what is an exotic run game exactly?

People mostly just define that by whether the run game is effective or not. However, back in the day teams were either all angle(power) blocking or they were all zone blocking. One of the things that modern run game coordinators do is to blend those concepts thoroughly in order to keep defenses off balance. Personally, I am a big fan of running schemes that use a similar play repeatedly but with different personnel groupings, formations, and motion that keep the defenses guessing.

 

[xray]

OKay, I'll ask; what is an exotic run game exactly?

The RB hurdles the line riding a unicorn .

 

[thegameq]

Carroll stated that the playbook was going to be mostly his when Schottenheimer was hired... Schottenheimer didn't even get to bring his own playbook, he was literally handed one. He got to add a few things, but when push comes to shove we all know who this offense really belongs to.

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic here, but Schotty did make an attempt when he was first hired to integrate some of Bevell's more successful plays and terminology with his own stuff. The idea there is two-fold; it lessens the learning overhead on the players for the upcoming season and it's pretty reasonable to make use of what was working well for Russ previously. From that point the playbook constantly evolves over time as the OC tweaks it based on what is and isn't working, but it didn't start with 100% Schotty's material.

OKay, I'll ask; what is an exotic run game exactly?

People mostly just define that by whether the run game is effective or not. However, back in the day teams were either all angle(power) blocking or they were all zone blocking. One of the things that modern run game coordinators do is to blend those concepts thoroughly in order to keep defenses off balance. Personally, I am a big fan of running schemes that use a similar play repeatedly but with different personnel groupings, formations, and motion that keep the defenses guessing.

I'm guessing that's what the Rams and Niners do--give you multiple looks for the same play or vice versa. I've always wondered why the Seahawks don't do that since it would seem like a no-brainer.