Does anyone else think Seattle won the trade?

[LeaveLynchAlone]

The ownership could have asked Wilson why he wanted out and eliminated the reason being Pete Carroll. Thats what should have happened, but that would have made to much sense.

 

[MagnificentSeven]

I voted yes. I loved the carefully curated "Russ" persona, I loved the weekly visits to the Children's hospital, I loved the play on the field (mostly). I will always have a special place in my heart for Wilson, however, it became apparent a year ago that there was a divorce brewing because the two sides had gotten what they wanted out of the relationship, but were trending in different directions in the future. The fact that the entire process was largely amicable (well, perhaps aside from the "Russ will never sign another contract in Seattle" part to force a trade) and the two sides found a way to make the best of a bad situation. Let's face it, Seattle didn't want to give up a franchise QB, even for a decent haul of players and picks, and Russ didn't really think Denver was his first and best option. They both settled for the best they could get given the circumstances. In some ways, I think both teams could "win" here, just like I think both could eventually "lose", and only then will we know for sure whether the team and the player should've made more of an effort to stick it out together.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don't think it's particularly smart to let a single player determine the direction of a franchise.

Especially one who is on the wrong side of 30, who relies almost solely on a single special characteristic (now that his other one, speed, is already gone) that tends to rapidly decline once a player over 35.

How is that a no-brainer? How is that smart? How does that provide a brighter future for the team?

 

[TwistedHusky]

I would rather have a HOF QB on the wrong side of 30 than a coach on the wrong side of 70. At least a QB can be effective for another 5 or even 7 years, given the new rules. Brady and Manning did it to their 40s.

As for letting a single player determine the direction of the franchise, isn't that what we are doing by keeping an aging HC and GM? One person making all the decisions?

If Bill Parcells, Marv Levy, Jimmy Johson, and Tom Coughlin all couldn't be effective coaches into their 70s, what makes us think that a lesser coach like Carroll could? And we are asking Carroll to be not just the coach but GM too.

 

[Palmegranite]

I don't think it's particularly smart to let a single player determine the direction of a franchise.

Well, history says different, mostly. Current examples Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers. Other sports: Steph Curry, Lebron, Wayne Gretzky, etc, etc etc.
When you have an offensive superstar, smart coach hands them the keys(plans for the superstar), then sits back and collects the accolades and championships.

Dum-dum coach tries to mold the superstar to their "philosopy".
Well, I guess we'll see this year. With a dearth of that special single player, it will be an interesting season.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Well, history says different, mostly. Current examples Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers. Other sports: Steph Curry, Lebron, Wayne Gretzky, etc, etc etc.
When you have an offensive superstar, smart coach hands them the keys(plans for the superstar), then sits back and collects the accolades and championships.

Dum-dum coach tries to mold the superstar to their "philosopy".
Well, I guess we'll see this year. With a dearth of that special single player, it will be an interesting season.

The difference being that Russell clearly does not have the same type of game as Rodgers and Brady.

Wilson relies almost solely on that deep ball. He's statistically average or worse in most other categories. He's bad at timing passes, bad at short passes, can't throw screens, and doesn't use the intermediate middle of the field.

That's not the type of game that ages well into the 40s, and it's certainly not the type of player I'd hand the keys to the franchise to at, what, age 33? As he perceptibly declines?

Everything points to this looking much more like Roethlisberger's path than Brady or Rodgers.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I would rather have a HOF QB on the wrong side of 30 than a coach on the wrong side of 70. At least a QB can be effective for another 5 or even 7 years, given the new rules. Brady and Manning did it to their 40s.

As for letting a single player determine the direction of the franchise, isn't that what we are doing by keeping an aging HC and GM? One person making all the decisions?

If Bill Parcells, Marv Levy, Jimmy Johson, and Tom Coughlin all couldn't be effective coaches into their 70s, what makes us think that a lesser coach like Carroll could? And we are asking Carroll to be not just the coach but GM too.

No, Twisted. Letting a single player determine the direction of the franchise is not the same as letting an executive do it, and I don't think I need to explain that. I think you already know that.

Also, you don't get a massive haul of return capital to build for the future when keeping the aging deep ball quarterback. You get nothing but a couple more shots until his arm declines.

He's only 4 years younger than Matt Ryan. His redeeming deep accuracy is not going to last.

 

[toffee]

The difference being that Russell clearly does not have the same type of game as Rodgers and Brady.

Wilson relies almost solely on that deep ball. He's statistically average or worse in most other categories. He's bad at timing passes, bad at short passes, can't throw screens, and doesn't use the intermediate middle of the field.

That's not the type of game that ages well into the 40s, and it's certainly not the type of player I'd hand the keys to the franchise to at, what, age 33? As he perceptibly declines?

Everything points to this looking much more like Roethlisberger's path than Brady or Rodgers.

Big Ben? Russ has that extra element of running with the ball, he was our team"s leading rusher not that long ago. But his running ability will decline unless he had some frank gore in him.

Without running, Russ will be easier to defend.

 

[BASF]

Lastly, some of your opinions and evaluation on Wilson are so far off the mark it's laughable. Some of you guys sound like a jealous ex bad mouthing their former lover after a breakup, pointing out little faults here and there when in reality, you're depressed you're not together.

Wilson did a lot of great things here, and he has a lot of great football left in him (barring injury). Nitpicking on his weaknesses and ignoring his strengths is petty.

Some of us have been pointing out the "weaknesses" in Wilson's play for the past few years. Depressed we're not together? Comical.

Everything hinges on a person's perspective. His strengths are throwing deep and improv. Do you actually not see that Wilson chooses to not throw to the schemed open receiver? When you see Wilson choose to throw deeper than the open receiver that would get us a first down, do you think, that was a much better decision? Does it hinge on whether or not the pass was completed? I have been thrilled by Wilson and his improv deep completions like any other Seahawks fan, but seeing the receivers that were schemed open reactions when they are incomplete is telling.

I would have had zero problem with keeping Wilson five years ago when he had not hit his ceiling, when he had not lost a step, when he was willing to run the called plays, and when good defenses had not figured out how to play him. Russ decided that he is bigger than the team and after that happened our team has barely been successful.

 

[BASF]

Big Ben? Russ has that extra element of running with the ball, he was our team"s leading rusher not that long ago. But his running ability will decline unless he had some frank gore in him.

Without running, Russ will be easier to defend.

Not that long ago was five years ago. That is a long time in terms of the NFL especially when north of thirty years of age.

 

[Appyhawk]

Russ will find life more difficult without Lockett to bail him out.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There is a lot being made about the whole deep ball thing as if that is the big thing that Wilson brought to the table.

You know that isn't his greatest strength right?

Deep ball accuracy MIGHT diminish with age in the next 5 years. Probably. Maybe not. Not sure if it matters.

Wilson's strength is that he gets better under pressure. And that he is nails in the RZ.

That isn't changing before he hits 40. Maybe the RZ % will as his velocity drops with age. Not even sure then.

If throwing the deep ball was the big thing, then guys like Jeff Blake and Rex Grossman would have been much more coveted.
Yes Wilson typically had receivers that could high point the ball, hold the redline, and because he was asked to read the coverage AFTER the snap - he was expected to and did get the ball to receivers that were covered - because he could place the ball away from the coverage or because the receiver could be trusted to win those 50/50 balls. But that isn't what makes Wilson win.

Wilson is exceptional because:

- He gets better under pressure
- He is exceptional in the RZ
- He throws the ball tremendously accurately while on the move (which is difficult to defend)

The deep ball is just a nice bonus that lines up with Pete's blind obsession with big plays.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

I would rather have a HOF QB on the wrong side of 30 than a coach on the wrong side of 70. At least a QB can be effective for another 5 or even 7 years, given the new rules. Brady and Manning did it to their 40s.

As for letting a single player determine the direction of the franchise, isn't that what we are doing by keeping an aging HC and GM? One person making all the decisions?

If Bill Parcells, Marv Levy, Jimmy Johson, and Tom Coughlin all couldn't be effective coaches into their 70s, what makes us think that a lesser coach like Carroll could? And we are asking Carroll to be not just the coach but GM too.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Well, history says different, mostly. Current examples Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers. Other sports: Steph Curry, Lebron, Wayne Gretzky, etc, etc etc.
When you have an offensive superstar, smart coach hands them the keys(plans for the superstar), then sits back and collects the accolades and championships.

Dum-dum coach tries to mold the superstar to their "philosopy".
Well, I guess we'll see this year. With a dearth of that special single player, it will be an interesting season.

 

[Lagartixa]

The greatest fear is paying near top dollar to a nowhere near top player. Ask the 49ers.
Those are guaranteed. You are stuck when you pay a Jimmy G or a Drew Lock big money for not very big results.

Drew Lock's 2022 cap number is $1,451,022. That's not "big money." And there haven't been even rumors of the Seahawks giving Lock an extension now. So why would you mention paying "a Drew Lock" big money?

Wilson is exceptional because:

- He gets better under pressure

One man's "gets better under pressure" is another man's "dogs it when it's not a pressure situation." Of course, I think it's neither and it's more random chance. But if you can say Wilson is better under pressure, a critic of Wilson would be just as correct to say Wilson dogs it in what he perceives to be non-pressure situations.

 

[sc85sis]

I always thought Wilson was going to play majority if not all of his career as a Seahawk. I still cant believe he is gone. With that said, no we did not win in this trade. You dont giveup a HOF QB or changing a playoff team to a below bottom tier team, as winning a trade. We are gambling to find a qb for several years maybe decade to find one if not more. Meanwhile our highest paid players will be our wide receivers and we have two backup QBs to throw to them. We have one of the oldest head coach & a predictable one that wont change his ways, who is relying on an often injured RBs & rookie RB to carry the team for the future. The only superstar on defense is Adams and we have no idea how to use him.

I do like our draft picks probably the best since 2012.

Pete won’t change his ways and yet the D has seen some changes over the last several years and now a complete change in scheme during this off-season. He won’t change his ways yet he’s switched OCs multiple times trying to make Russ happy, and this last change involved a major scheme update to use shorter passes and crossing patterns in addition to the long ball.

No he’s not going to go to a pass-happy offense. But people act as if all Pete wants to do is the old “three yards and a cloud of dust,” and that’s just silly. He wants balance. He wants a run game and play action. Neither of those things is bad - even in today’s game.

 

[Jerhawk]

Some of us have been pointing out the "weaknesses" in Wilson's play for the past few years. Depressed we're not together? Comical.

Everything hinges on a person's perspective. His strengths are throwing deep and improv. Do you actually not see that Wilson chooses to not throw to the schemed open receiver? When you see Wilson choose to throw deeper than the open receiver that would get us a first down, do you think, that was a much better decision? Does it hinge on whether or not the pass was completed? I have been thrilled by Wilson and his improv deep completions like any other Seahawks fan, but seeing the receivers that were schemed open reactions when they are incomplete is telling.

I would have had zero problem with keeping Wilson five years ago when he had not hit his ceiling, when he had not lost a step, when he was willing to run the called plays, and when good defenses had not figured out how to play him. Russ decided that he is bigger than the team and after that happened our team has barely been successful.

Every player has weaknesses.
I would argue that a consistent lack of pass protection has resulted in Wilson not developing properly with going through his reads. He's always been the QB to lock onto his hot receiver, and if it's not there, he starts scrambling.
And yes I agree that chucking the ball long on 3rd and 2 was frustrating. He does have weaknesses.

But his strengths greatly outweigh those weaknesses. He was a true leader and team captain, which can't be coached. When the chips were down, we could always count on Wilson pulling us out the fire. He was very durable. He never had legal problems off the field. There are a ton of positives to what he brought this franchise other than a nice long ball. Stuff that can't be coached.

That's all gone now. When you land a true franchise QB like Wilson, you keep him. Plain and simple. He's proven he could be a pocket passer. The issue again is his constant lack of a pocket to pass in. If we left this past draft with Wilson, Mafe or Walker with Abraham Lucas, that would be a much better feeling that what we have going into this season.

And if you do deal your franchise QB, then have a back up plan. There was zero benefit to trading Wilson. The face of the franchise.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Big Ben? Russ has that extra element of running with the ball, he was our team"s leading rusher not that long ago. But his running ability will decline unless he had some frank gore in him.

Without running, Russ will be easier to defend.

Russ runs a 5 flat these days, if he's lucky. It looks pretty apparent that he's lost the quickness needed to escape consistently out of the back of the pocket.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

I don’t think Russ is washed…not even close.

But, we do know it wasn’t working out here.

Perhaps we shouldn’t view it as either A or B?

As fans, you e got to be excited about the next chapter. In my opinion, we’re off to a great start.

Thankful for Russ but, if he’s truly demanding $50M per year, I have no doubt we made the right choice.

Yeah, I'm starting to get more intrigued with the excellent draft, listening to that podcast with Jim Nagy (best synopsis on Drew Lock out there) Clint Hurtt OTA press conference, hearing about leadership in players, can't wait to see Kenneth Walker run the rock, etc. There's so many storylines to see play out.

Feels more like a team that is coming together rather than having a QB that legitimately gives us a shot but the rest is held together with cheap band aids. Going into games just hoping for Russ to be at his best and generally being outplayed by teams on the rise who are cultivating talent in all phases of the game.

Nothing is guaranteed. But, I think we've seen a few seasons where seemingly just patchwork gets us.

 

[Maelstrom787]

There is a lot being made about the whole deep ball thing as if that is the big thing that Wilson brought to the table.

You know that isn't his greatest strength right?

Deep ball accuracy MIGHT diminish with age in the next 5 years. Probably. Maybe not. Not sure if it matters.

Wilson's strength is that he gets better under pressure. And that he is nails in the RZ.

That isn't changing before he hits 40. Maybe the RZ % will as his velocity drops with age. Not even sure then.

If throwing the deep ball was the big thing, then guys like Jeff Blake and Rex Grossman would have been much more coveted.
Yes Wilson typically had receivers that could high point the ball, hold the redline, and because he was asked to read the coverage AFTER the snap - he was expected to and did get the ball to receivers that were covered - because he could place the ball away from the coverage or because the receiver could be trusted to win those 50/50 balls. But that isn't what makes Wilson win.

Wilson is exceptional because:

- He gets better under pressure
- He is exceptional in the RZ
- He throws the ball tremendously accurately while on the move (which is difficult to defend)

The deep ball is just a nice bonus that lines up with Pete's blind obsession with big plays.

I wholeheartedly disagree that his deep accuracy is not his greatest asset. Sure, it doesn't diminish much on the move, but he can't move as well anymore. He can't consistently escape the pocket, which is often clean when he bails anyway.

I find it odd that you'd criticize Pete for a "blind obsession" with big plays when defending a player who outright refuses (almost like he can't see them, but he can) open targets in favor of big plays.

Pete and Russ were a better fit for each other than most want to admit, but Russ just hasn't developed in areas that most good quarterbacks need to, and that's why the offense was always behind schedule.