Does anyone else think Seattle won the trade?

[Maelstrom787]

Well, history says different, mostly. Current examples Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers. Other sports: Steph Curry, Lebron, Wayne Gretzky, etc, etc etc.
When you have an offensive superstar, smart coach hands them the keys(plans for the superstar), then sits back and collects the accolades and championships.

Dum-dum coach tries to mold the superstar to their "philosopy".
Well, I guess we'll see this year. With a dearth of that special single player, it will be an interesting season.

I'd also like to ask how Pete is forcing Russ into a philosophy? What philosophy are we talking here? What's been missed by the coaching staff here?

We already pretty much know that his Denver offense is going to be largely the same damn thing. Ya know why? Russ has a particular set of skills and weaknesses that don't lend themselves to versatility whatsoever. Every offense he's in will eventually funnel down into a 80% identical RW offense.

Also, you're bringing up Rodgers as an example, but his front office has been openly adversarial to him - Rodgers wasn't given the keys to the franchise. You think Rodgers drafted Jordan Love and AJ Dillon? C'mon. You think Rodgers traded Davante Adams?

Also, Green Bay is run heavy. Not sure why people miss that.

 

[toffee]

Russ runs a 5 flat these days, if he's lucky. It looks pretty apparent that he's lost the quickness needed to escape consistently out of the back of the pocket.

you and I agree on most topics, but not sure about the 5 sec flat. Not sure if Pete knows as Russ may not want to be timed, the question of intrigue, does Bronco know Russ's current 40yard time?

 

[Maelstrom787]

you and I agree on most topics, but not sure about the 5 sec flat. Not sure if Pete knows as Russ may not want to be timed, the question of intrigue, does Bronco know Russ's current 40yard time?

I don't think anyone cares about the time itself, it's kind of overrated.

All I know is that I wouldn't be able to trust him to run the read option and get much yardage, and I don't trust him trying to get out of the back of the pocket, which he used to be able to do like clockwork.

 

[scutterhawk]

Big Ben? Russ has that extra element of running with the ball, he was our team"s leading rusher not that long ago. But his running ability will decline unless he had some frank gore in him.

Without running, Russ will be easier to defend.

Yep, the Rams Defense had proven how to stymie & somewhat neutralize Wilson's tendencies to cut & run around, trying to buy time so's to make the big splash plays, and it won't be too long before other Defenses figure out & break that same code.
A more youthful, faster, bigger, and just as athletic Patric Mahomes in the AFC (Wilson's new Division Rivals) has been somewhat hemmed in, shows that SOMETHING ELSE needs to be added to their repertoire if they are going to further their successes.
Brady & Rodgers are using different skillsets that lends to their longevities.

 

[toffee]

I don't think anyone cares about the time itself, it's kind of overrated.

All I know is that I wouldn't be able to trust him to run the read option and get much yardage, and I don't trust him trying to get out of the back of the pocket, which he used to be able to do like clockwork.

So true!

 

[FrodosFinger]

Yeah he's lost accuracy, mobility and pocket awareness. But his elusiveness hasn't been there for 2 plus years now. Add to that the thickness around the belly and faster D linemen and that's a recipe for 4 wins in Denver next season all season for the Broncs. 4 and 13

 

[rcaido]

The difference is that the Rams has played against Wilson at least twice a year for 10 years. Its a predictable offense to boot. When the other team already knows what you're doing both on offense & defense.

As for Wilson speed, he is still more elusive then majority of all NFL QB. He is 4th ALL-TIME in rushing yards for a QB. ALL-TIME

He actually came back to form 2020 from previous years. He had 513yrd(4th) w/ only 83 attempts. 50less then the other 3. More rushing yards then Hill, Watson, Allen, Hurts, & Mahomes. The other 3 were Murray, Jackson & newton, but like i said had 50 less attempts.

He did all that while still throwing for 4,000 plus yards. He was the second most pressured QB that year and had 130 passer rating of down field passes under pressure which lead the league. He also had 8td:0int when being pressured.

 

[BASF]

Every player has weaknesses.
I would argue that a consistent lack of pass protection has resulted in Wilson not developing properly with going through his reads. He's always been the QB to lock onto his hot receiver, and if it's not there, he starts scrambling.
And yes I agree that chucking the ball long on 3rd and 2 was frustrating. He does have weaknesses.

But his strengths greatly outweigh those weaknesses. He was a true leader and team captain, which can't be coached. When the chips were down, we could always count on Wilson pulling us out the fire. He was very durable. He never had legal problems off the field. There are a ton of positives to what he brought this franchise other than a nice long ball. Stuff that can't be coached.

That's all gone now. When you land a true franchise QB like Wilson, you keep him. Plain and simple. He's proven he could be a pocket passer. The issue again is his constant lack of a pocket to pass in. If we left this past draft with Wilson, Mafe or Walker with Abraham Lucas, that would be a much better feeling that what we have going into this season.

And if you do deal your franchise QB, then have a back up plan. There was zero benefit to trading Wilson. The face of the franchise.

Wilson did not want to play in Seattle. I know it is hard for some to wrap their heads around it, but that is the reality.

The "Let Russ Cook" movement began with his failure to beat Aaron Rodgers in the divisional round in 2019 despite throwing more passes and running the ball more. He was the offense since we had to bring Lynch back from retirement. He got the blame for the offense not getting it done, so the blame shift to he is being held back by his coaches.

So, we tried letting Russ cook and good defenses were intercepting his passes, several of which were throws that should not have been made. So, when "Let Russ Cook" failed against good pass defenses it was the offensive line that he blamed.

So, in 2021, he ran the new offense for one game. Game two it was back to the same route combinations and him not throwing to his underneath receivers that would get us first downs. Carroll was asked about it, said he wished Wilson would have helped us taking what was there. Instead Wilson was taking deep shots into double coverage. When asked, Wilson said, "I know how to win, and I am not changing my mindset." He couldn't really blame the line because they played much better last season than they had previously.

He does not want to play the game the way the QBs that he believes he is equal to play. He does not take what the defense gives him, which is exactly the way Brady and Rodgers play. Everything that people say about him staying in Seattle hinges on them believing what he said in public regarding the situation. The question is why do they believe him? He told our front office that he wouldn't resign with Seattle, but in public he said he wanted to be a Seahawk for life. So why believe anything he said. Half of his media campaigns have been to shift blame off of himself for his part in the teams failures.

 

[Scout]

Wilson even at his age is capable athletically to help his team win games even if he is not in his prime. But to carry teams throughout a season and into the playoffs and win at his age he needs to let go of the my way or the highway mentality.

Even young Mahomes last season was taking all the underneath routes because teams were playing the Chiefs and Bucs with heavy cover 2 and not letting them go deep in the passing game. I would argue that the Chiefs not only unloaded T. Hill this off season, because of the massive contract he was asking. But also they realized they need to diversify their offensive approach as it can't be all about the deep passing attack.

Juju does his work underneath while Valdez-Scantling does his work over the top. Then they have younger guys in Moore and Hardman that can cover the underneath and over the top routes.

JuJu and Valdez-Scantling are known to be run blockers as well.

Chiefs are going to play even more smash mouth with a pretty good OL and passes underneath. Then the deep passes will open up for Mahomes.

Does Wilson buy into running the football and taking the underneath routes to laser downfield passes when the safeties are sucked in with some play action?

I do not know. I do not know.

It is up to Wilson if he wants to be a more complete QB at his age. At this point it is not the Seahawks choice or the Broncos choice but a R. Wilson choice on what type of QB he will be moving forward?

 

[Jerhawk]

Wilson did not want to play in Seattle. I know it is hard for some to wrap their heads around it, but that is the reality.

The "Let Russ Cook" movement began with his failure to beat Aaron Rodgers in the divisional round in 2019 despite throwing more passes and running the ball more. He was the offense since we had to bring Lynch back from retirement. He got the blame for the offense not getting it done, so the blame shift to he is being held back by his coaches.

So, we tried letting Russ cook and good defenses were intercepting his passes, several of which were throws that should not have been made. So, when "Let Russ Cook" failed against good pass defenses it was the offensive line that he blamed.

So, in 2021, he ran the new offense for one game. Game two it was back to the same route combinations and him not throwing to his underneath receivers that would get us first downs. Carroll was asked about it, said he wished Wilson would have helped us taking what was there. Instead Wilson was taking deep shots into double coverage. When asked, Wilson said, "I know how to win, and I am not changing my mindset." He couldn't really blame the line because they played much better last season than they had previously.

He does not want to play the game the way the QBs that he believes he is equal to play. He does not take what the defense gives him, which is exactly the way Brady and Rodgers play. Everything that people say about him staying in Seattle hinges on them believing what he said in public regarding the situation. The question is why do they believe him? He told our front office that he wouldn't resign with Seattle, but in public he said he wanted to be a Seahawk for life. So why believe anything he said. Half of his media campaigns have been to shift blame off of himself for his part in the teams failures.

He didn't want to keep playing under Carroll's conservative scheme. He would've played the rest of his career with the Seahawks had they adapted an offense that better suited his skill set. He has no ill content towards this city or franchise.

As for the rest of the history lesson, I'm well aware of what went down. I'm just as invested in this team as you and everyone else here.

It was a mystery why they changed their offense halfway through the Titans game last season. And then they asked Wilson what went wrong and his answer and Carroll's answer were contradictory of one another and it was evident those two weren't on the same page.

What's done is done. Wilson's no longer here, you and several others seem happy about that for whatever misguided reasons you have. History will tell who is right and wrong and who wins this trade. I'm of the feeling that the Seahawks will be kicking themselves when it's all said and done. Trading their franchise QB still in his prime, despite his faults that are now amplified by his doubters, for unknown commodities.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

We're in a new era now with these dynasty-destroying contracts. The team knew he'd want to re-up. They got a bunch of great players in addition to the draft picks. I just have no idea how teams like the Rams can pay out contracts like Donald's new deal and have money left for anything else.

 

[rcaido]

The "Let Russ Cook" movement began with his failure to beat Aaron Rodgers in the divisional round in 2019 despite throwing more passes and running the ball more. He was the offense since we had to bring Lynch back from retirement. He got the blame for the offense not getting it done, so the blame shift to he is being held back by his coaches.

So, we tried letting Russ cook and good defenses were intercepting his passes, several of which were throws that should not have been made. So, when "Let Russ Cook" failed against good pass defenses it was the offensive line that he blamed.

So, in 2021, he ran the new offense for one game. Game two it was back to the same route combinations and him not throwing to his underneath receivers that would get us first downs. Carroll was asked about it, said he wished Wilson would have helped us taking what was there. Instead Wilson was taking deep shots into double coverage. When asked, Wilson said, "I know how to win, and I am not changing my mindset." He couldn't really blame the line because they played much better last season than they had previously.

He does not want to play the game the way the QBs that he believes he is equal to play. He does not take what the defense gives him, which is exactly the way Brady and Rodgers play. Everything that people say about him staying in Seattle hinges on them believing what he said in public regarding the situation. The question is why do they believe him? He told our front office that he wouldn't resign with Seattle, but in public he said he wanted to be a Seahawk for life. So why believe anything he said. Half of his media campaigns have been to shift blame off of himself for his part in the teams failures.

There was no reason for Wilson to leave Seattle other than Pete not catering to the strength of their top player or they didn't want to pay him top dollar. It was either Wilson or Pete at that point, they chose Pete in hoping Wilson will kowtow and continue to play...

If they fired Pete & pay Wilson 50million, Wilson would have stayed a Seahawk for life. We would be a better team in the next 5 years compare to where we will be now. Will we win a Superbowl hard to say but we would probably continue to be a playoff team. I dont see us making the playoff with Pete as the coach unless we get lucky w/ young QB. Pete contract ends in 2025. No way they will extend a 75 year old.

Stupid mistake by the Seahawks which we will regret.

 

[toffee]

I'd also like to ask how Pete is forcing Russ into a philosophy? What philosophy are we talking here? What's been missed by the coaching staff here?

We already pretty much know that his Denver offense is going to be largely the same damn thing. Ya know why? Russ has a particular set of skills and weaknesses that don't lend themselves to versatility whatsoever. Every offense he's in will eventually funnel down into a 80% identical RW offense.

Also, you're bringing up Rodgers as an example, but his front office has been openly adversarial to him - Rodgers wasn't given the keys to the franchise. You think Rodgers drafted Jordan Love and AJ Dillon? C'mon. You think Rodgers traded Davante Adams?

Also, Green Bay is run heavy. Not sure why people miss that.

Green Bay is run heavy? didn't know that. but good to know.

 

[flv2]

I don't think there was a poll after the Adams trade but if there had been I suspect 95% here would have said the Seahawks won that trade. Star player trades are about 1 side giving up their immediate future for a promise of better things some years down the line. It's much easier to gauge for the team adding the star player. I thought both sides here got fair value, but it's really difficult to guesstimate what the Seahawks might do going forward.

 

[Jerhawk]

Green Bay is run heavy? didn't know that. but good to know.

I did the research here and it shows the Packers ran 446 designed running plays and 626 designed passing plays. That's a 58.4% to 41.6% difference. I'm not sure where that falls in the league averages, but interesting nonetheless.

Compare that to the Seahawks last season, where they ran 413 designed running plays and 541 designed passing plays, broken down as 43.29% run vs 56.71% pass.

The Seahawks also ran 118 less offensive plays than the Packers last season.

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[Maelstrom787]

I did the research here and it shows the Packers ran 446 designed running plays and 626 designed passing plays. That's a 58.4% to 41.6% difference. I'm not sure where that falls in the league averages, but interesting nonetheless.

Compare that to the Seahawks last season, where they ran 413 designed running plays and 541 designed passing plays, broken down as 43.29% run vs 56.71% pass.

The Seahawks also ran 118 less offensive plays than the Packers last season.

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I should clarify that by rush heavy, I mean heavier than average. Not Ravens level or anything, but they're top 16 two years running, even with Aaron Rodgers. When looking at neutral situation data, Green Bay continues to be more run-centric than the average team.

People bring up Aaron doing better once McCarthy got canned and LaFleur got brought in a lot. LaFluer immediately took them from the pass heaviest team in the league, drafted for a rushing attack, and leaned on the rushing attack. Instant improvement.

I don't think the grass will be greener whatsoever for Russ if Hackett abandons that idea. The same that Pete cherishes.

 

[rcaido]

I did the research here and it shows the Packers ran 446 designed running plays and 626 designed passing plays. That's a 58.4% to 41.6% difference. I'm not sure where that falls in the league averages, but interesting nonetheless.

Compare that to the Seahawks last season, where they ran 413 designed running plays and 541 designed passing plays, broken down as 43.29% run vs 56.71% pass.

The Seahawks also ran 118 less offensive plays than the Packers last season.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

Packers were rank 17 in running plays last season. Despite having one of the best RB in the NFL.

 

[IndyHawk]

He didn't want to keep playing under Carroll's conservative scheme. He would've played the rest of his career with the Seahawks had they adapted an offense that better suited his skill set. He has no ill content towards this city or franchise.

As for the rest of the history lesson, I'm well aware of what went down. I'm just as invested in this team as you and everyone else here.

It was a mystery why they changed their offense halfway through the Titans game last season. And then they asked Wilson what went wrong and his answer and Carroll's answer were contradictory of one another and it was evident those two weren't on the same page.

What's done is done. Wilson's no longer here, you and several others seem happy about that for whatever misguided reasons you have. History will tell who is right and wrong and who wins this trade. I'm of the feeling that the Seahawks will be kicking themselves when it's all said and done. Trading their franchise QB still in his prime, despite his faults that are now amplified by his doubters, for unknown commodities.

Jerhawk..Misguided reasons?Really?We had 10 seasons of good reasons.
When his legs were gone he went south,it's not really hard to see that
was his ticket and it's been punched.
It's your opinion otherwise but I feel like your being misguided somehow.

 

[IndyHawk]

I should clarify that by rush heavy, I mean heavier than average. Not Ravens level or anything, but they're top 16 two years running, even with Aaron Rodgers. When looking at neutral situation data, Green Bay continues to be more run-centric than the average team.

People bring up Aaron doing better once McCarthy got canned and LaFleur got brought in a lot. LaFluer immediately took them from the pass heaviest team in the league, drafted for a rushing attack, and leaned on the rushing attack. Instant improvement.

I don't think the grass will be greener whatsoever for Russ if Hackett abandons that idea. The same that Pete cherishes.

When you have a QB that has way more game between the lines who takes
what the D gives unlike Russ,you can cook like AR.
He also had the number 1 WR in the NFL.I don't like the guy but him and Brady
are so far ahead of Russ it's an insult to bring his name into their mix.
It all goes back to taking what the D is giving and making the change at line if
needed.

 

[Jerhawk]

Jerhawk..Misguided reasons?Really?We had 10 seasons of good reasons.
When his legs were gone he went south,it's not really hard to see that
was his ticket and it's been punched.
It's your opinion otherwise but I feel like your being misguided somehow.

We'll see. It's not my opinion though, the stats clearly back up Wilson as being a top 10, arguably top 5 QB.

Hey I hope I'm wrong and Wilson struggles this season to help the Seahawks get a better pick, but c'mon you guys. You really think we're better off without Wilson?