Clint Hurtt Wipes His Ass with the "Yes Man" Theory

[Maelstrom787]

Man, rough day for the "Pete Carroll is a dictator, but very talented people continue to willingly join his staff" crowd. Noted badass Clint Hurtt wipes his ass with their theories below.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1494457135450959877[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/1494477611954806790[/tweet]

 

[RobDaHawk]

Not to be on either side of this debate since I don't really care either way, but food for thought on this.

When I read what you linked there from Clint talking (which I appreciate BTW).....it sounds to me that he's almost putting it as past tense when talking about the issue of not having full control. As if he were given full control as of him coming in, but previously it may not have been that free in structure for the past DC's.......now I could be totally off, who knows, that's just how I interpreted it as I read it.

 

[John63]

It only puts it to rest for this upcoming year and only if it happens.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not to be on either side of this debate since I don't really care either way, but food for thought on this.

When I read what you linked there from Clint talking (which I appreciate BTW).....it sounds to me that he's almost putting it as past tense when talking about the issue of not having full control. As if he were given full control as of him coming in, but previously it may not have been that free in structure for the past DC's.......now I could be totally off, who knows, that's just how I interpreted it as I read it.

Oh, it absolutely was never full control. It never will be. The head coach would be pretty damned worthless otherwise.

Still, a pervasive narrative of his "meddling" continues to persist despite having very little other than increasingly ridiculous conjecture to back it up. Hurtt takes it down with some pretty direct talk here.

 

[JayhawkMike]

It’s all words until it happens. If our defense looks like the last 4 years of failure we will know the words were bullshit.

Here’s to hoping though.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It’s all words until it happens. If our defense looks like the last 4 years of failure we will know the words were bullshit.

Here’s to hoping though.

I think success is a separate thing altogether.

I think they've changed quite a bit over the past two seasons especially. It just hasn't always resulted in wins or results - hence the new guys being brought in to continue to steer the ship into new waters.

I'd be right there with ya if they had hired someone like Bradley to try to go back to the ol' cover-3, for instance. I genuinely think Pete has been on board with a new vision for the past couple of years, though. That's why we've been seeing more cover-2, new types of guys in the defensive backfield, and the bear front/3-4 adjacent fronts.

 

[John63]

Not to be on either side of this debate since I don't really care either way, but food for thought on this.

When I read what you linked there from Clint talking (which I appreciate BTW).....it sounds to me that he's almost putting it as past tense when talking about the issue of not having full control. As if he were given full control as of him coming in, but previously it may not have been that free in structure for the past DC's.......now I could be totally off, who knows, that's just how I interpreted it as I read it.

Oh, it absolutely was never full control. It never will be. The head coach would be pretty damned worthless otherwise.

Still, a pervasive narrative of his "meddling" continues to persist despite having very little other than increasingly ridiculous conjecture to back it up. Hurtt takes it down with some pretty direct talk here.

Because PC admitted it.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not to be on either side of this debate since I don't really care either way, but food for thought on this.

When I read what you linked there from Clint talking (which I appreciate BTW).....it sounds to me that he's almost putting it as past tense when talking about the issue of not having full control. As if he were given full control as of him coming in, but previously it may not have been that free in structure for the past DC's.......now I could be totally off, who knows, that's just how I interpreted it as I read it.

Oh, it absolutely was never full control. It never will be. The head coach would be pretty damned worthless otherwise.

Still, a pervasive narrative of his "meddling" continues to persist despite having very little other than increasingly ridiculous conjecture to back it up. Hurtt takes it down with some pretty direct talk here.

Because PC admitted it.

Admitted to what?

Being the head coach of the team? Shocker.

Hurtt says you're wrong. Desai agreeing to terms despite being a rising talent who was in significant demand says you're wrong. The defense continuing to evolve definitely hints at you being wrong, too.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Everyone wanted change, we got some change. Let's see how it plays out.

 

[Appyhawk]

We NEEDED change, and it appears we got some. The thing about change is it will take some time to get the chemistry of that change just right so it is working full bore, just like a new line with new members. That optimal operative mode of chemistry doesn't happen overnight, especially when it involves schematic differences. We, as fans, will need to exercise some patience in formulating any opinion of results.

 

[sutz]

We NEEDED change, and it appears we got some. The thing about change is it will take some time to get the chemistry of that change just right so it is working full bore, just like a new line with new members. That optimal operative mode of chemistry doesn't happen overnight, especially when it involves schematic differences. We, as fans, will need to exercise some patience in formulating any opinion of results.

So much this. Much like with the offense and Waldron. Last year was a disappointment for sure, but in Game 1 and again in Dec we saw glimpses of what the offense could and should be. Injuries contributed a lot to that, what with Penney missing most of the season and DK fighting a foot (ankle?) injury all year. And Waldron didn't get the additional coaching support that Hurtt will be getting.

I expect these coaching changes on both sides of the ball to have a big positive affect next season. Hopefully we don't lose too many key FAs this offseason.

 

[scutterhawk]

Not to be on either side of this debate since I don't really care either way, but food for thought on this.

When I read what you linked there from Clint talking (which I appreciate BTW).....it sounds to me that he's almost putting it as past tense when talking about the issue of not having full control. As if he were given full control as of him coming in, but previously it may not have been that free in structure for the past DC's.......now I could be totally off, who knows, that's just how I interpreted it as I read it.

Oh, it absolutely was never full control. It never will be. The head coach would be pretty damned worthless otherwise.

Still, a pervasive narrative of his "meddling" continues to persist despite having very little other than increasingly ridiculous conjecture to back it up. Hurtt takes it down with some pretty direct talk here.

Because PC admitted it.

Admitted to what?

Being the head coach of the team? Shocker.

Hurtt says you're wrong. Desai agreeing to terms despite being a rising talent who was in significant demand says you're wrong. The defense continuing to evolve definitely hints at you being wrong, too.

Yep, he'd be a pretty sh*ttty HEAD Coach if he shirked his duty as the LEAD Coach and didn't contribute his experiences that he's gathered at all his Head Coaching & Sub-Coaching stints throughout the years, eh?

 

[ivotuk]

It’s all words until it happens. If our defense looks like the last 4 years of failure we will know the words were $h!t.

Here’s to hoping though.

I heard this interview, and Pete has always given his coaches leeway. I do think that Clint is going to get more though. He said that Pete asked him to look for his staff, so Hurtt called around listening to recommendations, and the name that kept coming up was Desai.

The fact that this defense was so bad the past couple of years, proves to me that Pete was giving Norton a lot of "autonomy." Dave Wyman went back and looked at Kenny's defenses with the Raiders, and here in Seattle, and the stats were very similar. During his stint with the Raiders, head coach Jack Del Rio, (a former DC), got mad at Ken Norton and took play-calling duties away from him for a while.

IMHO, Pete gave Ken Norton too much autonomy, and held on to him much too long. Just like with Trey Flowers, Pete was trying to bring him a long, and it didn't work.

After we had no chance at the playoffs, I think Pete told Shane Waldron: "The entire Offense is all yours, Offensive Line, all of it. Let's see what you got." And we saw what he had. The addition of Penny helped, and Russell's slowly healing finger helped, but I think the initial holes and available receivers were Shane and Andy Dickerson's doing.

Again, IMHO, that's what gave Pete the confidence to let Solari go.

I think we're going to see a HUGE improvement in our defense, and it will all be because of Clint Hurtt, and his staff.

But some of you will hold on to the old argument "It's Pete's defense, and he will never change." Give the opposite opinoin a legitimate chance, and I think you'll see it differently.,

 

[John63]

The reality is we will not know about this iteration of the coaching staff till we see it. We know in the past PC has gotten way more involved than he should be and a large part to the detriment of the team.

 

[Maelstrom787]

We know in the past PC has gotten way more involved than he should be

You know an opinion for a fact? Lol.

You accept everything Pete says as fact when it suits you, and then disregard Hurtt's comments about how much autonomy he has in his own job, after working on the staff in various roles for several years.

None of it tracks. None of it is consistent.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Come on John, NONE of us, I repeat, NONE of us know how much he truly gets involved.
It's all opinions, and that's fine.

Shoot, I just want to see something different, and a better overall defense. Couldn't care less who is in charge of what, just get it done. I'll just be called a rose colored glasses homer, but I'm pretty excited about seeing what this defense will look like next year.

 

[sutz]

We all saw what happened last season. We may have taken slightly different views about where to go and what to do about it. Personally, I think a large portion of the blame does fall on the Offense for not controlling the ball better.

Having said that, the D needed help, for sure. Now, there is a certain logic behind a "bend but don't break" style of defense. Last year we took that to an extreme. We were actually not that bad of a scoring defense, considering the amount of yards we gave up. Somehow, the team needs to turn those red zone stops around and find them earlier in drives. You can't keep giving teams free rein between the 20's and expect them to keep them out of the end zone every drive.

I like what they done so far with the new coaching hires and shuffling. Hopefully the things Hurtt has been talking about come to pass on the field.

 

[scutterhawk]

The reality is we will not know about this iteration of the coaching staff till we see it. We know in the past PC has gotten way more involved than he should be and a large part to the detriment of the team.

"We all know in the past" that Pete Carroll AS THE >>>HEAD COACH<<< that his #1 PRIORITY is /was TO BE involved in every aspect & every detail.... Because that's his job.
Now ,I know that it p*$$es you off when people on here 'Dog Pile' diss' on Russell Wilson and truthfully, the amount of Wilson bashing has REALLY gotten ABSURD & you know what? the same thing can be said of all this Pete Carroll "bashing" crap. ukeface:
CLEAN UP ON 12 !

 

[Fade]

I agree that Clint Hurtt has been promoted to bring change (Fangio).

But Ken Norton was a textbook "Yes" man. Only under Pete would Ken have had a DC job, after the disaster he was with the Raiders. To the extent or how much he was, can be argued till the cows come home.

A) Pete was heavily involved with the construction and scheme on defense, and it was an abject failure over the last four years that contained stretches of worst in NFL history.

-or-

B) Pete stood by 4 years and watched Ken flop and flail around, while being cool with it.

-or-

C) A little bit of both.

Anyway you want to spin it, it falls on Pete. He failed the organization.


Ken came up under the tutelage of Pete, playing and coaching under him for over 20 years. Anyone want to hazard a guess of what system he was running? Trying to paint Norton as some autonomous individual doing things his way is absolutely hilarious. And poor, awe shucks, Pete was totally blindsided by what Ken was doing for FOUR YEARS.

Pete lovers have really twisted themselves into knots on this.

Check this. So when Ken Norton was initially hired it was met with criticism, and rightfully so. Pete lovers were like "It's okay, it's Pete's Defense, anyway." 4 years of disappointment later, they're now trying to shovel all the blame on Ken and absolve Pete. These same posters were praising Ken during this season mind you, not because they care about Ken and thought he was doing a good job, but as a way to try and big up Pete indirectly. :lol:

Pete failed, his system failed. They now have to pivot, and have gone the Fangio tree route.

 

[jammerhawk]

So is Pete to be blamed for recognizing his scheme wasn’t able to be made to work any longer?

Can’t for the life of me think of any reason why seeking to refresh the D can be seen as a negative. In the end the narrative that these new guys will all be Pete’s yes men, Hurrt has put the kibosh to that refrain. Got to believe we will also see some player personnel changes as well. I have a genuine belief that these new coaches will create a solid and progressive D. I’m sure some will say despite Pete, but he will be part of a fresh new collaboration.

I just want to see a fresh approach to playing Defence by my team b/c it wasn’t working the way it was. As Hurrt has indicated a fondness for 3-4 approaches there will need to be corresponding player moves. We will find Dr Desai is in fact a progressive innovator. This may prove interesting, but hopefully will be fun to watch.