Belicheat confirmed...Deflate-gate

[bostonhardo]

Goodall needs to not overreact. If the rulebook says $25,000 fine (not limited to it), you can't just jump to a SB suspension. If it turns out that the Patriots indeed tampered with the football AFTER (which does make a huge difference) they were approved by the officials, I would expect discipline no harsher than that of Spygate.

Concur mostly. Except that this is at least a second offense. Expect something similar to the bounty scandal the Saints were involved with. I'm not entirely comfortable with a Super Bowl suspension because a) it's a really, really quick reaction, and there should be more time and effort given to investigating this right, and b) because it would taint and alter the biggest game of the year, sending all sorts of negative ripples through the league.

I get all hot when someone uses the word "concur".

Just saying.

 

[huskylawyer]

Yes Marshawn not talking to the media gives the Seahawks a competitive advantage. If he were to talk he would have less air with which to go beast mode it is all about conservation for the game.

I feel like you are missing the point. No, you are missing the point. I was addressing that Goodell shouldn't overreact with his discipline. You said "He's the man he does what he wants!" Well, what if he wants to suspend Lynch for not talking to the media? Would your tone change then?

It wasnt me that said that but I will play along. Rodger has varied wildly in his responses to different situations. I see a very large difference between off the field antics and something that has an effect on the game in progress. I also think that as Roland from here would tell you Rodger is a mouthpiece for the owners. How many of them have been slighted or could possibly feel cheated by the Pats. During the two scandals he has probably used up all of the good will of the owners including Kraft who called him out over spygate. I wont be suprised if it is much harsher than most expect.

I wouldn't be surprised either. The guy is about as predictable as the bounce of a football. I'm just saying what he shouldn't do. A harsh punishment should be levied if it can be proved the Patriots altered their own balls after the officials inspected them. But not to the level that they were punished for Spygate, in my opinion

Goodell HATES repeat offenders, and now, past Ray Rice, he is much more inclined to let the Twitter Mob decide (and that mob is out for blood).

I think BB is suspended next year quite honestly and if Brady knew about it, 4 games. I personally might think it is over-the-top, but Goodell has already shown that he'll follow mob justice (See AD, Rice, etc.).

 

[chris98251]

Kraft is Goodells buddy, the media and NFL are in full spin mode, the more they can spread it around that balls are scuffed and handled by other teams the more this will be defused.

He's still a lieing cheat along with the rest of the team, they know, I played receiver and DB and you can tell by grabbing a ball with the amount of give it has.

 

[GoPatsSB49]

Goodell HATES repeat offenders, and now, past Ray Rice, he is much more inclined to let the Twitter Mob decide (and that mob is out for blood).

I think BB is suspended next year quite honestly and if Brady knew about it, 4 games. I personally might think it is over-the-top, but Goodell has already shown that he'll follow mob justice (See AD, Rice, etc.).

See my analogy about the DUI and speeding. Both are breaking the law, but you have to be at least a little bit reasonable about it despite being a repeat offender. But as you said, reasonability is not something Goodell specializes in

 

[GoPatsSB49]

Kraft is Goodells buddy, the media and NFL are in full spin mode, the more they can spread it around that balls are scuffed and handled by other teams the more this will be defused.

He's still a lieing cheat along with the rest of the team, they know, I played receiver and DB and you can tell by grabbing a ball with the amount of give it has.

The bad news for the Seahawks is, after the divisional round and AFCCG for the Patriots, teams are running low on cheating accusations and excuses. If the Patriots end up winning it, I'm not sure what else people will come up with to discredit the team. Maybe the offensive linemen have sand spurs on their shoulder pads to deter defensive ends from making contact with them. :sarcasm_off:

 

[bostonhardo]

Kraft is Goodells buddy, the media and NFL are in full spin mode, the more they can spread it around that balls are scuffed and handled by other teams the more this will be defused.

He's still a lieing cheat along with the rest of the team, they know, I played receiver and DB and you can tell by grabbing a ball with the amount of give it has.

Errrrrr....... if it is so obvious why didn't the refs pick up on it?


I bet you were a POP Warner terror!!

HaHa!

 

[RolandDeschain]

Just curious what do you Hawk fans think the NFL should do to the Pats.

I think it's impossible to give an opinion on this before all the facts are known. If Belichick truly didn't know and it was a rogue operation, that's way different than Belichick knowing and purposely letting it happen, for instance...And Brady is not without blame here, there's NO WAY he didn't know the balls were under-inflated while passing all game long when a Colts DB noticed it after one interception.

But, we need a lot more information.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Goodall needs to not overreact. If the rulebook says $25,000 fine (not limited to it), you can't just jump to a SB suspension. If it turns out that the Patriots indeed tampered with the football AFTER (which does make a huge difference) they were approved by the officials, I would expect discipline no harsher than that of Spygate.

Concur mostly. Except that this is at least a second offense. Expect something similar to the bounty scandal the Saints were involved with. I'm not entirely comfortable with a Super Bowl suspension because a) it's a really, really quick reaction, and there should be more time and effort given to investigating this right, and b) because it would taint and alter the biggest game of the year, sending all sorts of negative ripples through the league.

Right, it being a second offense is precisely why it should be no more than the $750,000 fine and first round pick loss. If it turns out to be a $500,000 fine and 2nd round pick loss then cool, whatever. You can't penalize someone for DUI with 2 years of prison and a $50,000 fine and then 7 years later when they do 15 over the speed limit, give them 4 years of prison time and a $200,000 fine. They were both instances of cheating, but this one is being blown way out of proportion (much mores than Spygate, but I've run that argument a trillion times and nobody's mind ever changes)

I think your drunk driving analogy is off. Yes, they are both bad decisions, but driving drunk is a lapse of judgement compounded by impairment. Something that the guy should have known better than to do, but not done as a calculated move to gain advantage in a situation. Cheating on a test in school is more applicable. In both instances they are cheating to gain a competitive advantage, it can't always or reliably be determined how long the behavior has been going on if any more than a one-time occurrence, and in both cases there is at least some sort of competition with others in the same situation.

As far as punishments go, Bounty-Gate was a first time offense, and the Saints received the following punishments, (via Wikipedia):

Williams was suspended indefinitely, and was banned from applying for reinstatement until the end of the 2012 season at the earliest.

Payton was suspended for the entire 2012 season, effective April 1. He is the first head coach in modern NFL history to be suspended for any reason.

Loomis was suspended for the first eight games of the 2012 season.

Vitt, who had been tabbed as a possible candidate to serve as interim coach in Payton's absence, was suspended for the first six games of the 2012 season. (This did not automatically disqualify Vitt from serving as interim head coach per se, as his suspension was not effective until the regular season; the suspension terms allowed him to coach the team through training camp and the preseason, then return during Week 7. The Saints announced they would implement this scenario for 2012.)

The Saints were also fined $500,000—the maximum fine permitted under the league constitution. Goodell also stripped the Saints of their second-round draft picks in 2012 and 2013 (their first-round pick in 2012 had already been traded to the New England Patriots, and therefore could not be taken away; after the penalty; the Saints' first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft is a third-rounder)

Vilma was suspended for the entire 2012 NFL season.

Former Saints defensive tackle Anthony Hargrove was suspended for eight games.

Saints defensive end Will Smith was suspended for four games.

Former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita (then with the Cleveland Browns, now retired) was suspended for three games.

As both coaches and players who were implicated in the scandal were affected, it seems likely the same would apply to the Patriots. So precedence says that if Goodell is consistent in his dealings (heh!), the Patriots are looking at something along the lines of:

Belichick suspended for the entire 2015 season.

Any assistant coaches implicated suspended for at least part of the season.

Patriots fined $500,000 and stripped of one or two high-round draft picks.

Quarterback, running back, center, and possibly receiver(s) facing game suspensions.

And that's just going off the first-time offense punishments of Bounty-Gate. But this is a second offense, which means those punishments would be the base minimum, and actual punishments would be worse.

 

[Bprez3]

https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/5 ... 5462408192

NFL denying the rumor.

It doesn't matter if he is on the sideline or not. The Blue Wave is on a roll

 

[Anonymous]

Just curious what do you Hawk fans think the NFL should do to the Pats.

...And Brady is not without blame here, there's NO WAY he didn't know the balls were under-inflated while passing all game long when a Colts DB noticed it after one interception.

But, we need a lot more information.

I was going to mention this same exact thing. There is no way that Brady didn't know they were under-inflated. To say he was clueless to the fact is extremely naive.

 

[Geologic]

This Onion article explains what I think on the subject.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation ... thi,37819/

 

[Pats fan1]

Goodall needs to not overreact. If the rulebook says $25,000 fine (not limited to it), you can't just jump to a SB suspension. If it turns out that the Patriots indeed tampered with the football AFTER (which does make a huge difference) they were approved by the officials, I would expect discipline no harsher than that of Spygate.

Concur mostly. Except that this is at least a second offense. Expect something similar to the bounty scandal the Saints were involved with. I'm not entirely comfortable with a Super Bowl suspension because a) it's a really, really quick reaction, and there should be more time and effort given to investigating this right, and b) because it would taint and alter the biggest game of the year, sending all sorts of negative ripples through the league.

Right, it being a second offense is precisely why it should be no more than the $750,000 fine and first round pick loss. If it turns out to be a $500,000 fine and 2nd round pick loss then cool, whatever. You can't penalize someone for DUI with 2 years of prison and a $50,000 fine and then 7 years later when they do 15 over the speed limit, give them 4 years of prison time and a $200,000 fine. They were both instances of cheating, but this one is being blown way out of proportion (much mores than Spygate, but I've run that argument a trillion times and nobody's mind ever changes)

I think your drunk driving analogy is off. Yes, they are both bad decisions, but driving drunk is a lapse of judgement compounded by impairment. Something that the guy should have known better than to do, but not done as a calculated move to gain advantage in a situation. Cheating on a test in school is more applicable. In both instances they are cheating to gain a competitive advantage, it can't always or reliably be determined how long the behavior has been going on if any more than a one-time occurrence, and in both cases there is at least some sort of competition with others in the same situation.

As far as punishments go, Bounty-Gate was a first time offense, and the Saints received the following punishments, (via Wikipedia):

Williams was suspended indefinitely, and was banned from applying for reinstatement until the end of the 2012 season at the earliest.

Payton was suspended for the entire 2012 season, effective April 1. He is the first head coach in modern NFL history to be suspended for any reason.

Loomis was suspended for the first eight games of the 2012 season.

Vitt, who had been tabbed as a possible candidate to serve as interim coach in Payton's absence, was suspended for the first six games of the 2012 season. (This did not automatically disqualify Vitt from serving as interim head coach per se, as his suspension was not effective until the regular season; the suspension terms allowed him to coach the team through training camp and the preseason, then return during Week 7. The Saints announced they would implement this scenario for 2012.)

The Saints were also fined $500,000—the maximum fine permitted under the league constitution. Goodell also stripped the Saints of their second-round draft picks in 2012 and 2013 (their first-round pick in 2012 had already been traded to the New England Patriots, and therefore could not be taken away; after the penalty; the Saints' first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft is a third-rounder)

Vilma was suspended for the entire 2012 NFL season.

Former Saints defensive tackle Anthony Hargrove was suspended for eight games.

Saints defensive end Will Smith was suspended for four games.

Former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita (then with the Cleveland Browns, now retired) was suspended for three games.

As both coaches and players who were implicated in the scandal were affected, it seems likely the same would apply to the Patriots. So precedence says that if Goodell is consistent in his dealings (heh!), the Patriots are looking at something along the lines of:

Belichick suspended for the entire 2015 season.

Any assistant coaches implicated suspended for at least part of the season.

Patriots fined $500,000 and stripped of one or two high-round draft picks.

Quarterback, running back, center, and possibly receiver(s) facing game suspensions.

And that's just going off the first-time offense punishments of Bounty-Gate. But this is a second offense, which means those punishments would be the base minimum, and actual punishments would be worse.

Actually since this is the first time the Pats got caught deflating the footballs it should not lead to a season long suspension.

Now if the Pats got caught again illegally video taping then that would warrant a season long suspension or lifetime ban.

The NFL and many organizations handle things on a individual case by case basis. Certain violations are dealt with differently.

 

[huskylawyer]

Actually since this is the first time the Pats got caught deflating the footballs it should not lead to a season long suspension.

Now if the Pats got caught again illegally video taping then that would warrant a season long suspension or lifetime ban.

The NFL and many organizations handle things on a individual case by case basis. Certain violations are dealt with differently.

I think it is a fair assumption that this is not a "it is only one game" type of thing. There are already reports that teams suspected something was up prior to this game (including Indy). Just being a rationale person with some common sense, it isn't really a reach to think the Pats have been doing this for awhile.

And interesting post re: how Patriots passing game IMPROVES in cold weather, whereas every team they play goes down. Obviously, there are correlation v causation arguments, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[bmorepunk]

Just curious what do you Hawk fans think the NFL should do to the Pats.

I think it's impossible to give an opinion on this before all the facts are known. If Belichick truly didn't know and it was a rogue operation, that's way different than Belichick knowing and purposely letting it happen, for instance...And Brady is not without blame here, there's NO WAY he didn't know the balls were under-inflated while passing all game long when a Colts DB noticed it after one interception.

But, we need a lot more information.

Belichick is smart enough to put himself far enough away from this had he actually had knowledge. They won't be able to link it to him nor anyone else important.

 

[hawknation2015]

Actually since this is the first time the Pats got caught deflating the footballs it should not lead to a season long suspension.

Now if the Pats got caught again illegally video taping then that would warrant a season long suspension or lifetime ban.

The NFL and many organizations handle things on a individual case by case basis. Certain violations are dealt with differently.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12205404

This is stunning to see players react to the difference.

I am amazed at the difference after watching this video. We can see why the Pats wanted balls with lower pressure. If proven that they intentionally reduced the pressure, the sanctions ought to be very severe.
Because of the history of the Pats and their present coach cheating in the past, the sanctions ...in my opinion....ought to include an extended time away from the game.

 

[RyPants]

Yawn. Next story, please.

Isn't there a football game happening in a little over a week?

 

[BocciHawk]

Yeah, the "responses" from the Patriot faithful just seem to indicate that they haven't been doing any reading.

It's pretty clear that the officials checked the balls before the game and released them to the ballboys from the two teams to be taken to the sidelines.

It's pretty clear that the officials were notified during the first half that the Colts believed the Patriots were using under inflated balls.

They decided to check all the balls at half time, 11 of the 12 Patriot balls were underinflated by 2 lbs. The 12th ball and the Colts balls were all fine.

(That and basic math indicates this isn't a weather issue or temperature thing, also can't be defective balls.)

The officials notified the league, re inflated the balls to the correct pressure, and continued the game. It's believed that this was what the league told them to do, as opposed to taking any other action... the only other thing they possibly could have done at the time would be to have declared it a Patriot forfeit.

The Colts have made this allegation before, in November, against the Patriots. The Ravens players also believe that under inflated balls were used in the previous game -- which the Patriots only won by four points.

Now, this part is speculation, but interesting. The Patriots showed a dramatic improvement in fewer drops by receivers from last year to this year... and they had very few running back fumbles as well... and very few QB snap fumbles... the statistics suggest that the cheating might have been going on all year, perhaps even both home and away.

Finally it's very clear both that Brady likes under inflated balls, and that he would have been able to tell the difference. So the idea that there was some strange "Bermuda Ball Bag" that magically and oddly changed the balls to the way Brady likes them... that's just hysterical. Both Brady and the head coach are control freaks, and have a history of cheating and lying about it... this is not going to go away, and the NFL is kind of screwed. If they punish the Patriots before the Super Bowl, it'll taint the game... but god forbid the Patriots win the Super Bowl and then the NFL punishes them...

 

[Jacknut16]

If you are a QB with small Keebler Elf hands then obviously an underinflated ball helps with the grip, but both Luck & Brady are big guys with large hands. Don't really se how this would benefit strictly the Pats.

Besides, aren't the ball boys employed by the NFL and not by the team?

It was never about throwing.

It was about catching. It is easier to catch a soft ball in cold conditions.

No way, its much easier to throw a wet ball that is under inflated. Its a HUGE advantage. You have control of the ball longer on your hand and finger tips, the ball doesnt slip around the palm as much.

This is a really big deal folks.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

Yawn. Next story, please.

Isn't there a football game happening in a little over a week?

Ho.. Shit... Another Rip Van Winkle just woke up!