ADB gets real (KJ podcast)

[FattyKnuckle]

Holy Catfish, these get deeper as they go.

This is a must watch.

No spoilers from me, and you have to listen between the lines.
Every time he has one of the guys on we get a better understanding of what actually was happening.

it’s a tad long, but do yourself a favor.
I promise you won’t be disappointed.

The 30 on 30 episode (or whatever sporting doc series does it) about that era is going to be eye opening crazy. Might be better for it to wait until Pete and ME3 retire to have the whole picture on how the fallout from the call ultimately affected all the participants. Thanks for the link, I'll listen to it later today.

 

[AgentDib]

These really are good and remove the need for a 30 for 30 IMO. The "someone" is definitely Russ, but there is an interesting discussion surrounding the decision of the coaching staff to coddle the franchise QB at the expense of team chemistry. We did win a lot of games with Russ over that 2015-2019 span, and coaches have never treated everybody equally in the history of sporting events.

Here's a brief summary from watching all of KJ's and Sherm's interviews:
- The offense and defense used to be hyper competitive in practices, culminating in Sherman's "You f'n suck" taunt to Wilson after getting a pick in practice
- Carroll initiated separate meetings for offensive leaders (Doug + ?) and defensive leaders (KJ, Kam, Earl, Bobby + ?) telling them to take it a step down. Interpreted as shielding Russ.
- The coaching staff wasn't critical enough of Russ's mistakes to suit the other players despite Russ being paid a lot more
- Russ preferred to keep his distance, ie. Lynch told Sherman he probably wouldn't call Russ these days because he didn't want to go through Russ's manager first

 

[Ozzy]

These really are good and remove the need for a 30 for 30 IMO. The "someone" is definitely Russ, but there is an interesting discussion surrounding the decision of the coaching staff to coddle the franchise QB at the expense of team chemistry. We did win a lot of games with Russ over that 2015-2019 span, and coaches have never treated everybody equally in the history of sporting events.

Here's a brief summary from watching all of KJ's and Sherm's interviews:
- The offense and defense used to be hyper competitive in practices, culminating in Sherman's "You f'n suck" taunt to Wilson after getting a pick in practice
- Carroll initiated separate meetings for offensive leaders (Doug + ?) and defensive leaders (KJ, Kam, Earl, Bobby + ?) telling them to take it a step down. Interpreted as shielding Russ.
- The coaching staff wasn't critical enough of Russ's mistakes to suit the other players despite Russ being paid a lot more
- Russ preferred to keep his distance, ie. Lynch told Sherman he probably wouldn't call Russ these days because he didn't want to go through Russ's manager first

A little misleading lol. Lynch also had high praise for Wilson and called him one of the toughest football players ever who he loves like a brother. Obviously they're two wildly different personalities so its not a shock they're not super close as friends but the mutual respect was massive. Sherman tried to get Lynch to crap on Wilson and he wouldn't do it, to Lynch's credit.....he's a stand up guy.

 

[hoxrox]

It's obvious they were talking about Russ. The San Diego game wasn't the only time ADB wasn't happy with Russ.

 

[FlyingGunHawk]

Is anyone surprised? The QB position is the most protected, coddled and pampered position in all professional sports. What makes it even worse is it's not equal among all the QB's, either. It's selective. The media also inflames the situation too.

Does anyone else notice the media does this weird thing with their headlines to promote games they cover? Particularly ones that garner some hype.

A simple example would be: "The Vikings take on the Chiefs on MNF." Or something along those lines. Simple and straightforward.

In reality, it will usually say something like: "Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs take on the Kirk Cousins and the Vikings on MNF."

Th QB always comes first. No matter what. It does feel a little disrespectful to the rest of the players IMO but that's what we got. I may be reading too much into it. The players are grown men and professionals. Maybe it doesn't bother them. Maybe it does. Why ESPN, ABC, FOX, and NFL Network speak in these terms I'm not sure. Maybe because it's easy to understand and follow and the easiest way to promote anything is to have a name attached to it. A name can create a storyline.

I listen to Rich Eisen quite often on his podcast and he does this all the time.

 

[keasley45]

Is anyone surprised? The QB position is the most protected, coddled and pampered position in all professional sports. What makes it even worse is it's not equal among all the QB's, either. It's selective. The media also inflames the situation too.

Does anyone else notice the media does this weird thing with their headlines to promote games they cover? Particularly ones that garner some hype.

A simple example would be: "The Vikings take on the Chiefs on MNF." Or something along those lines. Simple and straightforward.

In reality, it will usually say something like: "Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs take on the Kirk Cousins and the Vikings on MNF."

Th QB always comes first. No matter what. It does feel a little disrespectful to the rest of the players IMO but that's what we got. I may be reading too much into it. The players are grown men and professionals. Maybe it doesn't bother them. Maybe it does. Why ESPN, ABC, FOX, and NFL Network speak in these terms I'm not sure. Maybe because it's easy to understand and follow and the easiest way to promote anything is to have a name attached to it. A name can create a storyline.

I listen to Rich Eisen quite often on his podcast and he does this all the time.

i dont think its that. If the QB is playing well, he should get the recognition. He is the cog that makes everything go. Its when a player at ny position is playing poorly and instead of getting the tear down like everyone else does, is given a pass and makes the same mistakes over and over again.

its like Doug said, and he was being fair. If you make a mistake in practice on tuesday, thats fine. its what practice is for. If you do it again on Thursday, it needs to get cleaned up, but ok. If you do the smae mistake again on friday during walk throughs and then again on Sunday (and over and over again) in the games when it matters, while the other 21 guys are held to a standard of excellence and push to be the best and do their jobs... thats something completely different. And when those failures are brushed away and isntead of being called out and addressed because they affect everyone else's performance are swept under the rug and instead, highlights shown of the flawed player 'saving the day' and getting accolades?

That is not what happens with Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, or any other bonafide leader of a team. They set the standard for performance and excellence like Doug, Sherm, and the others did on our champiosnhip squads. Its apparent that the one guy on the 22 not doing what he should have been was 3. And he was permitted to do so.

Which again, is why Wilsons remarks upon leaving here abot having to carry the team... Just low, man. Loowwww. Deluted. Narcisistic.. whatever clinical term you want to apply.

What happened here was not just the preferencial treatment given to a player and others being jealous. Russ's substandard play warranted addressing because it was holding the team back and instead, he was held up in the same light as a Brady, Brees or Manning. He was never in that class. He was just given the stage te play the role.

 

[AgentDib]

A little misleading lol. Lynch also had high praise for Wilson and called him one of the toughest football players ever who he loves like a brother. Obviously they're two wildly different personalities so its not a shock they're not super close as friends but the mutual respect was massive. Sherman tried to get Lynch to crap on Wilson and he wouldn't do it, to Lynch's credit.....he's a stand up guy.

You're obviously welcome to a different interpretation too.

Here's the link if anybody wants to form their own opinion. 18:00 mark is Lynch discussing Wilson.

 

[keasley45]

A little misleading lol. Lynch also had high praise for Wilson and called him one of the toughest football players ever who he loves like a brother. Obviously they're two wildly different personalities so its not a shock they're not super close as friends but the mutual respect was massive. Sherman tried to get Lynch to crap on Wilson and he wouldn't do it, to Lynch's credit.....he's a stand up guy.

Lynch pretty plain expressed that the 'soup' wasn't right in Seattle when they were talking about the divide. The soup he's referring to is the culture. The root - the fact that it wqs tainted by not maintaining accountability.

Lynch also said he was rooting against Wilson in Seattle after he left and had to swallow his resentment when he came back.

But then, being the compassionate dude he and because he himself was ostracized in the league once, felt the need to reach out to Wilson because everything that was swirling around him. That's sympathy and being the bigger man.

And then he goes on to say 'F that' about reaching out to Wilson because if Russ doesn't have the decency to pick up the phone himself... then F it.

Zero in what Lynch said rings in support of Russ. Less than zero.

 

[knownone]

It's crazy how immature some of these guys were/are. If your head coach protects the QB (or any player), there's a good reason: he believes it's best for the team. Agree or disagree, it's your job as a player to fall in line. If they did that, it would be fair to say—in hindsight—Pete's handling of Russ is why the team failed.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Many of these guys threw visible temper tantrums on the field and stated their grievances publicly. They helped deteriorate the culture because they couldn't get over themselves. That's not strictly a Pete and Russ issue. That's an everyone issue.

 

[QWERTY]

Plot twist.

Maybe Pete didn't discipline Russ, and gave him all the glory and praise, and then traded him to Denver for the hull picks?

 

[chris98251]

It's crazy how immature some of these guys were/are. If your head coach protects the QB (or any player), there's a good reason: he believes it's best for the team. Agree or disagree, it's your job as a player to fall in line. If they did that, it would be fair to say—in hindsight—Pete's handling of Russ is why the team failed.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Many of these guys threw visible temper tantrums on the field and stated their grievances publicly. They helped deteriorate the culture because they couldn't get over themselves. That's not strictly a Pete and Russ issue. That's an everyone issue.

Be a child and watch one of your siblings never get into trouble, get ice cream, toys, and praised all the time. Watch that same child take credit for what the others do, be the other children and expect to do chores and work to uphold all family values. Getting in trouble if they slip up. Not saying Wilson did not put in time and work, but he was never held accountable for straying from family values and rules. He was never held accountable for his errors. That's what pisses off the other team mates he has. That and his phoniness' everyone seen.

 

[rcaido]

Very nice and very human emotion interview. Doug seem to gravitate more to people who helps him in a personal level rather than professional level. A lot of what he was saying was emotions but a bit bias. He also have a bit of an ego which im sure he used that to fuel his amazing career.

The whole Chargers game was extremely hot. LOB could not defend the short pass and they pretty much killed them with a thousand cuts and at the redzone Antonio Gates was unstoppable. I look back and there was no three in a row 3in outs. There was one in 2nd quarter and then 3rd quarter. Charges had the ball for 40+minutes. First half they had field goal, td, field goal, & TD.

It's crazy how immature some of these guys were/are. If your head coach protects the QB (or any player), there's a good reason: he believes it's best for the team. Agree or disagree, it's your job as a player to fall in line. If they did that, it would be fair to say—in hindsight—Pete's handling of Russ is why the team failed.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Many of these guys threw visible temper tantrums on the field and stated their grievances publicly. They helped deteriorate the culture because they couldn't get over themselves. That's not strictly a Pete and Russ issue. That's an everyone issue.

KJ had an interesting point in the 6:06 mark. He pretty much said, as soon as they won the superbowl teammates started nitpicking about stuff, not having enough attention, who had the most attention, how much is who is getting paid...they lost focus in actually having fun and winning. That's what i think killed the culture is that they played as a team but when they won, they played for themselves after that. This isn't just Russ, this was pretty much every player.

 

[knownone]

Be a child and watch one of your siblings never get into trouble, get ice cream, toys, and praised all the time. Watch that same child take credit for what the others do, be the other children and expect to do chores and work to uphold all family values. Getting in trouble if they slip up. Not saying Wilson did not put in time and work, but he was never held accountable for straying from family values and rules. He was never held accountable for his errors. That's what pisses off the other team mates he has. That and his phoniness' everyone seen.

I get where you are coming from.

These aren't children. Pete isn't their parent. He's their employer. If he believes handling Russ a certain way is best for the team, then the rest of the team needs to respect his judgment. Otherwise, they are undermining their head coach because they disagree with him. And, no disrespect to guys like Sherman, Lynch, or Baldwin, I have a hard time imagining that they knew what was best for the team in their mid-20s.

So, while I agree with you on why they might feel a certain way, I don't believe their actions or grievances are devoid of consequence. They are at equal fault (or worse) for why the team fell apart because they couldn't put their egos/beliefs aside for the betterment of the group.

 

[LeveeBreak]

Geno has commented about how much he learned from Russ. I bet it wasn't just X's & O's. I'm thinking he learned a lot about what not to do when you are a leader and play the most important position in all of sports. I'm sure Geno did learn skills and other beneficial stuff...but how he carries himself is the anti-russ.

Thankfully the donks had a new ownership team looking to make a splash on a franchise QB and gave us a fortune to unload a cancer to them. P&J get big time credit IMO for navigating that ending.

 

[keasley45]

I get where you are coming from.

These aren't children. Pete isn't their parent. He's their employer. If he believes handling Russ a certain way is best for the team, then the rest of the team needs to respect his judgment. Otherwise, they are undermining their head coach because they disagree with him. And, no disrespect to guys like Sherman, Lynch, or Baldwin, I have a hard time imagining that they knew what was best for the team in their mid-20s.

So, while I agree with you on why they might feel a certain way, I don't believe their actions or grievances are devoid of consequence. They are at equal fault (or worse) for why the team fell apart because they couldn't put their egos/beliefs aside for the betterment of the group.

It is not possible to expect high performance and accountability .. demand it from some, while others are permitted to just eek by on the shoulders of their teammates. Ive run design shops and played organized sports most of my life. You can NEVER expect success if you have a tilted playing field. It breeds resentment, animosity, mistrust and indifference. And that has zero to do with being a crybaby. The players were right to leave and be resentful. Pete royaly F'd that up. For all of his brilliance and insight into what makes people tick, he completely lost site of the whole, and catered to the one. And what happened in the end? the team was no longer a team. It was a bunch of guys who played passionaless ball, went through the motions, and the Hawks became Russ's personal highlight real and portfolio for Canton. It wanst team ball. It wasnt balanced football. It wasnt even good offense. It was a QB who was runnng what he wanted, how he wanted, and without any checks or balances.

Pete built the thing and then presided over its slow decline. All because of whatver hang up he had in trying to have whatever it was he was trying to create between himself and Russ.

Its enlightening, and also incredibly frustrating. And im honestly more disappointed in Pete than anyone.

 

[rcaido]

It is not possible to expect high performance and accountability .. demand it from some, while others are permitted to just eek by on the shoulders of their teammates. Ive run design shops and played organized sports most of my life. You can NEVER expect success if you have a tilted playing field. It breeds resentment, animosity, mistrust and indifference. And that has zero to do with being a crybaby. The players were right to leave and be resentful. Pete royaly F'd that up. For all of his brilliance and insight into what makes people tick, he completely lost site of the whole, and catered to the one. And what happened in the end? the team was no longer a team. It was a bunch of guys who played passionaless ball, went through the motions, and the Hawks became Russ's personal highlight real and portfolio for Canton. It wanst team ball. It wasnt balanced football. It wasnt even good offense. It was a QB who was runnng what he wanted, how he wanted, and without any checks or balances.

Pete built the thing and then presided over its slow decline. All because of whatver hang up he had in trying to have whatever it was he was trying to create between himself and Russ.

Its enlightening, and also incredibly frustrating. And im honestly more disappointed in Pete than anyone.

Yet they were the second most winning team during that decade, just behind the Patriots.

 

[renofox]

Its enlightening, and also incredibly frustrating. And im honestly more disappointed in Pete than anyone.

Agreed. PC is supposedly a master of Organizational Culture (as it was called in the '80s when I studied it, may be called something else now).

Based on what I'm hearing he should have seen what was going on (it was obvious and widespread) and addressed the issue and tried whatever different strategies until it was resolved.

Either he didn't see it, or he was ineffective.

Either way, disappointing.

 

[IndyHawk]

Angry discussed the 2nd SB and said he was open every play and
kicking the defenders ass yet only had 2 targets..
It still bothers him even today-You can see it in his eyes(love the guy)
Then you get to the last play...Oh man another no target!

Loved how he explained winning was everything not the money
When he saw the culture change from winning then he started
to question what was he killing himself out there for?

Now I really want Me3 to suffer more losing and decline of his game!

 

[Mad Dog]

I think it's quite clear that Pete recognized Wilson needed kid gloves to get the best from him and that a tough love strategy was only going to erode confidence in the one player that needs to be confident. Other players read it as coddling which is what it would look like. But as someone that spent decades teaching med students and residents, you have to know which ones respond to encouragement and which ones respond to shame based approaches.

I think as these guys age and interact with more people than just alpha dog athletes, they'll learn the nuances to reaching people.

 

[toffee]

i dont think its that. If the QB is playing well, he should get the recognition. He is the cog that makes everything go. Its when a player at ny position is playing poorly and instead of getting the tear down like everyone else does, is given a pass and makes the same mistakes over and over again.

its like Doug said, and he was being fair. If you make a mistake in practice on tuesday, thats fine. its what practice is for. If you do it again on Thursday, it needs to get cleaned up, but ok. If you do the smae mistake again on friday during walk throughs and then again on Sunday (and over and over again) in the games when it matters, while the other 21 guys are held to a standard of excellence and push to be the best and do their jobs... thats something completely different. And when those failures are brushed away and isntead of being called out and addressed because they affect everyone else's performance are swept under the rug and instead, highlights shown of the flawed player 'saving the day' and getting accolades?

That is not what happens with Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, or any other bonafide leader of a team. They set the standard for performance and excellence like Doug, Sherm, and the others did on our champiosnhip squads. Its apparent that the one guy on the 22 not doing what he should have been was 3. And he was permitted to do so.

Which again, is why Wilsons remarks upon leaving here abot having to carry the team... Just low, man. Loowwww. Deluted. Narcisistic.. whatever clinical term you want to apply.

What happened here was not just the preferencial treatment given to a player and others being jealous. Russ's substandard play warranted addressing because it was holding the team back and instead, he was held up in the same light as a Brady, Brees or Manning. He was never in that class. He was just given the stage te play the role.

For a few years before Wilson was traded, I resigned to chanting "Pete sold his soul to Russ."