ADB gets real (KJ podcast)

[FlyingGunHawk]

That's the only opinion I have of it today. I have no idea what the coaching staff was thinking when Browner (who played with the Hawks for multiple years prior to that one) was there in the Patriots defense that year and was on the field at that moment and they STILL chose to use that play. How cocky/arrogant/stupid are you to risk a potential Superbowl victory with that play that Browner had experience seeing/covering? Why would you do such a thing?

I can't speak for the coaching staff, but I'll assume the coaches chose that play because they thought it would work. Why they thought that, only they know. There's a quote that I'm paraphrasing here but I've always liked it:

"It's easy to judge in leisure what others had to do in haste."

It's not much, but that's all I got.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That's the only opinion I have of it today. I have no idea what the coaching staff was thinking when Browner (who played with the Hawks for multiple years prior to that one) was there in the Patriots defense that year and was on the field at that moment and they STILL chose to use that play. How cocky/arrogant/stupid are you to risk a potential Superbowl victory with that play that Browner had experience seeing/covering? Why would you do such a thing?

Makes no sense at all. There isnt a single coach at any level that would have called that play, especially with Marshawn Lynch in the backfield. The best case scenario for that play is if Wilson would have just thrown it in the ground. That would have given Carroll and Bevell time to gain even a semblance of a clue as to what was going on. Even if Lockette caught the ball he gets stuffed at the spot so the play is no better than a run at that point and the timeout still needs called. It was the dumbest play call of all time.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yet John & Pete re-signed Wilson 3 times. Not sure why you have narrative that Wilson was not good here. LOB/Lynch left less then half of his career and they still kept winning. To say Wilson was the only player to want to further his pocket/career is very laughable. All the players did it. You got two guys trying to promote their broadcast and ADB who is mad at everyone. I dont recall Bennett, Mebane, Tate, Red, Kearse, or Avril talk crap about Wilson in terms of play. Even Lynch himself said “I played with Russ, and that little (expletive) is good, do you know what I'm saying? I watched [him] come through and make plays make throws, and I watched him make sacrifices. Yeah, I'm hot because we didn't win the second Super Bowl, but at the end of the day, I really watched his sacrifice.”

As for Luke Willson, who knows where his head was at the final year. He was already contemplating in retiring. The team previously was 12-4 and won the conference, its possible he was done with football. He also thought he was going to die. They also cut him previously.

KJ even put up money that Wilson would bounce back this year in Denver stating on his podcast that "he has the receipts" that backed it up. Obviously KJ thinks a lot of him.

 

[keasley45]

Lol. You make the teams best QB ever sound like he couldnt start for a high school team. The guy was one of the best QB's in the league for years and won a crap ton of games and yet in your eyes, all you can see are flaws. Was he a conventional QB? Nope. Was he a winner. Yep. Whats so wrong with that?

Umm no, the Russell Wilson that played for Seattle is not the same Russell Wilson that plays in Denver and you cant seem to understand that. You need to try.

Lolol. So stats arent going to fly with you huh? Just disregard those right? Here's something for you, what Russell Wilson accomplished in Seattle, not many other QB's in the league could replicate. If you think or dream a game managing QB would have had the same success, I dont know what to tell you. Geno is a game manager. Enjoy all the 7 to 9 win seasons coming up.

And as to me criticizing the 'best' qb in team history? That 'best' is a funny word isn't it. Kind of like how S Alexander is the 'best' RB in Seahawks history... but wasn't better than Marshawn Lynch or Curt Warner at the position or even in his era, was 2nd fiddle to probably half a dozen others who were hands down better runners.

And kind of like how if Lynch had run behind Alexander's line, he'd have gotten SA's yards, plus all the yards he left on the field sliding to his knees before he was touched.

See how that works?

Yeah. I'm gonna call Russ what everyone but his fans know that he is. You do know that it's a growing consensus that Russ was a product of Pete and Seattle's style of play, right? You do know that?

You also have to know that with each game that passes that has him missing wide open wrs and taking stupid sacks, all of the stories coming out of Seattle about how he routinely screwed up and was never forced to get better, ring truer and truer not as rumor, but obvious fact.

And you do know that going back to 2020, Russ was pretty much figured out and and that defenses play him the same way today that they did then. Right?

What's your response to that? And when you answer, please explain how a great qb can have his game figure out for 3 years running and not overcome it. With 3 different OCs, and 3 different coaches. PLEASE explain that.

Hang onto your stats. Clutch them like pearls. It's all that's left of #3.

PS Doug Baldwin said the playcall in the SB was good. Argue with him. Not me.

Bill Belichick said the play call made sense. Argue with him.

Lower and on the body or earlier before Lock clears, and we have 2 Lombardi's

 

[pittpnthrs]

And as to me criticizing the 'best' qb in team history? That 'best' is a funny word isn't it. Kind of like how S Alexander is the 'best' RB in Seahawks history... but wasn't better than Marshawn Lynch or Curt Warner at the position or even in his era, was 2nd fiddle to probably half a dozen others who were hands down better runners.

And kind of like how if Lynch had run behind Alexander's line, he'd have gotten SA's yards, plus all the yards he left on the field sliding to his knees before he was touched.

See how that works?

Yeah. I'm gonna call Russ what everyone but his fans know that he is. You do know that it's a growing consensus that Russ was a product of Pete and Seattle's style of play, right? You do know that?

You also have to know that with each game that passes that has him missing wide open wrs and taking stupid sacks, all of the stories coming out of Seattle about how he routinely screwed up and was never forced to get better, ring truer and truer not as rumor, but obvious fact.

And you do know that going back to 2020, Russ was pretty much figured out and and that defenses play him the same way today that they did then. Right?

What's your response to that? And when you answer, please explain how a great qb can have his game figure out for 3 years running and not overcome it. With 3 different OCs, and 3 different coaches. PLEASE explain that.

Hang onto your stats. Clutch them like pearls. It's all that's left of #3.

PS Doug Baldwin said the playcall in the SB was good. Argue with him. Not me.

Bill Belichick said the play call made sense. Argue with him.

Lower and on the body or earlier before Lock clears, and we have 2 Lombardi's

Your just talking from opinion. Alexander was a monster. He and Lynch were apples and oranges. Completely different running backs. Saying Lynch would have the same success or better? How do you know that? Alexander was quicker and more elusive than Lynch where Lynch was a power back. I love Warner too, but come on. In your eyes, I guess Emmitt Smith was just a scrub too because he ran behind an elite Oline for years right? Take a step back and listen to yourself man.

The consensus will all be on the same page when Carroll retires or is forced out without ever achieving the same kind of success that he did with a Russell Wilson in his prime. Thats going to take a few more years though. Give it time.

Baldwin never said the play call was good. He said through analytics he can kind of understand the decision (although it was a bad one). The whole world knows it was a dumb play. Stop trying to be Petes knight in shining armor. Belichick was just being a stand up guy. I guarantee he wouldnt have run that play in that situation.

Again, even if the worst receiver on the team catches the pass, he doesnt score. That play call cost Seattle their second Lombardi.

 

[keasley45]

Your just talking from opinion. Alexander was a monster. He and Lynch were apples and oranges. Completely different running backs. Saying Lynch would have the same success or better? How do you know that? Alexander was quicker and more elusive than Lynch where Lynch was a power back. I love Warner too, but come on. In your eyes, I guess Emmitt Smith was just a scrub too because he ran behind an elite Oline for years right? Take a step back and listen to yourself man.

The consensus will all be on the same page when Carroll retires or is forced out without ever achieving the same kind of success that he did with a Russell Wilson in his prime. Thats going to take a few more years though. Give it time.

Baldwin never said the play call was good. He said through analytics he can kind of understand the decision (although it was a bad one). The whole world knows it was a dumb play. Stop trying to be Petes knight in shining armor. Belichick was just being a stand up guy. I guarantee he wouldnt have run that play in that situation.

Again, even if the worst receiver on the team catches the pass, he doesnt score. That play call cost Seattle their second Lombardi.

I'm completely comfortable with my ability to look past stats and say unequivocally that Emitt Smith is not the best running back in the history of the league just because he has the most yards. You go ahead and try to make that argument if you want. And as far as pure skilled runners, Alexander isnt the best RB we've had.

Its as simple as this. If you were to assess a players ability in the various skills needed to succeed at their position and disregard statistics, youd be able to see more clearly who they are and what their strengths and weaknesses are. You are so hung up on Russ's nutts because of his numbers. yet you still conveniently ignore my ask that you explain how it is he can be so bad at basic requirements of the position in year 11. And you somehow dismiss his teammates unanimous view of him as not being up to par on his game even back then.

Connect the dots bro. His teammates disliked the fact that he wasnt good at aspects of his job pre 2015 and was allowed to get away with it. His best wr was frustrated at the double standard and putting in the work for nothing. His defense was frustrated for having to maintain a standard a play that got us wins, while he was allowed to put them in 3 and out bail out mode constsntly. AND THOSE THINGS HE SHOWED HE COULDNT DO THEN, HE STILL DOESNT DO NOW.

So before you rag on my response, just square up for me how it is his teammates were pissed then at the holes in his game that were allowed to persist. AND that there are STILL holes in his game that Kurt Warner i think called basic 'high school' qb'ing just last year? Explain how it is that you dont see a connection between what he couldnt do then and got away with, how he never did it while he was in Seattle, and how he still cant do it now in Denver, DESPITE BEING GIFTED THE BEST QB COACH IN THE LEAGUE - according to some. Thise are facts, stats be damned. Explain it.

Because when your offense is run by a guy who doesnt allow it to do basic, fundamental things, it will be handicapped. The fact that that guy could just make sh!+ go anyway doesnt change that. It wasnt sustainable.

But you know what? IGNORE the fact that as far back as 2018, John Schneider was looking to move on from Russ. Explain why if he was so phenomenal, would John be trying to trade the dude and NOT pay him top dollar? Heres a hint. Because he knew that Russ's game had already hit its ceiling.

At every turn, you are confronted with facts, not opinions, from Seahawks players, Analysts, The team's coach, the GM, that all point to the FACT that Russ was deficient and that the fact that he was never made to improve, fractured the team. FACT... that John Schneider wanted to move the dude 5 years ago. FACT that the things that led to his teammates being resentful towards him and his GM wanting to let him go are blatantly obvious now in his play in Denver.

Love certainly is blind.

And Pete's knight in shining armor or whatever you said? No. I've said it already. Its Pete's fault this all happened in the first place. he should have kept the team together and if Russ couldnt execute the position properly, he should have gotten together with John and figured out a trade partner or made some other move a lonngggg time ago. I said even in this thread that Pete built the team, and then was responsible for it falling apart.

So focus on the facts for once, that dont include your worship of stats.

 

[hawkfan68]

I'm completely comfortable with my ability to look past stats and say unequivocally that Emitt Smith is not the best running back in the history of the league just because he has the most yards. You go ahead and try to make that argument if you want. And as far as pure skilled runners, Alexander isnt the best RB we've had.

Its as simple as this. If you were to assess a players ability in the various skills needed to succeed at their position and disregard statistics, youd be able to see more clearly who they are and what their strengths and weaknesses are. You are so hung up on Russ's nutts because of his numbers. yet you still conveniently ignore my ask that you explain how it is he can be so bad at basic requirements of the position in year 11. And you somehow dismiss his teammates unanimous view of him as not being up to par on his game even back then.

Connect the dots bro. His teammates disliked the fact that he wasnt good at aspects of his job pre 2015 and was allowed to get away with it. His best wr was frustrated at the double standard and putting in the work for nothing. His defense was frustrated for having to maintain a standard a play that got us wins, while he was allowed to put them in 3 and out bail out mode constsntly. AND THOSE THINGS HE SHOWED HE COULDNT DO THEN, HE STILL DOESNT DO NOW.

So before you rag on my response, just square up for me how it is his teammates were pissed then at the holes in his game that were allowed to persist. AND that there are STILL holes in his game that Kurt Warner i think called basic 'high school' qb'ing just last year? Explain how it is that you dont see a connection between what he couldnt do then and got away with, how he never did it while he was in Seattle, and how he still cant do it now in Denver, DESPITE BEING GIFTED THE BEST QB COACH IN THE LEAGUE - according to some. Thise are facts, stats be damned. Explain it.

Because when your offense is run by a guy who doesnt allow it to do basic, fundamental things, it will be handicapped. The fact that that guy could just make sh!+ go anyway doesnt change that. It wasnt sustainable.

But you know what? IGNORE the fact that as far back as 2018, John Schneider was looking to move on from Russ. Explain why if he was so phenomenal, would John be trying to trade the dude and NOT pay him top dollar? Heres a hint. Because he knew that Russ's game had already hit its ceiling.

At every turn, you are confronted with facts, not opinions, from Seahawks players, Analysts, The team's coach, the GM, that all point to the FACT that Russ was deficient and that the fact that he was never made to improve, fractured the team. FACT... that John Schneider wanted to move the dude 5 years ago. FACT that the things that led to his teammates being resentful towards him and his GM wanting to let him go are blatantly obvious now in his play in Denver.

Love certainly is blind.

And Pete's knight in shining armor or whatever you said? No. I've said it already. Its Pete's fault this all happened in the first place. he should have kept the team together and if Russ couldnt execute the position properly, he should have gotten together with John and figured out a trade partner or made some other move a lonngggg time ago. I said even in this thread that Pete built the team, and then was responsible for it falling apart.

So focus on the facts for once, that dont include your worship of stats.

So is hate for that matter. Both love and hatred can be illogical, crushing, overriding. It works both ways. You may not hate Russell as a person but you certainly hate Russ the football player. That strongly shows through the tone of your posts.

 

[JPatera76]

So is hate for that matter. Both love and hatred can be illogical, crushing, overriding. It works both ways. You may not hate Russell as a person but you certainly hate Russ the football player. That strongly shows through the tone of your posts.

Really well said and can be applied to soooo much outside of football as well. Keeping with Football though, i.e. the Media has talked nonstop about Mahomes, I like him as a person but hate him as a football player, or Gronk.

 

[hawkfan68]

Really well said and can be applied to soooo much outside of football as well. Keeping with Football though, i.e. the Media has talked nonstop about Mahomes, I like him as a person but hate him as a football player, or Gronk.

Thanks JPatera76. I appreciate the kind words. Whether you love or hate them, both Russ and Pete were part of the best of times for the Seahawks. I choose enjoy both of their contributions to bringing the Lombardi trophy to Seattle.

Pete isn't going to coach forever and Russ isn't going to play forever but I hope the Seahawks continue to win forever (that certainly could happen).

 

[FlyingGunHawk]

Really well said and can be applied to soooo much outside of football as well. Keeping with Football though, i.e. the Media has talked nonstop about Mahomes, I like him as a person but hate him as a football player, or Gronk.

Mahomes is basically the face of the NFL at this point. It can get old at times. He replaced Manning in that regard IMO

 

[keasley45]

So is hate for that matter. Both love and hatred can be illogical, crushing, overriding. It works both ways. You may not hate Russell as a person but you certainly hate Russ the football player. That strongly shows through the tone of your posts.

SMH. I dont hate him as a player. For christmas sake. What you read in my response is pushing back on a position based solely on stats, ignoring everything else about his game, current play, past play, his past coach's assessments, analysts assessments, past players perspectives, etc.

Russ gave us some of the most memorable games in franchise history. And he was flawed and frustrating. He was incredibly accurate and extraordinarily talented. And couldnt read defenses.

Some folks just dont have the ability to see beyond the binary. Not being able to see that a player can be both great, and not great and that thats just how it is... thats life. Whether in sports, beusiness, or whatever else. elevating a player to hero status to the point of NOT being able to see anything that challenges that position...

ie Russ is either hero or villain. I believe he was both. He brought us success and held us back. He was the best player we've ever had at the position... and arguably NOT the best QB. Life is rarely black and white and it certainly isnt in sports, nor is it in this case.

Russ's is still the only Seahawks jersey i purchased.

 

[Hollandhawk]

SMH. I dont hate him as a player. For christmas sake. What you read in my response is pushing back on a position based solely on stats, ignoring everything else about his game, current play, past play, his past coach's assessments, analysts assessments, past players perspectives, etc.

Russ gave us some of the most memorable games in franchise history. And he was flawed and frustrating. He was incredibly accurate and extraordinarily talented. And couldnt read defenses.

Some folks just dont have the ability to see beyond the binary. Not being able to see that a player can be both great, and not great and that thats just how it is... thats life. Whether in sports, beusiness, or whatever else. elevating a player to hero status to the point of NOT being able to see anything that challenges that position...

ie Russ is either hero or villain. I believe he was both. He brought us success and held us back. He was the best player we've ever had at the position... and arguably NOT the best QB. Life is rarely black and white and it certainly isnt in sports, nor is it in this case.

Russ's is still the only Seahawks jersey i purchased.

You’d think people would catch on after Pete turned Geno Smith into a pro bowler and Wilson turned into a shit QB without him…

 

[keasley45]

Yet John & Pete re-signed Wilson 3 times. Not sure why you have narrative that Wilson was not good here. LOB/Lynch left less then half of his career and they still kept winning. To say Wilson was the only player to want to further his pocket/career is very laughable. All the players did it. You got two guys trying to promote their broadcast and ADB who is mad at everyone. I dont recall Bennett, Mebane, Tate, Red, Kearse, or Avril talk crap about Wilson in terms of play. Even Lynch himself said “I played with Russ, and that little (expletive) is good, do you know what I'm saying? I watched [him] come through and make plays make throws, and I watched him make sacrifices. Yeah, I'm hot because we didn't win the second Super Bowl, but at the end of the day, I really watched his sacrifice.”

As for Luke Willson, who knows where his head was at the final year. He was already contemplating in retiring. The team previously was 12-4 and won the conference, its possible he was done with football. He also thought he was going to die. They also cut him previously.

i didnt say he wasnt good. I said by 2018 John Schneider looked at other option. ANd he was given a 3rd contract id wager more on Pete's endorsement than Johns. I say that because John was VERY obviously ready to move on from Russ while Pete, up until and even after the trade, was still trying to be positive. But Pete always saw Russ that way, as has been made apparnet by all the interviews of players since Russ's departure.

I said he was the best player we've had at the position. He gave us some of the most memorable moments in franchise history. And he held us back because he struggled to read defenses and see the field. if you wanna hold that his ability to improvise completely erased all of his flaws, thats fine. I think the history of 3 and outs (as an example) and his teammates frustration at his play to the point it contribted to the fracturing of the lockerroom, shows the players around him felt we werent as good as we could have been.

Those two realities, as contrary as they may be, can coexist.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You’d think people would catch on after Pete turned Geno Smith into a pro bowler and Wilson turned into a shit QB without him…

Russ was a shit QB with him too for two years. Russ is done and has been done for 4 years now. As for Geno, he played within the system and didnt do much outside of that. For all his accolades he received last season, the team was still only one game above .500 and lost in the first round of the playoffs and more than likely will probably follow that same path this season. For as good as Genos numbers were last year, he would have to play way, way better to move the team forward towards better success due to everything else. Sounds a lot like what #3 was expected to do for years in Seattle.

 

[LickMyNuts]

Russ was a shit QB with him too for two years. Russ is done and has been done for 4 years now. As for Geno, he played within the system and didnt do much outside of that. For all his accolades he received last season, the team was still only one game above .500 and lost in the first round of the playoffs and more than likely will probably follow that same path this season. For as good as Genos numbers were last year, he would have to play way, way better to move the team forward towards better success due to everything else. Sounds a lot like what #3 was expected to do for years in Seattle.

It’s unclear what you’re arguing here?

Wasn’t that long ago that you said RW lost his weapons in Denver and that was the problem.

You didn’t like GS last year and then you did.

You jump on here when the Seahawks lose with your Captain Obvious arguments to rally the Burn PC at the stake crowd.

I mean really GS needs to play better to move the Seahawks forward? Do you have any other hot takes?

Should the defense try to get the other team to score less points?

 

[pittpnthrs]

It’s unclear what you’re arguing here?

Wasn’t that long ago that you said RW lost his weapons in Denver and that was the problem.

You didn’t like GS last year and then you did.

You jump on here when the Seahawks lose with your Captain Obvious arguments to rally the Burn PC at the stake crowd.

I mean really GS needs to play better to move the Seahawks forward? Do you have any other hot takes?

Should the defense try to get the other team to score less points?

I just dont think Wilson was the devil that everybody makes him out to be and I believe Carroll is the biggest culprit for the teams issues. I admit I was wrong about Wilson in the aspect that I thought his play would improve with a change of scenery. It hasent and its clear he's done.

Geno played surprisingly well last season. Do I think he's the answer for the team or has he sold me? Hell no. I see nothing changing as long as Carroll is the coach.

If you think things are heading in the right direction and you have faith in Pete Carroll,,,,great. I dont. All I see is more of the same old, same old.