“We Still Mad”. Bobby Wagner

[BlueTalon]

The highly illegal forearm shiver to Cliff Avril's head that resulted in our pass rush dwindling should hardly be considered fair and square. It wasn't even remotely like he was trying to block Avril, he left his feet throwing that forearm directly into Avril's head. Completely intentional cheating.

Fair enough. I'll just say that at the end of the game (49) I didn't feel like the refs had actively intervened throughout the game to prevent us from winning. I absolutely did feel that way after XL*.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Well, yeah, but that's the extent of Carroll's involvement. He asked Bevell to dial up a pass. He delegated to his offensive playcaller. That's not panicking, that's just standard process.

And, no, it is not common sense to run on second down with a single timeout on a running clock with 20 seconds left. You'd want to pass, ideally, to keep your timeout which allows you actual flexibility on third and fourth down rather than being pigeonholed into passing on both downs. You ideally don't waste the single rush attempt you'd have in the scenario where they run on second by sending Lynch into a heavily-outnumbered front.

Lynch got the 4 yard run the play before because the Patriots had a light box. They *doubled* that box on second down and dared us to run it. Bill didn't call timeout and stacked the box to try to bait them into running it, getting stuffed for probably a 2 yard loss, and force Seattle into a one-dimensional goal line offense for the remaining 2 downs.

This comment on r/FootballStrategy where they break down the exact play with a full X-and-O diagram explains it better than I can.

Yes, it was Bevell more so than Pete, but as the head coach you should digest what the play is going to be and step in accordingly. Also, I think we all agree Bevell should have been shown the door immediately after.

It is common sense playing to the teams strength with the personnel instead of their weaknesses. Even Luke Willson said on KJ's podcast that the players couldn't believe the playcall. He said a certain play (can't remember) that they used all the time would have resulted in Lynch walking in for a TD and was amazed it wasn't called. Even with the stacked box, he was getting in and i'll always believe that especially with how gassed the defense was and how much adrenaline and momentum the Hawks had at that moment. They would have won the push. People can bring up the goal line success rate during the season with Lynch all they want. The closing moments of the Super Bowl is a different situation completely.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I've been saying this for years. It wasn't a bad play call. It's all completely hindsight bias.

It was though. It was a play the defense had already recognized before it even happened. It was also a play that had no business being called with the personnel that was involved. It was a travisty of a play call and nobody was held accountable for it. It was the end of the road for the team afterwards. That's how bad that play call was.

 

[IndyHawk]

I want to make something very, very clear.

View attachment 66478
If you get this look at any point during a play, it was not the "worst call of all time" regardless of what actually transpired. We got exactly what we needed here and outside of the WORST POSSIBLE THING HAPPENING due to several factors including the throw being suboptimal, Kearse getting blown up harder than he should've, and Malcolm Butler suddenly understanding a play he'd been burned on all year including in the practices leading up to the game.

The absolute worst outcome possible ended up happening, but this look in the screenshot above? Without the benefit of being able to Captain Hindsight the situation, any offensive coordinator in the world would take that 100 out of 100 times over running into a box where you're outnumbered by 2 or 3 bodies. Any of them.

Look at all that space in that moment, fire it one second earlier and it's
a TD.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Look at all that space in that moment, fire it one second earlier and it's
a TD.

No it's not. Even if he catches it he still gets stuffed.

 

[NoGain]

We all know how good RW is throwing to the center of the field, especially the coaching staff.

 

[Palmegranite]

Wilson should have hung on to the ball and ran it in himself.

Sometimes you can't depend on others and you just need to do it yourself.

 

[chris98251]

I want to make something very, very clear.

View attachment 66478
If you get this look at any point during a play, it was not the "worst call of all time" regardless of what actually transpired. We got exactly what we needed here and outside of the WORST POSSIBLE THING HAPPENING due to several factors including the throw being suboptimal, Kearse getting blown up harder than he should've, and Malcolm Butler suddenly understanding a play he'd been burned on all year including in the practices leading up to the game.

The absolute worst outcome possible ended up happening, but this look in the screenshot above? Without the benefit of being able to Captain Hindsight the situation, any offensive coordinator in the world would take that 100 out of 100 times over running into a box where you're outnumbered by 2 or 3 bodies. Any of them.

Butler is in position to step up, Wilson has not even finished his drop and set up, Kearse is already crushed, and I don't care which WR you are in the league, nobody is going to stop Browner from stuffing someone if your a WR, he was that big and strong. He could have done the same thing to most TE's as well. Another second and Butler and Lockett are in the same place, Butler can see everything, Lockett looking for the ball already can't see what is coming.

In fact a quick Audible and have Lockett change his route to outside and basically Pick Browner would have been better, easier pass for Wilson, easier catch for Lockett, Kearse still gets blown up because Browner would have read the inside play if Lockett takes a step in and breaks outside which all WR's should have as a set up move.

And if incomplete it goes out of bounds and you don't have to use a time out.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Butler is in position to step up, Wilson has not even finished his drop and set up, Kearse is already crushed, and I don't care which WR you are in the league, nobody is going to stop Browner from stuffing someone if your a WR, he was that big and strong. He could have done the same thing to most TE's as well. Another second and Butler and Lockett are in the same place, Butler can see everything, Lockett looking for the ball already can't see what is coming.

In fact a quick Audible and have Lockett change his route to outside and basically Pick Browner would have been better, easier pass for Wilson, easier catch for Lockett, Kearse still gets blown up because Browner would have read the inside play if Lockett takes a step in and breaks outside which all WR's should have as a set up move.

And if incomplete it goes out of bounds and you don't have to use a time out.

This is what i'm saying (and getting laughed at apparently). Butler is right there. Even if RL catches that pass, he's getting tackled short.

 

[IndyHawk]

This is what i'm saying (and getting laughed at apparently). Butler is right there. Even if RL catches that pass, he's getting tackled short.

That may happen but still a chance of scoring depending how he is tackled and falls.
I was laughing you before because you never agree on it.

 

[NoGain]

The coaching staff had two weeks to prepare for the game. Any good coaching staff with double the amount of time to prepare for a team/game game-plans for just about every feasible scenario. Then they chart plays based upon these various scenarios. Surely the Hawks coaching staff envisioned a scenario like this in their two minute offenses, as in what plays to run when you're near the goal line in such a situation as this.

My argument has always been why was this play even on the chart? Or if it was, it should have been down the list beneath much better options that played into our strengths personnel-wise or otherwise as a team.

It was a terrible call given the other available options. And the proof is in the pudding. IT WAS INTERCEPTED!

 

[GemCity]

They’ve done it before

 

[Liquid99]

I remember telling my wife "OMG, my team is winning B2B SB's" Stacked box looking for Lynch. RW naked bootleg and he probably could have walked in.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That may happen but still a chance of scoring depending how he is tackled and falls.
I was laughing you before because you never agree on it.

Lol. I understand. Its just the momentum of it all. Butler is coming straight ahead while Ricardo is running sideways.

No biggie. Peace buddy.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I remember telling my wife "OMG, my team is winning B2B SB's" Stacked box looking for Lynch. RW naked bootleg and he probably could have walked in.

I remember repeating "don't pass", "don't pass", "don't pass" because I knew Carroll. And here we are. Lol

 

[Lords of Scythia]

So Pete's reasoning was that the play worked once against the Cardinals? I would have been one of those players that walked out too. Nobody was buying that nonsense.

His reasoning was we had to pass at least once, or the clock would run out. That was the play we passed on. Marshawn gets stuffed and the clock runs our, people are second-guessing that.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

That play haunts me. I've always thought the best play was a zone read with Wilson walking in on the left side. Their outside linebacker was as slow as anyone in the league and they overcommitted to stopping Lynch up the middle and he wasn't as successful as we think he was in that regard. For me I'm still pissed at the play call with your special teams gunner being required to run a perfect route and thinking Kearse was going to win a one on one with Browner who was the best in the league in that regard. For me, that's what caused the pick and the fact that NE practiced for that specific play multiple times before the game. That's on the staff, not Russ, Not Lockette and even not Kearse.

We truly lost because everyone on the defense got hurt and they picked us a part. We also dropped a crucial third down that seals the game that Wilson dropped right in the bucket.

Such a strange game.

This post pretty much summarizes my thoughts on how it played out 100%. The only play you didn't mention that also haunts me is 3rd and > 10 after a sack and Brady hits Edelman for the first down.

 

[jeremiah]

The most painful sport event stuck in my brain.

Emotional Me: Give it to Lynch...Money$$$$!!!
Logical Me: Stacked box looking for Lynch, corner playing off my slot #3/4 reciever.

Left Brain/Right Brain battle until I'm 6' under.

If Ben Rothlisberger, or any decent QB were at QB on that play, he looks at the D, looks left and hits #24 in the left side of the End Zone.

 

[jeremiah]

His reasoning was we had to pass at least once, or the clock would run out. That was the play we passed on. Marshawn gets stuffed and the clock runs our, people are second-guessing that.

That was the most glaring example of bad clock management by PC. There should have been a lot more time on the clock. I can give example after example of the team wasting the clock, running it down to the last few seconds, then having to call a timeout. Carroll was THE WORST

 

[knownone]

Honestly, the way some players talk about the play drives me insane. There's no guarantee running the ball wins the game, and it's even more absurd to assume they could have won three Super Bowls. Listening to multiple former players talk about it, one thing becomes clear: Parts of the locker room were so selfish, egotistical, and insubordinate that they let one play destroy the team. So, failing to succeed long-term speaks more to their maturity than the play call or whatever went into making it. It's a convenient way for them to excuse their failures after that season.

That's the sad reality of the LOB. They weren't a dynasty because their best players were too volatile to handle setbacks and maintain a winning culture.