Poll: Leonard Williams trade

[SoulfishHawk]

I think we can all agree that this is going to be a VERY interesting off season. For several reasons.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I can just as easily have said at the time that the rams was just a fluke to start the season after going 5-1 the next 6, with the one loss being at Cincinnati by 4 points before burrow got hurt, come on dude

Honestly though, did you honestly think their 6-2 start was indicative of how the team really was? I ask, because some actually did. It was very clear the bottom was going to fall out and of course it did. Besides the Lions, they beat nobody of substance early on.

 

[12forlife]

I find this site to be harder & harder to take seriously? We are coming up on the richest QB class in as long as i remember, yet a good amount of people seem to be fine with Geno's mediocre play? Now we find our Defense looking like a open barn door against the run, so again people on here dont want to literally pay up for our best run defender, one we traded for and have in house! Why would you not want Williams over Jones? If it were me as GM i restructure jones contract or trade him. Why would we let a key piece to this reshuffle walk? He brings alot more to this team then just a run stuffer, does have pass rush skill, and we need his kinda personality/ leadership in the locker room especially if Wagner moves on.

 

[renofox]

I find this site to be harder & harder to take seriously? We are coming up on the richest QB class in as long as i remember, yet a good amount of people seem to be fine with Geno's mediocre play? Now we find our Defense looking like a open barn door against the run, so again people on here dont want to literally pay up for our best run defender, one we traded for and have in house! Why would you not want Williams over Jones? If it were me as GM i restructure jones contract or trade him. Why would we let a key piece to this reshuffle walk? He brings alot more to this team then just a run stuffer, does have pass rush skill, and we need his kinda personality/ leadership in the locker room especially if Wagner moves on.

Would you be OK signing Williams to a $25M/yr contract if it meant having replacement (-) players at ILB and OL?

 

[Parallax]

Would you be OK signing Williams to a $25M/yr contract if it meant having replacement (-) players at ILB and OL?

Thanks for asking the question I was going to ask. It's not that some of us don't want to sign Williams. It's that we see the need for value and to use our cap space wisely. Which is also why some of us were appalled by the trade. I've ranted about it before so want bother to go into it again.

Williams is a good player. Very good. Not Nick Bosa or Aaron Donald but who is? So none of this is a knock on Williams. His 5 and a half sacks last year isn't all that much but he contributed in many ways, not least of which was run defense. Would just much rather have the second and the fifth. Mafe was a second round pick and he's playing quite well on a rookie-scale contract.

 

[12forlife]

Would you be OK signing Williams to a $25M/yr contract if it meant having replacement (-) players at ILB and OL?

Absolutely not! I hope we have learned from previous bad trades / bad contracts.
If we can use Williams similar to Geno, as the bridge to the future. I really like LW attitude/personality, besides his style of play to help build the new culture. Just a personal preference.
Now with that said he isn't worth 25mil a yr to us where realistically we are 3-5 years from becoming SB contenders? If we can sign LW to a 2-3 yr deal worth 16-18 mil per yr. I would be ok with that.

 

[Parallax]

Absolutely not! I hope we have learned from previous bad trades / bad contracts.
If we can use Williams similar to Geno, as the bridge to the future. I really like LW attitude/personality, besides his style of play to help build the new culture. Just a personal preference.
Now with that said he isn't worth 25mil a yr to us where realistically we are 3-5 years from becoming SB contenders? If we can sign LW to a 2-3 yr deal worth 16-18 mil per yr. I would be ok with that.

The 2024 cap will probably be around $240M so that's around 7 or 7.5 percent of it. To me, that's the upper limit of what his value is to the team. He would be our best run stopper and he is, to some extent, a true difference maker. But this isn't the year we're gonna make a deep playoff run and we need to develop (play) young guys (so they can learn and get experience) so I have no problem if Macdonald and Schneider decide to move on.

 

[renofox]

Absolutely not! I hope we have learned from previous bad trades / bad contracts.
If we can use Williams similar to Geno, as the bridge to the future. I really like LW attitude/personality, besides his style of play to help build the new culture. Just a personal preference.
Now with that said he isn't worth 25mil a yr to us where realistically we are 3-5 years from becoming SB contenders? If we can sign LW to a 2-3 yr deal worth 16-18 mil per yr. I would be ok with that.

I'm close to where you're at, but I put his max value to the team at ~15M. I didn't think he'd be available at that price so just crossed him off my list of possibilities.

 

[bigcc]

I

Honestly though, did you honestly think their 6-2 start was indicative of how the team really was? I ask, because some actually did. It was very clear the bottom was going to fall out and of course it did. Besides the Lions, they beat nobody of substance early on.

Yes. They were a 5-2 team and nearly half the wins were against playoff teams. Browns were 4-2, had beaten the 9ers 2 weeks earlier, ended 11-6 in the most competitive division this year.

But sure dog lemme guess, who else besides those two playoff teams?

 

[bigcc]

Would you be OK signing Williams to a $25M/yr contract if it meant having replacement (-) players at ILB and OL?

No, because his franchise hit is 21.6 and the athletic says we're working to give him a deal.

Would you be OK keeping geno at 22.5 while he'd be a 34 year old qb learning a new offense with a new OC, new qb coach etc....

By the time he figures it out he's going to retire.

I swear... Lmao

 

[Parallax]

Yes. They were a 5-2 team and nearly half the wins were against playoff teams.

We see the world through very different lenses. I'd say we had one significant win among those six and it was against a Lions team that was still finding itself and had overlooked us. We beat a Wildcard team too but just barely. The loss to the Rams was most indicative, until the following week when the Ravens completely unmasked us.

Which is not to say the Hawks were horrible in 2023. Just obviously not a real "contenda", to paraphrase Terry Malloy in "On the Waterfront". Except there was no way we were one.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They Hawks are not a contender, yet. But they certainly don't suck. Hoping all these changes bring us back in the mix.

 

[bigcc]

Thanks for asking the question I was going to ask. It's not that some of us don't want to sign Williams. It's that we see the need for value and to use our cap space wisely. Which is also why some of us were appalled by the trade. I've ranted about it before so want bother to go into it again.

Williams is a good player. Very good. Not Nick Bosa or Aaron Donald but who is? So none of this is a knock on Williams. His 5 and a half sacks last year isn't all that much but he contributed in many ways, not least of which was run defense. Would just much rather have the second and the fifth. Mafe was a second round pick and he's playing quite well on a rookie-scale contract.

Bro you're comparing an edge rusher to an interior Lineman.

They literally have different roles. You know who else was a HIGH 2nd round pick in the actual same role? Derrick hall, who played 26 percent of the total defensive snaps and had zero sacks.

I'm not even trying to diss hall I'm just pointing out your original comparison doesn't make sense

 

[Parallax]

No, because his franchise hit is 21.6 and the athletic says we're working to give him a deal.

Would you be OK keeping geno at 22.5 while he'd be a 34 year old qb learning a new offense with a new OC, new qb coach etc....

By the time he figures it out he's going to retire.

I swear... Lmao

They Hawks are not a contender, yet. But they certainly don't suck. Hoping all these changes bring us back in the mix.

Sure. We all want that. But when we emerge, I want it to be for real. So I'm content to step back and rebuild. If we have a down season (or two or even three) I won't be surprised or upset. Takes time to rebuild a roster.

If I were to guess, I don't imagine it will likely take three years. We have a lot of pieces. A lot will come down to whether Macdonald and his coaches can get our 2022 and 2023 picks playing to their full potential, and then of course that we continue to draft well.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I

Yes. They were a 5-2 team and nearly half the wins were against playoff teams. Browns were 4-2, had beaten the 9ers 2 weeks earlier, ended 11-6 in the most competitive division this year.

But sure dog lemme guess, who else besides those two playoff teams?

Sorry, I thought most people paid attention to the schedule after that 6-2 start. The Browns game was fools gold. They barely beat a team that had PJ Walker at QB who was benched for their 3rd stringer who was benched for an old man that hadn't played meaningful football in years. Yeah the 49ers lost to them when half the team was hurt and they had a 3 game skid.

It's ok if you thought the Hawks were legit after their start. I didn't and it turned out they weren't.

 

[bigcc]

Sorry, I thought most people paid attention to the schedule after that 6-2 start. The Browns game was fools gold. They barely beat a team that had PJ Walker at QB who was benched for their 3rd stringer who was benched for an old man that hadn't played meaningful football in years. Yeah the 49ers lost to them when half the team was hurt and they had a 3 game skid.

It's ok if you thought the Hawks were legit after their start. I didn't and it turned out they weren't.

If I made it sound like I thought that record was going to extrapolate, I didn't mean to.

I just think it's absurd to try to wash away 2 playoff team wins lol....

That being said, the schedule they lined up for the second half was absolute bullshit. Everyone knew those teams were legit before the season started, ridiculous.

 

[bigcc]

Sure. We all want that. But when we emerge, I want it to be for real. So I'm content to step back and rebuild. If we have a down season (or two or even three) I won't be surprised or upset. Takes time to rebuild a roster.

If I were to guess, I don't imagine it will likely take three years. We have a lot of pieces. A lot will come down to whether Macdonald and his coaches can get our 2022 and 2023 picks playing to their full potential, and then of course that we continue to draft well.

If it takes 3 damn years I'm just going to assume we ****** up and went with lock

In all seriousness it shouldn't take 3, that means we blew it at qb

 

[MontanaHawk05]

A proper valuation of a trade includes the possibility that a draft pick might bust. Williams is the bird, the pick is in the bush.

 

[pittpnthrs]

If I made it sound like I thought that record was going to extrapolate, I didn't mean to.

I just think it's absurd to try to wash away 2 playoff team wins lol....

That being said, the schedule they lined up for the second half was absolute bullshit. Everyone knew those teams were legit before the season started, ridiculous.

It was a brutal schedule for sure. No arguments here. That compounded with not being able to beat the Rams spelled trouble.

They beat the Eagles too so it was 3 playoff team wins. Lol

 

[Parallax]

If it takes 3 damn years I'm just going to assume we ****** up and went with lock

In all seriousness it shouldn't take 3, that means we blew it at qb

There's no guarantee we ever get there. But now at least we're pointed in a new direction and we're making a concerted effort. That's all a fan can ask for.