Do PC/JS have a Mahomes-Allen QB man-crush on any '23 QBs?

[Ozzy]

Ok. I am actually going to throw this out here. More than likely I am wrong, and will get villified for it. However, I have Dan McGwire flashbacks watching Levis play. A lot of his long throws are his receivers making him look good. A lot of red zone touchdowns are rudimentary throws that anyone should be able to make.

You won't get vilified from me. I haven't watched a ton of his stuff. I've just read that pro scouts are much higher on him than the media and Staton has watched every snap and came away thinking Levis is in the mix for #1 overall. But it's hard to evaluate him because his supporting cast was so bad. If you move Stroud to Kentucky and Levis to Ohio St its very possible that their numbers are switched.

So many of these guys miss though that it's just as likely that he's McGwire as he is a Franchise guy for sure. That's why this draft is so much fun, we will have no idea what the Seahawks are thinking until it happens.

 

[Double Tribble]

Hooker is too old at 25 to sit for a year. He would need to start. Levis makes sense to sit, but not if you're taking him in the top 5. If you got Hooker with our late 1st/early 2nd pick, and started him? Sure, why not. Geno wants to get paid, and I doubt the Hawks want to saddle themselves with another expensive qb contract already.

 

[Ozzy]

Hooker is too old at 25 to sit for a year. He would need to start. Levis makes sense to sit, but not if you're taking him in the top 5. If you got Hooker with our late 1st/early 2nd pick, and started him? Sure, why not. Geno wants to get paid, and I doubt the Hawks want to saddle themselves with another expensive qb contract already.

Yeah I just can't imagine signing back up for an expensive contract after just setting yourself up to get out of one. Now its possible Geno's market isn't what we think it is and it could be cheap. His second half wasn't great and could've been much worse when you get past the numbers, his turnover worthy throws were super high. I'm not saying he isn't good but I'm not sure its smart to pay him 20+ when you're in a position to capitalize on a rookie/low contract.

 

[BASF]

Yeah I just can't imagine signing back up for an expensive contract after just setting yourself up to get out of one. Now its possible Geno's market isn't what we think it is and it could be cheap. His second half wasn't great and could've been much worse when you get past the numbers, his turnover worthy throws were super high. I'm not saying he isn't good but I'm not sure its smart to pay him 20+ when you're in a position to capitalize on a rookie/low contract.

There is a vast difference between the $30M+ that Geno will get (pretty much the going rate for a veteran QB that has led his team to the playoffs) and the quarter of a billion dollars that Wilson was doing a hold in to get though.

 

[Ozzy]

Sure but 30 million takes up most of your cap and you're still in a similar position that you said was holding you back during Wilsons's last few years. I still would much rather find my guy in the draft if he's there and pay him a rookie contract for 5 years then to pay Geno 30 million for multiple years. I realize those aren't the only two options though.

 

[Hawkinaz]

Yeah I just can't imagine signing back up for an expensive contract after just setting yourself up to get out of one. Now its possible Geno's market isn't what we think it is and it could be cheap. His second half wasn't great and could've been much worse when you get past the numbers, his turnover worthy throws were super high. I'm not saying he isn't good but I'm not sure its smart to pay him 20+ when you're in a position to capitalize on a rookie/low contract.

Levis is old too will be 24 when drafted. If drafting a QB this year I can see one that nobody is talking about probably more of a system QB that will have a shorter learning curve I don’t think PC wants a project

 

[massari]

I haven't watched a ton of his stuff. I've just read that pro scouts are much higher on him than the media and Staton has watched every snap and came away thinking Levis is in the mix for #1 overall. But it's hard to evaluate him because his supporting cast was so bad. If you move Stroud to Kentucky and Levis to Ohio St its very possible that their numbers are switched.

Respect for not reading draft analysts opinions and pretending it's your own observations. I follow a few respected ones with good track records who watch EVERY snap from top prospects. According to multiple ones that I've been following, the top QBs seem to be getting undervalued in this class by the popular mainstream guys as usual. Speaking of Stanton, he brought up this point:

Patrick Mahomes wasn’t even listed in Daniel Jeremiah’s top-50 prospects in his February list ahead of the 2017 draft. That wouldn’t be so bad — but in an updated version in April, Mahomes still wasn’t listed in the top-50.

Deshone Kizer, however, was ranked on both occasions.

In Jeremiah’s April 2017 mock draft, he eventually did include Mahomes in round one — at #27 overall. Deshaun Watson wasn’t included in the first frame. They ended up being the #10 and #12 picks respectively.

Mahomes himself revealed he was given a second round grade by the draft committee.

The excellent Lance Zierlein graded Mahomes at a 6.30 — a lower grade than Drew Lock (6.40). In his report, Zierlein noted:

“Mahomes will be a work in progress, but he’s a high ceiling, low floor prospect.”

And sort of off topic, but just saw this quote of Seahawks Draft Blog. Hawks fans are always on about the QB bust rate, implying it's safer to get a pass rusher, but this sort of paints a different picture:

Indeed, in another article I wrote recently, I highlighted the mixed results of D-liners drafted early in recent years:

Look at the pass rushers drafted in the top-10 between 2017-2021:
2017 — Solomon Thomas
Genuinely looked the part at Stanford, was drafted third overall and was a complete and total bust

2018 — Bradley Chubb
Recently traded by Denver to Miami, Chubb is a good not great player and while certainly offering plus ability off the edge, he’s not a particularly feared ‘game-wrecker’.

2019 — Nick Bosa, Quinnen Williams, Clelin Ferrell, Josh Allen, Ed Oliver
Bosa is unquestionably one of the best in the game. Williams has needed all four years of his rookie contract to realise his potential and now looks legit. Ferrell was a bust, while Allen and Oliver are fairly middling players.

2020 — Chase Young
Injuries have stalled Young’s career but there wasn’t that much evidence of ‘game-wrecking’ potential when he was on the field. He feels more like a player who can become Bradley Chubb rather than Nick Bosa.

2021 — None

As we can see, the hit-rate isn’t good. It’s worse than the top-10 quarterbacks drafted that have become excellent players (Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert). You also have players who have flashed franchise potential (Murray, Tagovailoa) and players who could yet reach that level (Lawrence).

 

[Sun Tzu]

Sure but 30 million takes up most of your cap and you're still in a similar position that you said was holding you back during Wilsons's last few years. I still would much rather find my guy in the draft if he's there and pay him a rookie contract for 5 years then to pay Geno 30 million for multiple years. I realize those aren't the only two options though.

Most?
It's great that we all have different opinions and can debate them. How about expressing your opinion while also being honest about the facts? 30 million is not most of the cap.

 

[Ozzy]

How much cap space does Seattle have next year? I'm seeing 45 million....so 30 million is most of that cap space. Obviously they can move players, release guys, sign Geno for less etc but its a valid point. Maybe assuming being are lying on a football message board anytime someone disagrees isn't the best approach since you've leveled this multiple times in here?

 

[Hawkinaz]

How much cap space does Seattle have next year? I'm seeing 45 million....so 30 million is most of that cap space. Obviously they can move players, release guys, sign Geno for less etc but its a valid point. Maybe assuming being are lying on a football message board anytime someone disagrees isn't the best approach since you've leveled this multiple times in here?

And don’t forget what it will sign the draft picks with a normal draft expect $10 million and with two 1st rd picks probably pushing $15 million

 

[Hawkinaz]

Respect for not reading draft analysts opinions and pretending it's your own observations. I follow a few respected ones with good track records who watch EVERY snap from top prospects. According to multiple ones that I've been following, the top QBs seem to be getting undervalued in this class by the popular mainstream guys as usual. Speaking of Stanton, he brought up this point:


And sort of off topic, but just saw this quote of Seahawks Draft Blog. Hawks fans are always on about the QB bust rate, implying it's safer to get a pass rusher, but this sort of paints a different picture:

Speaking of Mike Staton he had mock draft about a month ago where he had Anthony Richardson going at #1 I could only assume it was for shock value. I don’t pay attention to scouts I view them as politicians most of what’s coming out of their mouths are lies “ why would they tell you what they really think”

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah I can't see anyway Richardson goes #1. I do think he is going to wow people though when they get to view him up close. Physically he is a potential monster at the position.

 

[massari]

Speaking of Mike Staton he had mock draft about a month ago where he had Anthony Richardson going at #1 I could only assume it was for shock value. I don’t pay attention to scouts I view them as politicians most of what’s coming out of their mouths are lies “ why would they tell you what they really think”

He gets money for clicks? It's a blog, so what does it get him using shock value? He seems to be pretty accurate at projecting draft positions.

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Anthony Richardson is the most raw like Josh Allen was, and said to have generational upside like Josh Allen was coming out. Gambling on Richardson 1st overall might not be so crazy, especially if he does well at the combine and face to face interviews with teams.

 

[Ozzy]

If Seattle ended up with Richardson I would be pretty stoked.

 

[TwilightError]

I would be stoked with landing any of the top four QB:s. I don’t even have a personal favorite yet. But if they draft one in the first round, it means Schneider is really high on him and that I trust.

I have watched all of them a bit and been reading some blogs. It seems to me they are just as much a gamble as any top defensive player. So I’d rather gamble on a QB. I have grown to like Geno but I don’t see him leading the Seahawks to a Super Bowl title. He just has not wowed me in the important moments. So I’m ready to watch the growing pains of a rookie, it’s hit and miss with any player but a QB can change a franchise completely. A single defender can’t.

But if they don’t take a QB and go with a really talented defender, I can live with that.

 

[Double Tribble]

I would be stoked with landing any of the top four QB:s. I don’t even have a personal favorite yet. But if they draft one in the first round, it means Schneider is really high on him and that I trust.

I have watched all of them a bit and been reading some blogs. It seems to me they are just as much a gamble as any top defensive player. So I’d rather gamble on a QB. I have grown to like Geno but I don’t see him leading the Seahawks to a Super Bowl title. He just has not wowed me in the important moments. So I’m ready to watch the growing pains of a rookie, it’s hit and miss with any player but a QB can change a franchise completely. A single defender can’t.

But if they don’t take a QB and go with a really talented defender, I can live with that.

This where I'm at also.

 

[olyfan63]

If the Hawks did take QB Anthony Richardson, say with their 1st or 2nd round pick, I'd see them using him in Wildcat type packages his first season or two, Taysom-Hill style, to get value out of him while he learns to be an NFL QB and read defenses. He is SO raw in the passing game and pre-snap reads. However, reports I've seen on his character and work habits are positive, so it's likely worth the gamble. He probably will come in with a chip on his shoulder, something to prove, so there's that.

I'm wondering how seriously the Hawks are looking at Will Levis. Decent chance he will be available at #5 if we don't trade down. Of course we take DT Jalen Carter if by some miracle he is available at #5. I have very mixed feelings about Levis.

Watching Stetson Bennett IV in the BCS playoff games, he's got everything you'd want in an NFL QB except no rifle arm and "too short". He could be worth a 5th rounder(?), to be Seattle's "Gary Kubiak" QB, a guy who can come in and win games when the starter is down, like Kubiak did for John Elway decades ago, invariably beating the Seahawks when he started. Loved that TD pass from Bennett in the title game where the TCU DB "gave up" on the play, because he knew Bennett would put it in a place where the DB would have no chance. Bennett is just so mentally tough and such a competitor, and he'll push any QB in front of him, and make them better. Hell, if Tua can rock the NFL like he did when healthy this year, that seems like what Bennett has the potential to also do. A modern day Fran Tarkenton? A Russell Wilson who can read defenses, but doesn't have as great a deep ball?