What is your gut telling you?

[keasley45]

The more I watched Geno and his last 5 1/2 games, the more confident I am about this season. Lock? not so much.

For whatever reasons, Geno is quietly having a renaissance of sort in those 5 and a half games. He, again quietly, corrected one of his weaknesses, ie turnovers. Last season, he was 5TDs to 1INT, that is really good. This preseason, he continued with his NO to INT campaign. His other known weaknesses, ie panic under pressure, is still a work in progress. Lacking in poise is hard to change, something you either have it (like Russ, Montana etc) or don't. But our OL is improving, Cross hasn't gave up any pressure 'so far', Phil Haynes has a very high pass blocking score on PFF, Lucas has been a very very good.

In 2021, Geno was much better than Russ, when both had clean pockets, 131 vs 111. View attachment 54210

If our running game can get going, Geno may just be as good as Jimmy G and surprise us with a winning season.

Amen.

I feel like I have to start every post with - this isn't a post saying Geno is incredible.

But... he has looked better and more poised than any tape I watched of him in his previous stints with NY.

And it you go back and watch the last preseason game from last year, I think he showed an ability to step up in the pocket, navigate it well. This was in my ' I'm cool on Geno and even a backup ' phase but I remember being impressed by a couple of plays where he looked to have a solid grasp of where the ball needed to go and didn't look at all tentative about getting it there. My dad calling me in the 2nd half and asking who it was we had playing in the game because how solid he looked, kind of reinforced that I at least wasn't seeing things.

I'm curious to see what the guy can do. It might be like Twisted and Pitt say - that he'll revert back to who he was. But that would take a reversion, because the ball he's playing now is not 2014 Geno Smith. It's not proven to be top 16 ball. But it also hasn't proven to be less than that.

Looking forward to the season starting and shedding some of this uncertainty.

 

[fullquartpress]

I feel like I have to start every post with - this isn't a post saying Geno is incredible.

But... he has looked better and more poised than any tape I watched of him in his previous stints with NY.

And it you go back and watch the last preseason game from last year, I think he showed an ability to step up in the pocket, navigate it well. This was in my ' I'm cool on Geno and even a backup ' phase but I remember being impressed by a couple of plays where he looked to have a solid grasp of where the ball needed to go and didn't look at all tentative about getting it there. My dad calling me in the 2nd half and asking who it was we had playing in the game because how solid he looked, kind of reinforced that I at least wasn't seeing things.

I'm curious to see what the guy can do. It might be like Twisted and Pitt say - that he'll revert back to who he was. But that would take a reversion, because the ball he's playing now is not 2014 Geno Smith. It's not even proven to be top 16 ball. But it also hasn't proven to be less than that.

Looking forward to the season starting and shedding some of this uncertainty.

I agree with most of your opinion, and think most observers continue to deny the possibility of change, which I don't deny.
Health is always a factor.
Geno is supposed to have learned something(s) from studying beside guys like Rivers and RW, and from being coached by a wide range of QB coaches and OCs.

 

[knownone]

I'm also on the Geno Express. He looks like a decent, starting-caliber QB. In addition, he seems like a better stylistic fit in Waldron's offense than Russell, which should open up space for DK and Fant over the middle.

I'm more concerned about the defense than the offense. If we have a top-15 defense, then the offense has enough firepower to make us a fringe playoff contender.

 

[Scout]

Nothing has changed to move the needle for me. This is a 7 to 9 win team based on talent level. The defense gelling is very important because to keep up with the league this team needs to have their front seven going downhill. Way too much talent in the front seven to have them sit back and wait for plays to develop.

The pundits are piling on with this team because there is no RW. But the talent base is still intact and with the additions from the draft I see real growth from the Hawks by seasons end.

That is one the advantages of picking higher in the draft as you have greater access to difference makers and role players that can hit the ground running year 1.

 

[toffee]

I feel like I have to start every post with - this isn't a post saying Geno is incredible.

But... he has looked better and more poised than any tape I watched of him in his previous stints with NY.

And it you go back and watch the last preseason game from last year, I think he showed an ability to step up in the pocket, navigate it well. This was in my ' I'm cool on Geno and even a backup ' phase but I remember being impressed by a couple of plays where he looked to have a solid grasp of where the ball needed to go and didn't look at all tentative about getting it there. My dad calling me in the 2nd half and asking who it was we had playing in the game because how solid he looked, kind of reinforced that I at least wasn't seeing things.

I'm curious to see what the guy can do. It might be like Twisted and Pitt say - that he'll revert back to who he was. But that would take a reversion, because the ball he's playing now is not 2014 Geno Smith. It's not even proven to be top 16 ball. But it also hasn't proven to be less than that.

Looking forward to the season starting and shedding some of this uncertainty.

Please allow me the pleasure to declare that Geno is incredible. Incredible for 5.5 games and achieved something unusual, ie CHANGE, when he should have set in his ways. What has changed? not his skills, but mindset, he is more patient and makes quicker decisions. OK he has a long way to go on decision making department, but he learned not to force it. He sure played well enough for a first ballot HOF QB to rush back early.

Can he keep it up? Don't know, but hope so. But a few things are in his favor:

1. Coaching staffs may give him the opportunities.
2. Hawks' OL has improved, he sucked under pressure, but he might face less this season.
3. We may have a legit running game.
4. Trust from teammates, this is invaluable.
5. Quiet encouragement from PFF, ok I just made this one up, but PFF rated his last two games at 90.3, that is elite. His 2021 season at 70.3 which is same as Russell Wilson and Jimmy G.

Fingers crossed, BUT LISTEN, I am not writing Geno Smith off. IF Geno is reading dot net, please keep doing what you are doing, don't give up.

 

[keasley45]

Cmon now....The Seahawks will fail until senile addle-minded Pete Carroll has been fired and the team is coached by greatest minds from this forum. The brilliant know-it-all .net folks tell you that.

Pete was like the dad in season two of Umbrella Academy. The kids kept him drugged and thereby muted his ability to function. Pete was under the spell of his qb.

Pete's 'insanity' was in selling the farm for Russ, and instead of mandating that the passing game improve on the arm of a franchise qb making 30+ mil a season, he pandered to the dude, let the rest of the team wilt, and strapped himself to winning offensive strategies that had no choice but to be a binary, run + deep ball solution, because there was no effective, consisten, chain moving short to mid-ball. And you can poo poo that assertion all you want. We didn't throw to the middle often because Russ wasn't effective there. He had to bail the pocket to see it. We didn't throw screens (something we throw 10 times a game when he's not in... and effectively) because it didn't work with his style of play.

There was no offense to switch to passing wise. It was PA, improv, or long shots.

I defy anyone who believes otherwise to explain why it wasbcommonplace for Pete to be beside himself last year and the year before, pleading for the offense to move the damn chains and take what was there instead of constantly chucking it. The solutions that allow an offense to function through the air when the long ball was taken away didn't work with Russ.

Again, simple calls like screens... they are precisely the tool you use to beat constant pressure and keep your qb clean. AND... we couldn't run them. WE DIDNT RUN A BASIC PLAY TO HELP ACCOMPLISH THE THING THAT RUSS COMPLAINED ABOUT MOST - KEEPING HIM FROM GETTING HIT. Why didn't we run them them then, but we run them now???

Please explain that to me. Because if there's no plausible alternative, than it HAS to be because we couldn't. And if we couldn't do that, than it stands to reason that there's more we had to abandon. A screen is a 101 level play in football. It's trickery. It's playing an opponents strength against them. And we did none of it.

So the 'offense sucks' with meddling Pete narrative... he might not be the most progressive (he's not dumb), but he has stated a few times now that if the qb is effective running the offense, that he can do what he wants. Take care of the ball, distribute it effectively, and take your shots when they are there.

The last guy we had did 1 and 3 at a HOF level, but went rogue to accomplish #2.

So, gut... if we can manage the game and let the OC do what he's paid to do, we might might just develop a more varied game than the one we've seen. Short screens, mid screens, mid crosses, seams... THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD... these are all things defenses haven't had to account for. Geno has yet to show he can't hit those throws. And to the detractors... if Lock sucks, but he excells at PA, than how hard can it be? The PA will be there for the taking with a running game that is reliable and even more so, with a defense that has to cover all the routes and the entire field for the whole game and not just during a free for all, 2 minute drill.

 

[keasley45]

It weird how we keep telling people what will happen, it happens, then they move the goalpost.

I keep seeing things like people saying 'Pete will get the most from this team' (that is not an accomplishment, because there is no way to measure it, it is a subjective assessment).
So I will make a declarative statement.

#1 (Almost assured)
Pete will never win another playoff game in the NFL for the rest of his coaching career. That is a reasonable prediction, and if true, it is hard to be excited about keeping him. Because I expect that not this year, but next year, Russ will. And he will continue to win them in additional years.

#2 (Not a given but very likely)
Pete will leave this team in worse shape (in terms of roster strength/viability) than when he got here, as he did at USC.

But this is about the expectations for this season, which is what the QB controversy is about. So what are the #s?

For Detractors:
What would make you jump on the Pete train if you are off it and jump off it if you are on it?
How many wins would get you completely on board?

For me?
Top 5 Defense or 10+ wins or 2 playoffs wins (in any order)


For Supporters:
What would make you want to see change?
How many wins would make you want to go in a different direction than Pete?

(The whole, who else question is a canard. Before you fix a problem, you must admit you have one.)

And what reasoning are you using? Pete won a playoff game with an over the hill Matt Hasselbeck and a defense full of startups that hadn't arrived yet and no names. And we beat the Superbowl favorites that year... for no other reason than he got a less talented team to play above their pads.

I'm not sure where you get your news, but even the analysts who joke on our qb competition call our roster 'special' and quietly scary ( didn't make that up) . That we need to get a QB, but then we are right back on it. So what's Pete gonna do to, as you say, leave the roster the way he left USC...cut everybody we have now and swap rosters with the Jags? The disdain is deep.

It's funny, when a player who's on you blacklist plays well in the preseason... its only the preseason, and he'll likely suck in the regular season, so we are doomed.

When the team plays poorly in the preseason... the narrative is that the Seahawks NEVER track differently in the regular season than they do in the preseason... so we are doomed.

 

[toffee]

I'm also on the Geno Express. He looks like a decent, starting-caliber QB. In addition, he seems like a better stylistic fit in Waldron's offense than Russell, which should open up space for DK and Fant over the middle.

I'm more concerned about the defense than the offense. If we have a top-15 defense, then the offense has enough firepower to make us a fringe playoff contender.

Our defense was top 15, ok, 11th in points allowed. Last time I checked, points were the only thing that counts in the end of the game. PFF rated our 2021 defense 15th overall, but I will stick to 11th points allowed. Remember our defense were on the field forever? Our time of possession sucked! Do you have reason to believe that our defense will regress?

I am counting on a top 10 points allowed for 2022.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Keasely,

Come on. I suspect most people would rather the 2010 roster than this one. Credit where credit is due, Carroll arranged trades that brought in guys like Lynch. But let's be realistic.

If you are right, then the downtrend Carroll & this team has been on for 5 years can be stymied. Nobody wants you to be wrong because nobody (of the Seahawk fans) wants to see us lose.
But for the past 5 years, it has been a flurry of sometimes plausible excuses. The 2 constants have been Russ and Pete.
Otherwise, it feels like we are past the excuses stage.

Now Russ is gone. So it is either Pete and things continue or it was Russ and they improve.

But

Yes

Things that suck for us in the preseason continue to be problems for us all year long. Very rarely is that different.

 

[keasley45]

Keasely,

Come on. I suspect most people would rather the 2010 roster than this one. Credit where credit is due, Carroll arranged trades that brought in guys like Lynch. But let's be realistic.

If you are right, then the downtrend Carroll & this team has been on for 5 years can be stymied. Nobody wants you to be wrong because nobody (of the Seahawk fans) wants to see us lose.
But for the past 5 years, it has been a flurry of sometimes plausible excuses. The 2 constants have been Russ and Pete.
Otherwise, it feels like we are past the excuses stage.

Now Russ is gone. So it is either Pete and things continue or it was Russ and they improve.

But

Yes

Things that suck for us in the preseason continue to be problems for us all year long. Very rarely is that different.

Care to do a side by side comp of the 2010 roster and this one?

 

[TwistedHusky]

I would rather wait until 2011 when I had Sherman.
But I will take a team with Lynch, Kam, Earl and have Matt (even an aging Matt) as my QB over this current roster, even if it had some holes.

So you are right, probably not the 2010 roster. Would have to 2011.

 

[keasley45]

That's our 2010 starting roster.

On the o-line, outside of Okung, we had:

Stacy Andrews... who the F was she?
Ben Hamilton
Chris Spencer
And Sean Flippn Locklear...

Nope

Wrs...
Deion Butler
Mike Williams

Te
Chris Baker
John Carlson

Rb
BEASTMODE

Qb
Hass

Of the entire offense, give me Lynch.

And before you say Hass would beat out Geno or Lock... look at his TD to INT ratio...
Here. I'll do it for you. 12TDs, 17 ints.

Defense?
Kentwan Balmer
Brandon Mebane
Chris Clemmons
Colin Cole - again... who the F?

LB
David Hawthorne
Lofa
Aaron Curry... the infamous 'can't miss', consensus pick...

Cb

Tru & Jennings

Safety

Lawyer milloy
Earl Thomas

Give me Thomas, Clemmons, Mebane and Lofa

So of the 2010 squad, I count one player on offense, an 4 on defense that are arguably better than what we currently have.

We beat NO with a guy named Stacy blocking for Lynch, Aaron Curry missing tackles left and right, and 15 other has beens or other teams backups.

You don't do that unless you have a coaching staff that knows what the hell they're doing.

No way anyone else gets THAT team to beat the hands down, odds on Superbowl favorite.

And he did THAT with a squad easily 1/3rd as talented. IF THAT.

 

[keasley45]

Our QB that year threw 12Tds to 17ints. Wanna make a bet neither Geno or Lock will be THAT bad?

THAT TEAM WON 7 GAMES...

SEVEN! And upset the superbowl favorite.

That team had no right to win 5 games.

 

[TwistedHusky]

But it is not a fair question Keasely. That was was the reason for the sarcastic comment. ALMOST EVERY Seahawk fan would take that roster back, if it gave you Lynch, Kam, & Earl.

I would happily have a zero win season if you assured me Lynch and 3/4 of the LOB in their prime were back.

Way unfair.

I would pick that roster 10 of 10 if you gave me back Lynch and Kam, 2 of my most beloved Seahawks ever. Right up there with Walt.

So yes, please make the trade. Get our legends back.

 

[keasley45]

But it is not a fair question Keasely. That was was the reason for the sarcastic comment. ALMOST EVERY Seahawk fan would take that roster back, if it gave you Lynch, Kam, & Earl.

I would happily have a zero win season if you assured me Lynch and 3/4 of the LOB in their prime were back.

Way unfair.

I would pick that roster 10 of 10 if you gave me back Lynch and Kam, 2 of my most beloved Seahawks ever. Right up there with Walt.

So yes, please make the trade. Get our legends back.

Twisted...

Those guys weren't yet key contributors.

You made the argument as though what we fielded then was superior to what we have now, as to negate what Pete accomplished. I characterized that roster as has beens and other teams backups. The fact that Sherm and Kam were waiting in the wings is immaterial to what we were talking about.

That teams starting talent flat sucked, but for half dozen players... maybe. And we won 7 games because of what... their skill, luck? No. We won because of the coaching and strategy. And I stand by my claim that the only place that roster would have beat the best team in the league was in Seattle. The only place that roster wins 7 games... Seattle.

And if you honestly think any coach could have won more with that group, how can you peg this year's roster for less wins than what that group of 'who dat's' did??

 

[toffee]

I would rather wait until 2011 when I had Sherman.
But I will take a team with Lynch, Kam, Earl and have Matt (even an aging Matt) as my QB over this current roster, even if it had some holes.

So you are right, probably not the 2010 roster. Would have to 2011.

Let me refresh 2010 memories:

1. We came from a 5-11 2009, we hired a HC with meh NFL record, having been fired twice.
2. We drafted a undersized FS that national media felt was a reach, a SS that was oversized and national expert again didn't like.
3. We drafted a LT in Oklung, we drafted Cross
4. Our franchise LT retires, DBrown was released
5. We signed Charlie Whitehurst to create a QB competition with Hass.
6. OK an aging Hass that had one more full season of play in him. ie NO FUTURE.

4 games into the season, we signed a RB, Lynch that rushed for 450 yards in 2009 average 3.8 yards per, and 164 yards in 2010, with a reputation to be difficult; A head coach that was viewed as a has been with meh record, frankly nobody wants. 9ers sure passed on him. An aging QB has had little left, a Whitehurst that's worse than Lock or Geno.

No, I won't swap 2022 with 2010, sorry.

 

[scutterhawk]

It's clear where your emotions are. Enjoy!

They have PRECONCIEVED NOTIONS, and I really don't give a sh!t that they try'n wordsmith their way around their prejudice's towards Pete because of his AGE, they are being PUNKS towards ANYONE who comes to the defense of Pete & guys like myself WHO IS MUCH OLDER, NOT someone that I'd share a #^&king beer with, eh?

 

[TwistedHusky]

I guess.
I would rather the team with 3 borderline HOFs.
Kam, Earl, and Lynch.
Hell, I think that team had Clemons and Mebane too.

 

[Mike D in 332]

Lagartixa,
I agree with about half of your post. Brady finding a stacked team was a driver to Wilson's decision. Completely agree with that part.

But I don't think Wilson wants all the credit for the success here, since the success hinged on the LOB. Wilson probably wants the benefit for the doubt for his coach holding him back, which seems reasonable.
And I wouldn't call the Bronco stacked. They have a decent line. Middling WRs. Average TEs. Decent RB. Good to very good defense but not exceptional, and that was with a defensive HC - probably worse without him.

Also, Wilson is very focused on building his brand outside of football, there are a lot more opportunities to do that from Seattle than Denver. I am betting if the team made him the figurehead like Aaron Rodgers, and wrapped everything around him - (ie brought in an exceptional offensive HC) he would have stayed. This is conjecture but so is your assertion that Wilson was gone regardless.
By most logic, Wilson shouldn't have even extended the first time - but he did. So major change like moving to another franchise is a bigger decision than staying put and building everything around what you already know works.

If we had refused to extend Pete, as we should have, I am betting we would not only still have Wilson but have a much better trajectory forward.

I disagree with your take that extending Pete was a mistake. I’m actually stunned by how much vitriol there is for Pete on this site. He brought this team to the promisedland and if it weren’t for one **** up at the end of Super Bowl 49 he would have two Super Bowls. If your franchise QB would buy into your head coache’s plan you would be very successful but when your franchise QB thinks that he needs to be putting up stats to make his Hall of Fame case or his case as one of the best QBs of all time then you lose the team concept. It takes an entire team to be successful in the NFL.

 

[Mike D in 332]

Pitt -

Russ has been squirming and butt hurt since John and Pete showed interest in Allen and Mahomes. He gained control of the narrative about any criticism that might have been pointed at him for his play andnwhy they were looking in the first place, by launching a full on campaign to sh!t on the HC and FO and blame his struggles and lack of titles on them. ie - not aggressive enough on offense... not giving him time to pass, etc. Etc. Etc. He was being second guessed as the #1 and couldn't handle it.

An anonymous source from the LOB stated EXACTLY that in the Athletic article last year, so it's not some wild conspiracy theory. Russ didn't like being called out. And you need not look any further than his behavior in post game pressers last year to get a read on how obstinate he'd become.

Everything from 2019 forward was him positioning himself for what he knew was coming. John wasn't going to pay him. And not paying him would lead to questions as to why on earth FO wouldn't pay a guy like Russ, who by all accounts was an elite, Rodgers / Brady esque player. The answer that would have been presented and talked about in the media for months of failed negotiation would be people actually digging into his play and elevating doubt about how 'elite' he really is. BTW, the only Elite qb of this era to be questioned re his 'eliteness'... #3.

He defended his legacy in not allowing the true, public evaluation to really take hold ( but the questions are still there, even outside of Seattle) and maintained his squeaky clean image by playing the denial game right up to the post game presser where he denied knowing until it happened. Although it's been confirmed he discussed his pending departure two weeks prior...

What happened between. Russ and the FO was a classic case of... I knew you weren't in love with me anymore, so I broke up with you first.

Pete did himself Zero favors by not standing up to the nonsense 4 years ago and even earlier as the LOB and spirit of the team was slowly fractured and broken by his desire to build a team around a protected qb, rather than the competitive philosophy he pioneered that has been since copied by every team in the league. He made it, and then walked away from it.

So the reason the team has a swagger again is because that attitude is back. The swagger is back, and above all, the competitive spirit is back. So whether Geno or Lock are the answer this year is immaterial. This team will be good agai, sooner, rather than later. And they'll succeed on the formula that only stopped working because it was allowed to be hijacked by its creator.

But the ownership and John were very clear that they were done with the BS. And now, from ownership to John, to Pete, offense and defense, this team is a TEAM again. The sideshow surrounding the QB is in Denver now. Just check your fav media outlet for the latest updates.

Our QBs might only be a bridge, but at least them saying they're bought into the team isn't just lip service.

I love Russ and I love this post! Go Hawks!!!