This team loses way too often due to coaching mistakes

[Sgt. Largent]

No he is pointing out Pete Carroll was dealt pocket aces, and squandered it. He had a defense that I would take over any in the history of the game when factoring in modernity, and a HoF QB. He had both. The Patriots & Steelers both had these, and they got a cabinet full of Superbowls to show for it.

The 90's Cowboys who the L.O.B. Seahawks are most similar to got 3 Superbowls out of it with that stacked deck.
.

Apples and oranges.

There's a reason the Cowboy dynasty faded after the salary cap was implemented in the mid 90's, they could no longer just pay all their stars with max contracts..........and hey, lets just go sign Deion Sanders too.

Same with the Niners dynasty before them.

So the only thing Pete squandered was hanging onto our fading stars too long and not rebuilding the defense sooner with the next wave of young hungry players.

Squandered? Nope, it's just the state of the league, it's VERY hard to stay on top and win SB's. That's why since the cap was implemented only Belichick and the Patriots have figured out how to win more than a couple SB's, and they're an outlier that probably will never happen again. Because that's the way the NFL wants it, they want parity.

L.O.B. Seahawks had 4 straight years of #1 DVOA finishes which had never been done. The only team to come close to that level of success is the 90's Cowboys. 3 of 4 years of #1 DVOA.

The Seahawks just don't have the hardware to show off their dominance.

Yep, probably should have won that 2015 SB...............against the greatest dynasty in the history of the league with the smartest coach, with the entire LOB injured, Lane and Avril out of the game and Simon getting abused like a red headed stepchild the entire 2nd half by the greatest QB of all time. Yet still we almost won.

But yeah, Pete's a bad coach? Perspective dude.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We had Lynch and Wilson then. We should have won it.

(I still think the decision that lost the game for us was not the idiotic decision not to run Lynch at the EZ but not to have Burley as playoff eligible. He was money against slot guys all year long and we got killed by those guys when he was not in. That extra corner would have been the difference and I will never know why Pete thought Simon, with much less experience, made sense on the roster when Burley was left off it. )

It isn't that Pete is a 'bad coach'. He just has a few serious flaws that keep his teams from being as good as they could be.

 

[Fade]

But yeah, Pete's a bad coach?

You're asking yourself made up questions now? You're making things up in your head. I never said Pete was a bad coach.

Perspective dude.

The irony.

The only team to show that level of dominance over an extended period of time, and only win 1 Superbowl is the Seahawks. The rest won multiple. They are the outlier. :2thumbs:

 

[mrt144]

We had Lynch and Wilson then. We should have won it.

(I still think the decision that lost the game for us was not the idiotic decision not to run Lynch at the EZ but not to have Burley as playoff eligible. He was money against slot guys all year long and we got killed by those guys when he was not in. That extra corner would have been the difference and I will never know why Pete thought Simon, with much less experience, made sense on the roster when Burley was left off it. )

It isn't that Pete is a 'bad coach'. He just has a few serious flaws that keep his teams from being as good as they could be.

And the only reason we're giving Pete the stick for some of these flaws and not say Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin is that we aren't rooting for the Chiefs and/or Steelers respectively.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It isn't that Pete is a 'bad coach'. He just has a few serious flaws that keep his teams from being as good as they could be.

I have a buddy that now lives in Boston. He thinks after last year's SB loss and the Patriot's looking sluggish this year that it's time for Belichick to go. Belichick.

You don't think Falcon fans think Quinn messed up, or any SB loser fanbase?

Pete wins more than he loses, to the tune of being in the top 10% win percentage all time, and he's one of the greatest defensive minds and motivators in the history of football.........and he's our coach.

You guys are looking for perfection, and that doesn't exist in sports. You want a coach that motivates, prepares and mines talent that gives you the best chance to win. We have that, not sure who else you think could do better at this point in our franchise's history.

Mark my words, when Pete's gone, you will miss him. These are the best years that probably will never be duplicated again in either of our lifetimes.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's one of the best coaches of all time imo. Gets a little too stubborn at times, but many many many coaches do.

 

[fire_marshall_bill]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

 

[olyfan63]

We had Lynch and Wilson then. We should have won it.

(I still think the decision that lost the game for us was not the idiotic decision not to run Lynch at the EZ but not to have Burley as playoff eligible. He was money against slot guys all year long and we got killed by those guys when he was not in. That extra corner would have been the difference and I will never know why Pete thought Simon, with much less experience, made sense on the roster when Burley was left off it. )

It isn't that Pete is a 'bad coach'. He just has a few serious flaws that keep his teams from being as good as they could be.

I also felt that Marcus Burley being left inactive cost us SB49.
Was it playoff ineligible? I thought it was a game-day inactive status.

In any case, SB49 was as much a preparation and strategy caused loss, with the Burley inactive/Simon active as the huge glaring blunder. Plus Simon being injured as well. (shoulder issue IIRC)

8 Million Ways to Lose an NFL Playoff Game... this could easily be a movie.
Failure to adjust quickly enough (this year), failure to have the right bottom of roster players active during a given week, and did I mention INJURIES?? In SB49, Jeremy Lane blowing an ACL and shattering a forearm after picking off Brady in the end zone; this year, Jordan Simmons blowing a knee a few weeks before a playoff game; yes, JORDAN SIMMONS, with him healthy and available, playing over a gimpy Fluker, we run on the Cowboys and win that game. A coach can lose games in the offseason too. So many ways to lose... Why did Pete fire the whole Strength and Conditioning staff already this offseason? What will he do this year about the Special Teams issues? Those types of things can matter as much as the game-day strategy adjustment failures like the Dallas game. Hell, Holmgren/Ruskell and the Etric Pruitt man-off-the-street depth after Safety Marquand Manuel went down in SBXL was a big part of the loss; the Steelers saw that weakness and rapidly adjusted their plans to take advantage of it, and *executed*. (Randle-El TD Pass)

Last year it was ditching Cable and Bevell. Big improvement. Especially bringing Solari in. Will the S&C change result in a better outcome, fewer injuries, maybe Pocic not getting overpowered all the time? That could easily result in a couple more wins and a playoff win. So Pete is improving on his excessive loyalty to staff causing him to overlook staff performance failures that impact play on the field. Keeping my fingers crossed...

 

[mrt144]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

Bevell, for all his faults as OC, at least had developed some intuition as to when to unleash the dragon.

 

[olyfan63]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

Bevell, for all his faults as OC, at least had developed some intuition as to when to unleash the dragon.

Now seeing how badly Cable's trash OL coaching and schemes messed up the 'Hawks O, it's much harder to fairly and accurately evaluate Bevell's time with the Seahawks. Cable's tenure is much easier to evaluate now that we've seen how it coulda, shoulda looked.

 

[mrt144]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

Bevell, for all his faults as OC, at least had developed some intuition as to when to unleash the dragon.

Now seeing how badly Cable's trash OL coaching and schemes messed up the 'Hawks O, it's much harder to fairly and accurately evaluate Bevell's time with the Seahawks. Cable's tenure is much easier to evaluate now that we've seen how it coulda, shoulda looked.

Yeah, I feel kinda bad about how harsh I was on him, but feel fully vindicated with my Cable ire.

 

[Seymour]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

Bevell, for all his faults as OC, at least had developed some intuition as to when to unleash the dragon.

Now seeing how badly Cable's trash OL coaching and schemes messed up the 'Hawks O, it's much harder to fairly and accurately evaluate Bevell's time with the Seahawks. Cable's tenure is much easier to evaluate now that we've seen how it coulda, shoulda looked.

Yeah, I feel kinda bad about how harsh I was on him, but feel fully vindicated with my Cable ire.

Exactly why I said Cable must be first the last 4 years. Bevell was no wiz kid but he also had no real prayer with Fable chaos all around him.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

Bevell, for all his faults as OC, at least had developed some intuition as to when to unleash the dragon.

Congrats on the first Bevell compliment in the history of .Net.

Si, tell mrt what he's won!

 

[mrt144]

It always amazes me how people lose it after the team just went on a 10-4 streak.

His philosophy is to build a good or preferably great defense and run a lot, i.e. take time off the clock to aid his defense. It has worked. I didn't like Bevell at all, but even he didn't screw it up too badly. You need things like at least okay run blocking and a good running back. They didn't have those things the last few years.

Bevell, for all his faults as OC, at least had developed some intuition as to when to unleash the dragon.

Congrats on the first Bevell compliment in the history of .Net.

Si, tell mrt what he's won!

No whammies no whammies no whammies!

 

[chris98251]

Pete does value the passing game, he does it with shots down field, why did he go out and get Harvin, Marshall , Graham etc ?

This is the control part that bugs us about Pete, he said he was going to be more hands off and it was pretty much the case until season 2 or the playoffs started and the old dog went with his old tricks again.

 

[mrt144]

Pete does value the passing game, he does it with shots down field, why did he go out and get Harvin, Marshall , Graham etc ?

This is the control part that bugs us about Pete, he said he was going to be more hands off and it was pretty much the case until season 2 or the playoffs started and the old dog went with his old tricks again.

The non congruence of personnel to game plan and tactics at times...

You've made me slightly perturbed man!

 

[Spin Doctor]

Bill Belicheck is actually pretty crafty as a head coach. Unlike Pete he has the ability to adapt and improvise. He may not be an innovator per say, but he is quick to grab the innovations, and plays from other teams and implement them into his schemes. Bill Belicheck is constantly adapting, and evolving. He isn't beholden to one scheme or philosophy. He knows how to attack you from multiple different angles. One game he'll come out looking like Andy Reid is coaching, and the next it'll look like a Schottenheimer, run it up your gut special, and impose your will on others. He adapts the personnel to fit his players strengths and weaknesses. No two Patriot teams look alike in their approach.

This is Carroll's greatest weakness, especially on offense. He is rigid with his approach, and he refuses to adapt, and evolve. We're using a passing offense that looks straight out of the 70s, pre west coast offense.

Mark my words, under Pete Carroll we will never get a SuperBowl, ever again, period. He has peaked, and now he's just another guy. We'll get consistently 10 wins, maybe 9 in an off year, but it will be one and done, or like this season, a straight up loss in the first game. He is a stubborn fool who refuses to see his short comings, and would rather lose his way, than win with another approach.

I'm frustrated. Carroll squandered one of the best teams of all time, and what we've been witnessing is a slow decline into mediocrity. This is post 2005 Holmgren we're dealing with now, and it is as plain as the day to see. People talk about the 2000 Ravens, and 1985 Bears, the Seahawks were right up there with them. The biggest difference is that we didn't have Dilfer, or and oft injured McMahon as our Quarterbacks. Instead we had a Quarterback that while flawed, and unconventional was one of the most efficient QB's of all time, and has been at least a top 10 QB since his rookie year. Dilfer and McMahon? Career journeyman.

Respect you as a poster Spin, but at this point you are basically whining that we are not the Patriots or Steelers. What you are describing is the reality of the salary cap in football. Teams can longer dominate with rosters that are stacked for years on end. Each team has to retool their rosters and if you think that the roster retooling done by our team this past season with the record we ended up with isn't above the actual talent level on the field, I don't know what to tell you. That roster with say 98% of the other coaches in the league don't win more than six games.

The Seahawks roster was underrated coming into the season. I personally predicted anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7 with a chance at a playoff birth if one of our wide receivers step up, and we get a running game.

As far at being mad because we aren't the Patriots, I don't think you understand how good the Seahawks roster was. As FADE said it was number one in DVOA for four years. He absolutely squandered a golden opportunity that only comes once in a blue moon. I'm glad we won a Super Bowl, but it is also very frustrating to see how the team was handled in the subsequent years.

We had the historically good defense combined with one of the best QB's in the NFL, rarely do those two ever meet. We should have more than one ring to show for it.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Asking for extra SB rings might be a bit much, even for me.

But asking the team not to be a laughingstock in the playoffs and at least get to another Division or Conference game seems fair. Wins the playoffs that are not wildcard games should not be this crazy ask when you are literally one of the best rosters in football for YEARS.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'm frustrated. Carroll squandered one of the best teams of all time, and what we've been witnessing is a slow decline into mediocrity.

Can I ask what your pre-season expectations of this team was back in August? Jesus, we just went 10-6, made the playoffs in a rebuild year. Sorry, "re-tool."

Slow decline into mediocrity? I have news for you, this is the BEST it's ever going to be in our lifetime, so knock off the hyperbolic hand wringing and enjoy the ride. It's freaking HARD to win the NFL, REALLY hard.

We are one of the lucky few, look around the league. From top to bottom we're a top 2-3 organization with a fantastic ownership group, GM, coach that give us great chances to make the playoffs each and every year and hopefully continue to rebuild the next great Hawk team to get back to another SB.

Have a little perspective, and stop dwelling on one playoff game, or one negative aspect of how Pete coaches. He's sure as hell not perfect, but he's a great coach. Have faith, it's so much more fun.

I thought we were going to go anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7 with a chance at a playoff birth if we established a running game, and one of our wide receivers stepped up. The team wasn't as bad as people thought. Many of these guys were shown to be decent players in 2017. Key pieces such as Reed, Griffin (though he regressed), Carson, and our safeties actually played decent football whenever they were in. the year prior. Coleman was also a sleeper that played a role as nickle cornerback this year. In 2017 he ranked as one of the highest rated nickle cornerbacks in terms of DVOA.

As far as Super Bowl goes, not ever going to happen underneath Pete. As I said, he's going to be a 10-6, 9-7 sort of coach from here on out. That is how it has been since 2015, there is nothing to suggest things are going to change. We're under .500 in the playoffs since 2015. His issue is, while he's really good at setting up a program, he is not a great in game coach when he gets thrown off his game plan. He also is particularly stubborn when it comes to his offenses. His time management especially is atrocious. I feel as if he needs to become a Tomlin type of a coach. Tomlin sets up the overall program, and is obviously the leader. He sets up the overall game plan, and direction of the team, and just leaves his coordinators to do their jobs. I think Carroll would be successful in this type of a role.

Unfortunately though Carroll is a tease. He is like a sexy woman that acts like she wants to do the dirty deed with you. She keeps giving you the signs, but in the end she is just teasing, and toying with you. This is Carroll's coaching regime. So capable in many ways, yet inept in others. People keep talking about how we got to the Super Bowl last time, and "the winning formula" but that was 6 years ago. The situation was much different. It was a combination of some of the best draft classes of all time, and rookie contracts all around combined with a large sum of cash that allowed us to pick up Bennett, Avril, and a handful of role players, plus a defensive scheme that was unconventional in the NFL. The likely hood of that ever happening again? Slim to none.

 

[chris98251]

Asking for extra SB rings might be a bit much, even for me.

But asking the team not to be a laughingstock in the playoffs and at least get to another Division or Conference game seems fair. Wins the playoffs that are not wildcard games should not be this crazy ask when you are literally one of the best rosters in football for YEARS.

Trying to figure out how a team that was not suppose to even sniff a playoff at the beginning of the season goes to Dallas with two injured O lineman and other banged up players and comes within a few plays of winning and only losing by a couple makes them a laughing stock.


I think if you want to look at who is the laughing stock it's all those that said we would be a bottom feeder this season.