Sigh..It's only fair. Draft capital needs to go to Pete's successor

[Sports Hernia]

I'm not sure that's a good idea, probably be 2nd guessing everything, probably best the the new coaching doesn't have anyone looking over their shoulder.

Let him second guess. His input will be heard and considered, but not necessarily acted on.

 

[morgulon1]

I don't know as much about football as most of you, but as a hopelessly die hard fan, I want what's best for the Seahawks.

Early in the season after an impressive start, I was hopeful that this could be a very short term turnaround. It is clear though that there are more holes than I anticipated. The D needs an overhaul, long term questions at QB, still pass protection issues.

This is going to take longer than a year or two to get back to SB contention. At 71, Pete isn't the guy to lead a long term rebuild.

We have unprecedented draft capital. It's only fair that the regime and personnel that will succeed Pete have these picks at their disposal to set in motion their rebuild plan. I'd like to see JS have carte blanche to select who he wants knowing Pete doesn't have a veto power. I hope Pete comes to the same conclusion, and gracefully steps down to take his place amongst legends like Knox and Holmgren.

I know this is a regurgitation of a million other Pete threads, but it's just my two cents.

Sad to say , I think I'm about to that point. Grampy needs to enjoy his twilight years with his wife. Enjoy those millions he's made. He would've went back to the SB by now if he was going to.
But who do they replace him with ?

 

[morgulon1]

This team has many problems, but I don't have Pete high on that list. If he felt it was his time, I'd respect that and hope we hire someone innovative to take over (not Payton; I can't believe how overrated that guy is), but I still think Pete can coach a championship team. We need to give him a championship roster and there are serious issues with this defense that are preventing that. Not that I'm saying we should fire Schneider either, we just have some serious holes that need to be figured out in the front seven. The Adams trade was clearly a huge mistake, which I hoped they learned from. I mean, I still think Adams is a good/great player when he's healthy, but that was clearly a move that never should have been made. Whoever is coaching our team next year needs to find ways of getting after the QB better.

The messed up thing is that PC put that roster together, the drafts , the trades , FA signings.
My theory is PC would take over and strong arm Schneider , keeping him from doing his job. PC seems like the kind of dude that's a little too smart for his own good .

 

[TraderGary]

I’m in but…

Getting either of those guys wouldn’t be a chip shot.

I actually think it would be pretty easy to lure a sought after coach to the Hawks. Rabid fan base, nice stadium, some building blocks already in place at key positions like both offensive tackles, a future all-pro CB and another solid one....... and I think Tre Brown could also be a shutdown corner if given the opportunity. Not sure why he's not seeing the field unless he's still injured, but that's a subject for another thread.

And most importantly, the new coach would have tons of draft capital next April to build the team in his vision including who he would want as his future franchise QB.

I think the job would be very attractive.

 

[TraderGary]

This blame Pete thing going on all of a sudden is bizarre, and this is from someone who was all aboard the fire Pete bandwagon last offseason. We were SUPPOSED to look ugly like this in 2022. Yall do realize how much dead money we have from the Russ trade this year, right? Blame Pete and fire him if he botches the draft next year and the team still looks bad in 2023, but this year? That 6-3 start got people seeing delusions of grandeur.

You do realize the gravity of that statement I highlighted don't you? They simply cannot afford to botch this upcoming draft. It's probably the most important draft in franchise history and could be franchise altering. And that's what makes me really nervous.

Yes, they had a good to great draft this year, but I believe as do many others that JS was the primary architect of that draft based on reasons I won't go into here but has been discussed in other threads.

I fear that PC will view this draft as his last opportunity to make one more run at a championship and seal his legacy and will want to take control of the picks. I think that would be a disaster.

They absolutely cannot screw this one up.

Also, given our draft capital next year, I think this would be a perfect opportunity for a new HC to begin to build the team he envisions. If you keep Pete for another year and then he decides to step away or gets fired, who's to say those extremely valuable picks they used would fit the schemes the new HC wants to run. We'd basically be starting all over again. The timing is right to make the move at the end of this season.

 

[morgulon1]

You do realize the gravity of that statement I highlighted don't you? They simply cannot afford to botch this upcoming draft. It's probably the most important draft in franchise history and could be franchise altering. And that's what makes me really nervous.

Yes, they had a good to great draft this year, but I believe as do many others that JS was the primary architect of that draft based on reasons I won't go into here but has been discussed in other threads.

I fear that PC will view this draft as his last opportunity to make one more run at a championship and seal his legacy and will want to take control of the picks. I think that would be a disaster.

They absolutely cannot screw this one up.

Also, given our draft capital next year, I think this would be a perfect opportunity for a new HC to begin to build the team he envisions. If you keep Pete for another year and then he decides to step away or gets fired, who's to say those extremely valuable picks they used would fit the schemes the new HC wants to run. We'd basically be starting all over again. The timing is right to make the move at the end of this season.

Pete hired John and is technically his boss . Is this correct? I'm honestly asking .
I think PC has had his hand in the pie for years and has been the major reason the Seahawks have been where they've been for the last decade.

 

[Donn2390]

This is Pete's team, all of the naysayers in here need to sit back and relax. he isn't going anywhere and will continue to be successful until he decides to retire..
Too much bluster and BS being spread, must be lots of farmers in here..

 

[Spin Doctor]

This is Pete's team, all of the naysayers in here need to sit back and relax. he isn't going anywhere and will continue to be successful until he decides to retire..
Too much bluster and BS being spread, must be lots of farmers in here..

Pete has not been very successful in the last 6 years. If we don't make the playoffs this year, we will have been out 3 out of the last 6 years. Our drafts have been extremely mediocre, which is why we're in the spot that we are in now. Our record in the playoffs since 2015 is very bad. The record is 3-5, should be 2-6 if not for Blair Walsh granting the Seahawks a free win in 2015. Mind you in 2015 we had the number one scoring defense and a top 10 offense.

We don't have a single signature win since our Super Bowl appearances. We've beaten Teddy Bridgewater, a Stafford with a sprained ankle and damaged throwing shoulder and 40 year old Luke McCown.

Carroll is an elite manager of a franchise and he's great at building culture, but he also has a ton of downsides too and he's getting up there in age.

Carroll deserves quite a bit of criticism for the sorry state of the franchise right now and the losing streak we're on. Most of these things are NOT new problems. After 10+ years the line still can't communicate properly, the plays get in at the last second, no tempo or urgency on offense. Given how things started at the beginning of the year there is only one place to point the finger for that lack of tempo on offense. The defenses tackling and lack of development have been a thing for years now as well.

I think it's time that we start asking some questions here.

 

[Mike D in 332]

“It’s only fair” lol. First off, fairness has nothing to with this major decision. Secondly, it is only fair to let the guys who attained the picks to make them. Third, was it fair for PC and JD to have to make 250+ transactions in their first year just to field a competitive team?
The short memories around here make me laugh. Take a look at how many teams just added a new coach and we’re I’m mediately successful.
It took wonderboy, MCvay half a decade and mortgaging the future cap to get one superbowl win. Shanahan? 5 years and counting. Reid? Needed Mahomes before he got one. Ridiculous to me.
I’m all for getting everyone on board with Pete’s vision and going all in on building a new sloberknocker to punish the NFL. It’s not guaranteed, but it’s more likely than starting over with a whole new regime. Look at Denver, this isn’t a video game.

 

[Rainger]

I don't know as much about football as most of you, but as a hopelessly die hard fan, I want what's best for the Seahawks.

Early in the season after an impressive start, I was hopeful that this could be a very short term turnaround. It is clear though that there are more holes than I anticipated. The D needs an overhaul, long term questions at QB, still pass protection issues.

This is going to take longer than a year or two to get back to SB contention. At 71, Pete isn't the guy to lead a long term rebuild.

We have unprecedented draft capital. It's only fair that the regime and personnel that will succeed Pete have these picks at their disposal to set in motion their rebuild plan. I'd like to see JS have carte blanche to select who he wants knowing Pete doesn't have a veto power. I hope Pete comes to the same conclusion, and gracefully steps down to take his place amongst legends like Knox and Holmgren.

I know this is a regurgitation of a million other Pete threads, but it's just my two cents.

All this speculation regarding Pete leaving or being fired is just crazy talk.

Pete is not going anywhere until HE decides to or because of a health issue.

JS is NOT PC's superior, he has no authority to fire Pete. I will put money that no way Jody is going to fire Pete unless the team became a 2 win team for the next 2 years and that wont happen.

Pete wants another SB before he retires and wants to see what all this draft capital can build. I would be flabbergasted if Pete pulls the plug in the next 3 years.

So all the "fans" who want Pete gone need to just accept that he is not going anywhere until he is ready, he wants next years draft and then see if he can get one more SB the following year.

So if any of you want Pete gone you will need to wait until after 2025 at the earliest!

All these threads and speculation about a new head coach next year or the following is just folly hyperventilating!

Book mark this post.

Seahawks Coach Pete Carroll Signs Contract Extension Through 2025 Season​

Pete Carroll, the winningest coach in franchise history, signed a contract extension earlier this season that runs through the 2025 season.​

Seahawks Coach Pete Carroll Signs Contract Extension Through 2025 Season

Pete Carroll, the winningest coach in franchise history, signed a contract extension earlier this season that runs through the 2025 season.

www.seahawks.com

 

[Fade]

Watching Pete fail every year at rebuilding his defense is sad AF.

Ever notice no matter how many picks, free agents, or coaches are brought in it just gets worse? This is not a small sample size we are dealing with here. 2016-2022 is 7 seasons. Featuring multiple failed rebuilds on defense.

If the current massive draft haul is squandered once again at ANOTHER failed rebuild of his defense. It's gonna be a longtime until the Seahawks contend again.

The OP has it correct. Now is the time for JS to assume full control and hire his new HC, and get the players that new coach needs to shape the team going forward.

Worst case scenario is the org. doesn't come to this realization until next year, when it's too late. And you're looking at a 5 yr rebuild at that point.

It's a 1 or 2 yr revamp right now. With the right guy.

Pete right now can't build a defense to save his life. The last 7 yrs tells us so.

 

[Rainger]

The OP has it correct. Now is the time for JS to assume full control and hire his new HC, and get the players that new coach needs to shape the team going forward.

Man do you even know the organizational structure of the Hawks?????? JS,CAN NOT assume full control unless Jody gives it to him. That would require an altering of both JS and PC's contracts and the team structure.

Doesn't matter what YOU want, Pete has a contract that JS has NO control over!!!!! Go cry on Jody's shoulder maybe she will listen to you, but I doubt it. You have him until the end of 2025 get used to it.

PC

EXECUTIVE VP OF FOOTBALL OPERATIONS/HEAD COACH​

JS
EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT/GENERAL MANAGER

JS does NOT sit above PC. His job is to WORK with the VP of FOOTBALL operations to help that VP build a winning team. One VP can not fire another VP without a structural change that must come from above both and an altering of existing contracts.

 

[TraderGary]

Pete hired John and is technically his boss . Is this correct? I'm honestly asking .
I think PC has had his hand in the pie for years and has been the major reason the Seahawks have been where they've been for the last decade.

Yes, you are correct. However, though it was never released publicly, there were a lot of rumors going around that during last offseason, Jody stripped Pete of some of his power including over the draft. It's why many of us here believe the reason we had such a successful draft this year was because instead of PC calling the shots, JS was largely in control of the picks, and that PC was primarily responsible for the majority of the poor drafts in recent years.

 

[Rainger]

Yes, you are correct. However, though it was never released publicly, there were a lot of rumors going around that during last offseason, Jody stripped Pete of some of his power including over the draft. It's why many of us here believe the reason we had such a successful draft this year was because instead of PC calling the shots, JS was largely in control of the picks, and that PC was primarily responsible for the majority of the poor drafts in recent years.

Rumor, nothing has been stripped, PC is VP of FOOTBALL OPPERATIONS, his last contract negotiation was in Nov of 2020 you cant strip someone unless you rewrite the contract.

They work as a team, JS and his staff find the talent for needs, PC and his staff work together to see if what JS staff has found fits the scheme and they collectively build the draft board or pursue FA,s together. Pete has to sign off on all players.

This last draft was successful because they all found the agreed talent. Not because JS had some POWER over PC. So according to .NET every good draft or FA signing is because of JS and every bad draft or FA signing is because of Pete. OMG

I could make an alternate argument, that is, the first few drafts were great BECUASE Pete had 10 years in college and knew all the players available and what recruits were still in the pipeline and JS had nothing to do with it. All those players were ones Pete tried to recruit or played against.

Then after Pete no longer had that inside Information he needed to rely on JS and his scouting staff much more and they brought much more questionable scouting information for the recent poor drafts. So the past bad drafts have been more from the JS staff rather than PC control.

They finally got on the same page this last year and I think they will kill it next year!

 

[Bobblehead]

Let him second guess. His input will be heard and considered, but not necessarily acted on.

Perhaps, but I doubt any coach will come here knowing that PC is upstairs whispering in JS's ear, nope, if your going to a new coach, it's gotta be a complete and free break away.

 

[hgwellz12]

I don't understand where you got a "blaming Pete" tone from my OP? My point was this may take longer than Pete anticipated, and if he's going to leave relatively soon anyway, mine as well let the new coach help with the architecture since he will be doing the building.

rjdriver, it's MIGHT as well. Even MAY as well works. For future reference because you're dotnet fam and I love ya.

*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this this fantabulous message board if you have any questions or concerns.*
Beep. Boop. I am a Gobot.

 

[TraderGary]

Rumor, nothing has been stripped, PC is VP of FOOTBALL OPPERATIONS, his last contract negotiation was in Nov of 2020 you cant strip someone unless you rewrite the contract.

And you would be correct in that statement. But you don't think it's possible Jody went to Pete and said something like..... "Pete, I'd like to give JS more power including final say in the draft which you've had veto power over since you got here. You can choose to accept these new guidelines and sign this revised contract, or we're going to move on and bring in a new head coach." You don't think it's possible something like that went down? Simple really. It's common for players to renegotiate contracts. You don't think it can be done with a HC? Even a long-standing one like Pete?

They work as a team, JS and his staff find the talent for needs, PC and his staff work together to see if what JS staff has found fits the scheme and they collectively build the draft board or pursue FA,s together. Pete has to sign off on all players.

Yes of course they work as a team with PC, JS, the rest of the coaching staff and the scouts all having input. But Pete has always had final say and veto power, till I believe this past draft. It was strongly rumored by someone on the inside (don't ask for a source because I don't have that info) that Jody was not happy with the direction the team was heading and it was her decision to strip Pete of some of his power, which I strongly believe included veto power in the draft. And I think when you combine that rumor with the fact that their draft strategy/philosophy was a complete 180 over what they had been doing in past years, I think a very strong argument can be made that this wasn't a "Pete Carroll" draft. There were no crazy reaches for players who were targeted in later rounds like we've seen so often in the past. Virtually ever pick was a 'best player available' pick. When was the last time we saw that from the Seahawks? When you look at it logically, I think it's pretty clear there was a new man in charge of the draft and I hope it stays that way in what may soon be the most important draft in franchise history.

This last draft was successful because they all found the agreed talent. Not because JS had some POWER over PC. So according to .NET every good draft or FA signing is because of JS and every bad draft or FA signing is because of Pete. OMG

Never in any of my posts did I say Pete never made a good selection or FA signing, or that JS never made a bad one. But Pete has certainly been behind an awful lot of the bad ones, particularly the Jamal Adams trade which is one of the worst trades in league history. The Jets were laughing at us the same way we're laughing at the Broncos today.

I could make an alternate argument, that is, the first few drafts were great BECUASE Pete had 10 years in college and knew all the players available and what recruits were still in the pipeline and JS had nothing to do with it. All those players were ones Pete tried to recruit or played against.

I agree. Pete had a lot of inside knowledge the first few years coming from the college ranks, which he took advantage of and hit on some great selections. No argument there. But once that inside knowledge ran its course, his drafts have been a complete disaster. How many players from the previous 5 drafts are still contributing today? (I'm not counting the 2022 draft because we saw a completely different philosophy which supports my argument that it was not a "Pete" draft). Better yet, how many first rounders are still on the roster?

Then after Pete no longer had that inside Information he needed to rely on JS and his scouting staff much more and they brought much more questionable scouting information for the recent poor drafts. So the past bad drafts have been more from the JS staff rather than PC control.

And what do you base that info on exactly? Rumor has it (again, I know it's just a rumor but I don't have any inside sources, however I am certainly capable of thinking logically in regard to those rumors), that JS as well as the scouts have not been at all happy with Pete's draft selections in recent years. (There's a thread on this site somewhere that discusses that). And I think there's a good chance that JS got in Judy's ear in the offseason which brought about the changes in power.

They finally got on the same page this last year and I think they will kill it next year!

No, I don't think it was about getting on the same page. I FIRMLY believe it was Pete getting out of the way and letting JS and the scouts do their jobs. And we saw the result. One of the best drafts in franchise history.

 

[Rainger]

Rumor, nothing has been stripped, PC is VP of FOOTBALL OPPERATIONS, his last contract negotiation was in Nov of 2020 you cant strip someone unless you rewrite the contract.

They work as a team, JS and his staff find the talent for needs, PC and his staff work together to see if what JS staff has found fits the scheme and they collectively build the draft board or pursue FA,s together. Pete has to sign off on all players.

This last draft was successful because they all found the agreed talent. Not because JS had some POWER over PC. So according to .NET every good draft or FA signing is because of JS and every bad draft or FA signing is because of Pete. OMG

I could make an alternate argument, that is, the first few drafts were great BECUASE Pete had 10 years in college and knew all the players available and what recruits were still in the pipeline and JS had nothing to do with it. All those players were ones Pete tried to recruit or played against.

Then after Pete no longer had that inside Information he needed to rely on JS and his scouting staff much more and they brought much more questionable scouting information for the recent poor drafts. So the past bad drafts have been more from the JS staff rather than PC control.

They finally got on the same page this last year and I think they will kill it next year!

And you would be correct in that statement. But you don't think it's possible Jody went to Pete and said something like..... "Pete, I'd like to give JS more power including final say in the draft which you've had veto power over since you got here. You can choose to accept these new guidelines and sign this revised contract, or we're going to move on and bring in a new head coach." You don't think it's possible something like that went down? Simple really. It's common for players to renegotiate contracts. You don't think it can be done with a HC? Even a long-standing one like Pete?


Yes of course they work as a team with PC, JS, the rest of the coaching staff and the scouts all having input. But Pete has always had final say and veto power, till I believe this past draft. It was strongly rumored by someone on the inside (don't ask for a source because I don't have that info) that Jody was not happy with the direction the team was heading and it was her decision to strip Pete of some of his power, which I strongly believe included veto power in the draft. And I think when you combine that rumor with the fact that their draft strategy/philosophy was a complete 180 over what they had been doing in past years, I think a very strong argument can be made that this wasn't a "Pete Carroll" draft. There were no crazy reaches for players who were targeted in later rounds like we've seen so often in the past. Virtually ever pick was a 'best player available' pick. When was the last time we saw that from the Seahawks? When you look at it logically, I think it's pretty clear there was a new man in charge of the draft and I hope it stays that way in what may soon be the most important draft in franchise history.


Never in any of my posts did I say Pete never made a good selection or FA signing, or that JS never made a bad one. But Pete has certainly been behind an awful lot of the bad ones, particularly the Jamal Adams trade which is one of the worst trades in league history. The Jets were laughing at us the same way we're laughing at the Broncos today.


I agree. Pete had a lot of inside knowledge the first few years coming from the college ranks, which he took advantage of and hit on some great selections. No argument there. But once that inside knowledge ran its course, his drafts have been a complete disaster. How many players from the previous 5 drafts are still contributing today? (I'm not counting the 2022 draft because we saw a completely different philosophy which supports my argument that it was not a "Pete" draft). Better yet, how many first rounders are still on the roster?


And what do you base that info on exactly? Rumor has it (again, I know it's just a rumor but I don't have any inside sources, however I am certainly capable of thinking logically in regard to those rumors), that JS as well as the scouts have not been at all happy with Pete's draft selections in recent years. (There's a thread on this site somewhere that discusses that). And I think there's a good chance that JS got in Judy's ear in the offseason which brought about the changes in power.


No, I don't think it was about getting on the same page. I FIRMLY believe it was Pete getting out of the way and letting JS and the scouts do their jobs. And we saw the result. One of the best drafts in franchise history.

LOL, all your replies are pure speculation, rumor, anonymous sources, "what you believe to be true"

You make comments about particular signings and attribute that to Pete or JS with actually NO evidence to back it up other than Pete had to give a final approval, which you probably didn't even know. A bad trade doesn't mean that it wasn't others suggesting it and selling it. Every team does it.

So none of the first couple of drafts after Pete got here in 2011 2012 were good drafts in Hawks history??? Only this last one??

Threads on this site are the WORST thing to be using as your speculation. Believe what you want. Pete has not lost any of his "control" on the team and he is not going anywhere until after 2025 unless he choses. So all this .NET speculation and hyperventilating is wasted air and key strokes.

.NET is as bad as the MSM, twitter, fakebook, etc with all its fake info and people who believe everything they read in the media and on social media and in .NET

 

[TraderGary]

LOL, all your replies are pure speculation, rumor, anonymous sources, "what you believe to be true"

You make comments about particular signings and attribute that to Pete or JS with actually NO evidence to back it up other than Pete had to give a final approval, which you probably didn't even know. A bad trade doesn't mean that it wasn't others suggesting it and selling it. Every team does it.

So none of the first couple of drafts after Pete got here in 2011 2012 were good drafts in Hawks history??? Only this last one??

Threads on this site are the WORST thing to be using as your speculation. Believe what you want. Pete has not lost any of his "control" on the team and he is not going anywhere until after 2025 unless he choses. So all this .NET speculation and hyperventilating is wasted air and key strokes.

.NET is as bad as the MSM, twitter, fakebook, etc with all its fake info and people who believe everything they read in the media and on social media and in .NET

Well for starters, I'm not naive enough to believe everything I read on .Net or twitter or any other of the multitude of sources out there. But I am capable of taking those rumors, (particularly if they're from a credible source), putting 2+2 together, and forming my own opinions and conclusions. I'm not basing anything on what other people on .Net are saying. I'm probably older than you, and I'm perfectly capable of critical thinking.

I also acknowledged in my previous reply that the first few years Pete was here, he had some very good drafts by utilizing the inside info he had on some of those kids. And once that advantage ran its course, his drafting suffered exponentially and continued to do so till the most recent draft. And I've already made my point regarding that.

 

[Rainger]

Well for starters, I'm not naive enough to believe everything I read on .Net or twitter or any other of the multitude of sources out there. But I am capable of taking those rumors, (particularly if they're from a credible source), putting 2+2 together, and forming my own opinions and conclusions. I'm not basing anything on what other people on .Net are saying. I'm probably older than you, and I'm perfectly capable of critical thinking.

I also acknowledged in my previous reply that the first few years Pete was here, he had some very good drafts by utilizing the inside info he had on some of those kids. And once that advantage ran its course, his drafting suffered exponentially and continued to do so till the most recent draft. And I've already made my point regarding that.

Go look at my profile.

Throwing out age is always a losing option. My 71st birthday is Jan 1. I will be in my 72 year.

But I am sure you have much more wisdom because you are so much older.

Why does everyone need to throw out age to justify losing arguments with no facts and based on rumours??

I have no problem with you having your opinion based on your analysis of the rumours but that, as I said earlier is pure wasted speculation.

Pete is going NOWHERE!!! AND will be making the final decisions on who is drafted and on the team!

Vice President of Football Operations.