Russell Wilson performance in Precision Passing Event

[Sun Tzu]

he needs to be on time more often and climb the pocket.

Carson Wentz sought out a specific Quarterback motion coach this last off season when his mechanics digressed towards the end of 2016/2017 season. His mechanics were so strong this year before he got hurt.

A couple of things you haven't taken into account.
"Climb The Pocket" assumes that he has a "Pocket" to move into, when in fact, his O-Line couldn't form nor defend any kind of "Pocket" with any kind of consistency, so, if he did attempt to step up, it would have shortened the distance for would be Sack-masters like Aaron Donald, or just about any average Defender for that matter (shitty O-Line blocking.
Carson Wentz's injury is a PERFECT example of what can happen when either your pocket collapses or there's piss-poor blocking.
Prime example; 2016...Break down in O-Line Protection = Wilson Injury, & not just once, but thrice.
It's also pretty hard to work on his QB "Mechanics" when he had zero TIME to load up (kinetics) to throw a pass, ESPECIALLY when he all too often had to tuck the ball down and take off running.
Hopefully, Solari can Coach up better QB protection, and block for our RB's.
Now I could be wrong, but I doubt that there's a lot of Warrior Mentality going on at the pre-Pro Bowl play-days :smilingalien:

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that, on the occasions when there is a pocket, RW should not climb the pocket, slide within the pocket, or otherwise manipulate the pocket? -or- Are you suggesting that, because RW so rarely has a pocket to work within, he should not even bother working to develop a skill set that would allow him to function more efficiently within the pocket? -or- Are you simply jumping to the defense of RW because, "how dare someone point out that there is something to be improved upon?"

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Every QB can get better at something. Just seems like people enjoy getting extra critical of Russ.

 

[Jville]

There are so many on the forum that are over sensitive to any criticism of the home team. I'm coming around to the notion that looking at players and teams outside of the forums favorites provides superior content in part because forum participants can be less emotional about loyalties and more rational about mechanics and such.

Speaking of which, here is a Drew Brees review that addresses how the Saints quarterback uses movement in the pocket to help his lineman form and maintain a pocket. [youtube]E9y4Zk3Pels[/youtube]

 

[SoulfishHawk]

We all know how obsessed Russ is, and part of that is always wanting to improve as a player.

 

[brimsalabim]

I’d kind of forgotten but when Russ first showed up here one of the things he was praised for was his release point. Maybe that’s deteriorating from the beatings he has taken behind our line?

 

[Spin Doctor]

Every QB can get better at something. Just seems like people enjoy getting extra critical of Russ.

People get critical about Russ because his skill set is a bit odd, and he has a tendency to be very inconsistent. One quarter he misses wide open receivers, or won't even bother to hit his check downs in the rare occasion that they were available in the play and hold onto the ball. Within the same game he will go on a complete tear making impossible throws, completing pass after pass, doing everything right. As a QB he is exhilarating to watch, but on the same hand he is frustrating. How can a guy go from looking like Tom Brady, and Randle Cunningham's lovechild, to looking so inept within the same game? This seems to happen regardless of whether he gets good protection or not, and this issue has been getting more pronounced as of late.

Frustrating is the best word to describe Russ. You can see the potential this man has, in fact I believe with the right coaching that he could be the best QB off all time. I truly do believe that. He sometimes looks like Barry Sanders playing Quarterback, the sheer amount of BS he can pull of is unfathomable for any other QB. Unfortunately, I feel as if Pete has taken that aspect of his play, and has emphasized mostly THAT. As a result we haven't seen the development from him that we would have hoped.

This is why I'm worried about the Schottenheimer hire. Yes, he seems like he might be a good QB coach, but his offense -- much like Bevell's really likes to go broke for the deep passes. I would very much like to see a more balanced approach like we had in 2015. That is what really will help Russ grow as a player, and help him reach his potential. I hope Schottenheimer really looks at the tape, and goes back to that style of football.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I’d kind of forgotten but when Russ first showed up here one of the things he was praised for was his release point. Maybe that’s deteriorating from the beatings he has taken behind our line?

He still has a high release point. The issue that those posters were conveying is that his mechanics are less than ideal at this point in time. His throwing motion was the main point of contention. It has a bit too much baseball in it is what I got out of those videos.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Digress does not mean what you seem to think it means...

Maybe he thinks Russell's footwork took a detour to Jimmy John's for a sub? :229031_shrug:

 

[scutterhawk]

he needs to be on time more often and climb the pocket.

Carson Wentz sought out a specific Quarterback motion coach this last off season when his mechanics digressed towards the end of 2016/2017 season. His mechanics were so strong this year before he got hurt.

A couple of things you haven't taken into account.
"Climb The Pocket" assumes that he has a "Pocket" to move into, when in fact, his O-Line couldn't form nor defend any kind of "Pocket" with any kind of consistency, so, if he did attempt to step up, it would have shortened the distance for would be Sack-masters like Aaron Donald, or just about any average Defender for that matter (shitty O-Line blocking.
Carson Wentz's injury is a PERFECT example of what can happen when either your pocket collapses or there's piss-poor blocking.
Prime example; 2016...Break down in O-Line Protection = Wilson Injury, & not just once, but thrice.
It's also pretty hard to work on his QB "Mechanics" when he had zero TIME to load up (kinetics) to throw a pass, ESPECIALLY when he all too often had to tuck the ball down and take off running.
Hopefully, Solari can Coach up better QB protection, and block for our RB's.
Now I could be wrong, but I doubt that there's a lot of Warrior Mentality going on at the pre-Pro Bowl play-days :smilingalien:

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that, on the occasions when there is a pocket, RW should not climb the pocket, slide within the pocket, or otherwise manipulate the pocket? -or- Are you suggesting that, because RW so rarely has a pocket to work within, he should not even bother working to develop a skill set that would allow him to function more efficiently within the pocket? -or- Are you simply jumping to the defense of RW because, "how dare someone point out that there is something to be improved upon?"

No, just to "Clarify", you don't need a slide rule to figure this out; Russell Wilson got injured in 2016, primarily because he ASSUMED that the Offensive Line was going to carry over from the second half of 2015, and give him pass protection....DIDN'T HAPPEN.
Let me ask you this--> Would you throw caution to the wind and climb a pocket that frequently collapses in less than two seconds?, I'll bet that your HONEST answer would be hell no...It was his trust in his O-Line that got Wilson hurt THREE TIMES in 2016.
The Offensive Line in 2017 wasn't a whole lot better, and Wilson's gun shy continued.
Tom Cable was shit-canned for NOT providing even a MINIMUM of protection for our Franchise Quarterback-----THANK GOD.
"Build It And They Will Come" = Build an O-Line that Russell Wilson can TRUST to push for the Run Game, and afford him better than crap protection, and better play will follow, because Surviving takes PRIORITY over Mechanics.

 

[IndyHawk]

Every QB can get better at something. Just seems like people enjoy getting extra critical of Russ.

People get critical about Russ because his skill set is a bit odd, and he has a tendency to be very inconsistent. One quarter he misses wide open receivers, or won't even bother to hit his check downs in the rare occasion that they were available in the play and hold onto the ball. Within the same game he will go on a complete tear making impossible throws, completing pass after pass, doing everything right. As a QB he is exhilarating to watch, but on the same hand he is frustrating. How can a guy go from looking like Tom Brady, and Randle Cunningham's lovechild, to looking so inept within the same game? This seems to happen regardless of whether he gets good protection or not, and this issue has been getting more pronounced as of late.

Frustrating is the best word to describe Russ. You can see the potential this man has, in fact I believe with the right coaching that he could be the best QB off all time. I truly do believe that. He sometimes looks like Barry Sanders playing Quarterback, the sheer amount of BS he can pull of is unfathomable for any other QB. Unfortunately, I feel as if Pete has taken that aspect of his play, and has emphasized mostly THAT. As a result we haven't seen the development from him that we would have hoped.

This is why I'm worried about the Schottenheimer hire. Yes, he seems like he might be a good QB coach, but his offense -- much like Bevell's really likes to go broke for the deep passes. I would very much like to see a more balanced approach like we had in 2015. That is what really will help Russ grow as a player, and help him reach his potential. I hope Schottenheimer really looks at the tape, and goes back to that style of football.

:2thumbs:
Great stuff in there and exactly what fustrates me in the first part.

 

[scutterhawk]

Every QB can get better at something. Just seems like people enjoy getting extra critical of Russ.

People get critical about Russ because his skill set is a bit odd, and he has a tendency to be very inconsistent. One quarter he misses wide open receivers, or won't even bother to hit his check downs in the rare occasion that they were available in the play and hold onto the ball. Within the same game he will go on a complete tear making impossible throws, completing pass after pass, doing everything right. As a QB he is exhilarating to watch, but on the same hand he is frustrating. How can a guy go from looking like Tom Brady, and Randle Cunningham's lovechild, to looking so inept within the same game? This seems to happen regardless of whether he gets good protection or not, and this issue has been getting more pronounced as of late.

Frustrating is the best word to describe Russ. You can see the potential this man has, in fact I believe with the right coaching that he could be the best QB off all time. I truly do believe that. He sometimes looks like Barry Sanders playing Quarterback, the sheer amount of BS he can pull of is unfathomable for any other QB. Unfortunately, I feel as if Pete has taken that aspect of his play, and has emphasized mostly THAT. As a result we haven't seen the development from him that we would have hoped.

This is why I'm worried about the Schottenheimer hire. Yes, he seems like he might be a good QB coach, but his offense -- much like Bevell's really likes to go broke for the deep passes. I would very much like to see a more balanced approach like we had in 2015. That is what really will help Russ grow as a player, and help him reach his potential. I hope Schottenheimer really looks at the tape, and goes back to that style of football.

:2thumbs:
Great stuff in there and exactly what fustrates me in the first part.

Pete to Russell Wilson...."The Game Isn't Won Or Lost In The First Quarter, So Protect The Football"
Numbers don't lie---> Wilson is one of THE Winningest Quarterbacks in the last 50+ Years.
He does whatever he can to win, EVEN with a crap O-Line & Run Game to help bail him out, More often than not, the Warrior in him still delivers. :2thumbs:

 

[hawkfan68]

When Brees retires, it would nice if the Seahawks would consider him to work with Russell. Though at this rate, Brees may be still playing. Looks like he may have a few years ahead of him. He's still playing at a high standard.

 

[lukerguy]

Let me start by saying I believe RW is a top tier QB.


- His footwork seems to have digressed of late as well (this isn't evident on the video at the probowl), but certainly lacks consistently. Part of this has to do with being gun shy with respect to blocking, but he needs to be on time more often and climb the pocket.

...

Carson Wentz sought out a specific Quarterback motion coach this last off season when his mechanics digressed towards the end of 2016/2017 season. His mechanics were so strong this year before he got hurt. Tom Brady still works with Tom House... All of these QB gurus are teaching a similar concept, but it's a concept RW has not learned yet. He continues to go back to his coach at NC state.

Digress does not mean what you seem to think it means...

You're right. I meant regressed.


But now the thread has been digressed... :2thumbs:

 

[lukerguy]

My first post in this thread was more to do with his overall mechanics rather than his footwork. I mentioned this because it's nearly impossible to be deadly accurate all the time like Brees is, with mechanics Russ has developed. That's not much of a knock though, since Brees is one of the most accurate throwers in history, something Russ strives to be as well.

However, for those of you who state the only reason he doesn't climb the pocket is because there is no pocket to climb are not accurate entirely.

Here's the thing about playing QB, once you experience poor protection, it feels impossible to try to rely upon said failed protection. I had been guilty of this very thing in the past. The problem is: Once you actually have a clean pocket, it's difficult to trust it's there.

I saw numerous times where Russ did this hunker down move when we sensed someone near, or fled the pocket when he actually had time to step up.

Sure there was an ABSOLUTE failure on the line this year and year's past, but the poor line has also created some bad habits that I'm sure he will fix... but that is to say he will need to make a concerted effort to fix those. The problems are there, and it's mostly the line's fault, but not entirely.

I started off the original post stating that I think he's a top tier QB. It seems like people can be a little sensitive. How much more credit do I have to give him before you'll allow me to discuss a few things he can improve? Everyone has room to improve. Everyone.

Thanks for your time.
LW

 

[scrummymustard]

he needs to be on time more often and climb the pocket.

Carson Wentz sought out a specific Quarterback motion coach this last off season when his mechanics digressed towards the end of 2016/2017 season. His mechanics were so strong this year before he got hurt.

A couple of things you haven't taken into account.
"Climb The Pocket" assumes that he has a "Pocket" to move into, when in fact, his O-Line couldn't form nor defend any kind of "Pocket" with any kind of consistency, so, if he did attempt to step up, it would have shortened the distance for would be Sack-masters like Aaron Donald, or just about any average Defender for that matter (shitty O-Line blocking.
Carson Wentz's injury is a PERFECT example of what can happen when either your pocket collapses or there's piss-poor blocking.
Prime example; 2016...Break down in O-Line Protection = Wilson Injury, & not just once, but thrice.
It's also pretty hard to work on his QB "Mechanics" when he had zero TIME to load up (kinetics) to throw a pass, ESPECIALLY when he all too often had to tuck the ball down and take off running.
Hopefully, Solari can Coach up better QB protection, and block for our RB's.
Now I could be wrong, but I doubt that there's a lot of Warrior Mentality going on at the pre-Pro Bowl play-days :smilingalien:

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that, on the occasions when there is a pocket, RW should not climb the pocket, slide within the pocket, or otherwise manipulate the pocket? -or- Are you suggesting that, because RW so rarely has a pocket to work within, he should not even bother working to develop a skill set that would allow him to function more efficiently within the pocket? -or- Are you simply jumping to the defense of RW because, "how dare someone point out that there is something to be improved upon?"

No, just to "Clarify", you don't need a slide rule to figure this out; Russell Wilson got injured in 2016, primarily because he ASSUMED that the Offensive Line was going to carry over from the second half of 2015, and give him pass protection....DIDN'T HAPPEN.
Let me ask you this--> Would you throw caution to the wind and climb a pocket that frequently collapses in less than two seconds?, I'll bet that your HONEST answer would be hell no...It was his trust in his O-Line that got Wilson hurt THREE TIMES in 2016.
The Offensive Line in 2017 wasn't a whole lot better, and Wilson's gun shy continued.
Tom Cable was shit-canned for NOT providing even a MINIMUM of protection for our Franchise Quarterback-----THANK GOD.
"Build It And They Will Come" = Build an O-Line that Russell Wilson can TRUST to push for the Run Game, and afford him better than crap protection, and better play will follow, because Surviving takes PRIORITY over Mechanics.

So just to clarify, you don't think RW needs to work on anything besides the Hawks having a better oline?

For all of lukerguy's analysis, you have such a hard on for RW that you can't even have a discussion about improving his mechanics? Everyone in the NFL can improve on their skills, including RW. Look RW is a great player, no one is denying that, but he can also improve.

If RW had the same pocket manipulation and mechanics as Brees, thus meaning more accurate, he would be so so so so good when you add in his athleticism and escapability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Every QB in the league, even Lord Brady...has week parts of their game that could be worked on. If you think Russ doesn't care and/or isn't striving to be better, don't know what to tell you.

 

[Ozzy]

Wait a minute how did Derek Carr get to the probowl, he's been awful?

Same way RW got there.

Russ played like it was still December but his fans can't blame the OL.

Are you saying Russ and Carr had similar years?

 

[scutterhawk]

Every QB in the league, even Lord Brady...has week parts of their game that could be worked on. If you think Russ doesn't care and/or is striving to be better, don't know what to tell you.

Oh no SoulfishHawk, I'm starting to see the light, maybe Wilson should work on Fixing His Mechanics, cuz that would probably help him from taking all those Hits, Sacks & Hurries.
Hell, maybe he should even seek out another Quarterback expert that can teach him how to roll with all the punches. LOLOL.
Silly me thought that he'd already mastered his QB gig, & didn't need to work on improving his play. LOLOL
Fastest QB to hit 64 WINS in his first 6 Seasons----Fastest QB to have thrown 150 TD's in the Super Bowl era, AND rush for over 3000 yards.
I doubt like hell, Russell Wilson has ever rested on his achievements, or laurels, never quits trying to be a more complete Quarterback.... NEVER.

 

[adeltaY]

lukerguy, thank you for the post, it was great to read. Russ def needs to work on that AND the line needs to block much better. I think he needs to work with someone besides his old NC State guy. Link up with House or someone else. Maybe try to pry Drew Brees away from his offseason chillin to work together. If Wentz can basically reverse his deteriorating mechanics in one offseason and throw 33 TDs with weeks to play, Russ can too.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Hey Scutter, I typed that in wrong, I meant to say that he ISN'T resting on anything. He's never completely satisfied as a QB, that's a very good thing. Unlike my way too fast typing :lol:
Everyone knows that I'm a huge Russ fan, to the next level.