Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Sox-n-Hawks]

The following is from the thread “elite” that I posted a few months ago. No matter how you slice it, Russell Wilson is elite. There can’t be many more nails left to end this debate.


The choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.”


The above is a definition of the word elite in dictionary.com. I have seen lots of debate and opinions on this board regarding the status of Russell Wilson and even Pete Carroll as to whether or not either one is elite. I’m not sure we can even debate the merits of the elitness of a player or coach without first understanding what the term elite means.

In the definition provided, elite is the best of anything considered collectively. Using that definition, one has to take into consideration the pool from which the person is a participant in order to clearly define whether they are elite or not. What is not stated in the definition but plays a huge part in this discussion is what percentage of the pool is to be considered for elitness.

Russell Wilson consistently comes out in the top 5-8 of all QBs. Being a top 5 QB puts him in the top 15%. I have seen him rated as high as #3 in some lists. A #3 position puts him in the top 10%. In terms of production and importance to his team, he is a top QB. That in and of itself makes him elite within the pool of players that he is part of. The fact that a player is elite or not can only be based on the competition at their same position across the league. A player cannot be compared to players no longer playing or to an arbitrary preconceived notion of what a player should play like or how their physical measurable stack up.

What I think many fans determine elite to be is based less on a players rank within his own pool of players and more of a subjective analysis based on how they think a player should be. For example, most draft lists would put a player at 6’3” and a “prototypical “dropback passer as a more desirable draft pick than a 5’11” scrambling QB regardless of their on field productivity. This player bias plays into the psyche of coaches and fans alike and predetermines to an extent a players potential to be considered elite.

There is no formula to determine whether a player is elite other than how they stack up against their peers. Is Russell Wilson considered one of the best QBs in the NFL? Yes he is. Is he the best QB in the NFL. Probably not. That honor has to fall on Aaron Rogers and/or Tom Brady which makes them the elite of the elite. Maybe Russ isn’t elite, but he’s at the doorstep.

He's outperforming both of them this season. He's certainly outperforming their first 6 years of play. Heck, did I just see that Tom Brady JUST hit 1,000yd career rushing? You'd think an ELITE QB could make something happen with his legs when coverage was too good or protection breaks down. That guy must really suck.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He just "manages" to keep winning.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

This article belongs on this thread.


https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/12/5/18126856/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-offensive-evolution

 

[Fade]

This article belongs on this thread.


https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/12/5/18126856/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-offensive-evolution

 

[Mad Dog]

The following is from the thread “elite” that I posted a few months ago. No matter how you slice it, Russell Wilson is elite. There can’t be many more nails left to end this debate.


The choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.”


The above is a definition of the word elite in dictionary.com. I have seen lots of debate and opinions on this board regarding the status of Russell Wilson and even Pete Carroll as to whether or not either one is elite. I’m not sure we can even debate the merits of the elitness of a player or coach without first understanding what the term elite means.

In the definition provided, elite is the best of anything considered collectively. Using that definition, one has to take into consideration the pool from which the person is a participant in order to clearly define whether they are elite or not. What is not stated in the definition but plays a huge part in this discussion is what percentage of the pool is to be considered for elitness.

Russell Wilson consistently comes out in the top 5-8 of all QBs. Being a top 5 QB puts him in the top 15%. I have seen him rated as high as #3 in some lists. A #3 position puts him in the top 10%. In terms of production and importance to his team, he is a top QB. That in and of itself makes him elite within the pool of players that he is part of. The fact that a player is elite or not can only be based on the competition at their same position across the league. A player cannot be compared to players no longer playing or to an arbitrary preconceived notion of what a player should play like or how their physical measurable stack up.

What I think many fans determine elite to be is based less on a players rank within his own pool of players and more of a subjective analysis based on how they think a player should be. For example, most draft lists would put a player at 6’3” and a “prototypical “dropback passer as a more desirable draft pick than a 5’11” scrambling QB regardless of their on field productivity. This player bias plays into the psyche of coaches and fans alike and predetermines to an extent a players potential to be considered elite.

There is no formula to determine whether a player is elite other than how they stack up against their peers. Is Russell Wilson considered one of the best QBs in the NFL? Yes he is. Is he the best QB in the NFL. Probably not. That honor has to fall on Aaron Rogers and/or Tom Brady which makes them the elite of the elite. Maybe Russ isn’t elite, but he’s at the doorstep.

I think you’ve got the denominator wrong. Every year thousands upon thousands of kids start at QB for their high schools dreaming of playing in the NFL. Only a select number are chosen to get scholarships to colleges. There are hundreds of college QB’s hoping to get drafted and play in the NFL, but only a select few get drafted. Of those drafted QB;s only a few become franchise QB’s. And of those franchise QB’s, only a few are top 5 in the league.

You could argue that getting into the NFL makes you elite amongst the QB fraternity. But producing, winning and leading a successful team makes you Uber elite. The top 0.1%.

This is where all the haters get things wrong. They put out comparisons to Brees and Rodgers and Brady. But elite doesn’t mean you are better than those guys. Elite means you are better than the thousands of QB’s that are your total peer group in the nation.

 

[Tical21]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

 

[Mad Dog]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

Nothing like throwing the term “hogwash” into the mix. Got everyone’s dander up.

 

[GeekHawk]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

Nothing like throwing the term “hogwash” into the mix. Got everyone’s dander up.

It's my (correct) opinion that doing that for the express purpose of roiling shit up (i.e., trolling the main forum) should be followed up by an indefinite ban for the perp.

 

[Seymour]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

Yes brilliant work alright! If your goal was to spout garbage out of your mouth while pissing off any reasonable Seahawks fan...then mission accomplished. ukeface:

Your comment is full of crap, you need another longer vacation I think.

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone..... That pick-6 from three weeks ago...there isn't another QB on your list that makes that throw. That was QB-101 stuff. ....

Here is proof how out of touch you are with reality, and how butt hurt you are about a too short QB.

Your "Mighty Dan Marino" threw 28 career pick 6's!! Brees 27, Rivers 23.... to Russells 3. THREE!!! :177692:

This is "fan 101 stuff"....and you failed.

[youtube]NK9LmES3kWg[/youtube]

 

[Seymour]

Top 5 at #4 for 2017 right now. Elite.

Ahead of Brady, ahead of Rodgers, ahead of Goff, ahead of Newton, ahead of Luck, ahead of Wortlessburger....ect.

TRADE HIM!! :roll:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ick-mahomes-ridiculous-season-in-perspective/

 

[KiwiHawk]

And forget the fact that they WON that game in large part because of that QB refused to give up, down 16 w/5 minutes to go. You don't even play in your 2nd SuperbOwl w/out Russ...........

Actually the 5-INT game was in November and the Packers won 38-10. In the NFC Championship game, Wilson was "credited" with 4 picks, only one of which was legitimately a bad throw.

But otherwise yes, the NFCCG was entirely about a QB who refused to accept defeat in the face of overwhelming odds.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Top 5 at #4 for 2017 right now. Elite.

2018, too.

 

[Fade]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

 

[scutterhawk]

He just "manages" to keep winning.

Sadly, what is NOT being discussed, is how rigorous the Patsies schedule is (or isn't)….Example; Russell Wilson has had to face off against the RAMS, 49rs, & the CARDINALS 6 times a season, and in conference battles, have had to play the 49res an extra game for all the marbles for the Conference Title.
Point is, for several seasons, the NFC WEST was without a doubt, the toughest in the whole NFC conference, so to me, Wilson has shown a lot more grit than Brady ever has, AND, he didn't have to deflate any balls like the Brady & the Cheatriots have.

 

[scutterhawk]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

As usual :dummy: ....Sometimes 'FUNNY' is just not .................Funny :177692:

 

[KiwiHawk]

He just "manages" to keep winning.

Sadly, what is NOT being discussed, is how rigorous the Patsies schedule is (or isn't)….Example; Russell Wilson has had to face off against the RAMS, 49rs, & the CARDINALS 6 times a season, and in conference battles, have had to play the 49res an extra game for all the marbles for the Conference Title.
Point is, for several seasons, the NFC WEST was without a doubt, the toughest in the whole NFC conference, so to me, Wilson has shown a lot more grit than Brady ever has, AND, he didn't have to deflate any balls like the Brady & the Cheatriots have.

Certainly in our Super Bowl years our division was clearly the best in the NFL. Since then the South has been very good and the East has even made a decent show of it.

However, I do agree that AFC East in the past several yeas has not been very thrilling. Even the teams that won a few were deeply flawed.

Edit: Crap, I forgot to qualify this, so before the monkeys start flinging poo, let me say this in no way cheapens or is meant to be a diss against the Seahawks, Russell Wilson, the NFC West, the NFL, or the city of Seattle and general area.

 

[Tical21]

I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position. He's making actual reads/progressions, maneuvering within the pocket, often delivering the ball on time. He's beating some coverages that he has always struggled with.

He usually plays well against Minnesota, but they seem to me to be the type of coverage he should have trouble with. They disguise their zone as man better than any team in the business, or, at least they used to. He's getting better. I'm optimistic, and not long ago, I kind of doubted that I ever would be again.

 

[Tical21]

And to think, this thread almost died in glory on it's first day, with 45 posts or whatever. Some of my greatest work, if I do say so myself. :stirthepot:

Nothing like throwing the term “hogwash” into the mix. Got everyone’s dander up.

Works every time.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I think I will add that if Russ keeps playing like this, I'll have no qualms at all with including him with the others at the pinnacle of the position. He's making actual reads/progressions, maneuvering within the pocket, often delivering the ball on time. He's beating some coverages that he has always struggled with.

He usually plays well against Minnesota, but they seem to me to be the type of coverage he should have trouble with. They disguise their zone as man better than any team in the business, or, at least they used to. He's getting better. I'm optimistic, and not long ago, I kind of doubted that I ever would be again.

Schotty 101: if you stack the box and go with single safety coverage... we’re going deep. If you back off, we’re running it down your throat. I don’t think Minnesota has the personnel to stop that.