Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Seymour]

Oh look, an interception by Drew Brees. The elite QBs don't turn the ball over with the game on the line. Brees just doesn't have the pocket presence and poise that the elite Qbs do

Yep....Brees and Brady no longer elite.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Oh look, an interception by Drew Brees. The elite QBs don't turn the ball over with the game on the line. Brees just doesn't have the pocket presence and poise that the elite Qbs do

Yep....Brees and Brady no longer elite.

I’m sure Brees had the Flu or something.

 

[Fade]

Oh look, an interception by Drew Brees. The elite QBs don't turn the ball over with the game on the line. Brees just doesn't have the pocket presence and poise that the elite Qbs do

Yep....Brees and Brady no longer elite.

Brees just isn't consistent enough.

The Elite QBs never have a passer rating under 80 in a game during a season. Brees has now had 2. Wilson has had 0.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Oh look, an interception by Drew Brees. The elite QBs don't turn the ball over with the game on the line. Brees just doesn't have the pocket presence and poise that the elite Qbs do

Yep....Brees and Brady no longer elite.

Brees just isn't consistent enough.

The Elite QBs never have a passer rating under 80 in a game during a season. Brees has now had 2. Wilson has had 0.

But but he’s thrown for a bazillion yards this season

 

[Fade]

Brees actually may not throw for 4000 yards this year, and I think he has had his best season.

But yeah, I know where you're coming from Sox. :2thumbs:

 

[rcaido]

wow Brees is too short not black enough.

 

[Fade]

Wilson's supposed inaccuracies over a 50ish game stretch have led to this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/status/1065068420046163968[/tweet]

That's a body.

I say "Hey I get you guys think he's elite, but I noticed a flaw in our QB's game - anyone want to discuss it?"

And you reply "Here are his stats against Aaron Rodgers"

This is the logical fallacy called the Non-Sequiter. If you don't want to answer, just don't answer. It's as easy as not hitting Reply.

Your complaints are moot, if in the end he is producing at an elite level, and out performing guys like Aaron Rodgers who many consider to be the best of all time. Let that settle in and marinate for a bit.

There was that one time Wilson didn't hit his receiver in stride so he only gained 15 yards instead of 19 yards. This led to us needing an extra play to score a TD on a drive. Unacceptable. There was also one time he threw a TD to a receiver when there was a more open receiver he could have also thrown the ball to.

Spot on.




Soo funny. I am dying over here.

This has been thoroughly entertaining today.

Re-quoting for ducks41468's epic comment of the day, possibly of the entire thread.

 

[LTH]

Fade....I would say you put the nail in the coffin the first post on this thread...but for some reason this thread has 11 pages... and still they do not believe... Ok then...

LTH

 

[AlciG]

wow Brees is too short not black enough.

:2thumbs:

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Brees actually may not throw for 4000 yards this year, and I think he has had his best season.

But yeah, I know where you're coming from Sox. :2thumbs:

Where are all of the folks that wanted him to be as consistent as Brees? People who swear elite QBs don't have bad games etc. I'd like to hear them explain the Thurday night game. :yawn:

 

[Mad Dog]

Fade....I would say you put the nail in the coffin the first post on this thread...but for some reason this thread has 11 pages... and still they do not believe... Ok then...

LTH

There is one thing I've learned about life. You cannot make anyone change their mind, no matter how delusional they are and how reasoned and logical you are. Too many people have fixed belief systems. Like the belief that because they watch all-22 they have some better insight than anyone else. If you view data with a jaundiced eye, it doesn't matter that you've viewed more data, your conclusions will be biased and false.

The only people that really know if Wilson is an elite QB are the coaches that know the play calls and the defensive coordinators that try to stop him. Pretty universally they put him in the upper echelon. But hey, joe fan watches football in all-22 and now he's an expert analyst. No way coaches can know anything joe fan doesn't.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

How about that horrific throw from Brees to lose the game last night? Let's see if anyone actually criticizes him. Why didn't people criticize Rodgers for missing wide open guys and tossing a ball in to the ground on 3rd and 2? Why are people not criticizing Big Ben for a game losing Pick? :snack:

And no, I don't think Russ is as good as Brees or Rodgers. But he's certainly in the top 5 or 6 in the league.

 

[KiwiHawk]

I'll just leave this here.

[youtube]6KzJ-fH9doE[/youtube]

 

[Ambrose83]

How about that horrific throw from Brees to lose the game last night? Let's see if anyone actually criticizes him. Why didn't people criticize Rodgers for missing wide open guys and tossing a ball in to the ground on 3rd and 2? Why are people not criticizing Big Ben for a game losing Pick? :snack:

And no, I don't think Russ is as good as Brees or Rodgers. But he's certainly in the top 5 or 6 in the league.

Rodgers is going off of name the last few years far more then stats.... They are 11-16-1 the last 2 years as of now.... And winless on the road this year.... That team has plenty of talent around him.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I say to the league. Go ahead. Keep underestimating him. Russ will prove you wrong. Period. :irishdrinkers:

 

[scutterhawk]

All QBs are flawed when you put them under the microscope. The people that say Russ isn't elite haven't done their homework on the other guys.

At the end of the day Wilson's production is tier 1, right along side them. Elite.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SNFonNBC/status/1068181861401325569[/tweet]
That's a body.

But once again you are using the QB rating stat which is pretty much universally considered to be a poor stat because it artificially rewards longer pass attempts, doesn't consider sacks, fails to account for QB rushing yards, and blah blah blah etc. ad infinitem. Again as an example the pass to Lockett which was a long pass that helps out the averages-over-12.5-yards-per-pass aspect of the rating while ignoring the under-throw.

Our offense is built around a running game that brings in the safeties and creates opportunities over the top of the defense. That lends itself amazingly well to QB rating, because the average pass is longer than the NFL's average pass, particularly among dink-and-dunk style offenses.

Pete Carroll is vehement about turnover ratio, so Wilson is schooled to avoid interceptions, which is often the cause of throwing late, which in turn can mean throwing short. However, it's fantastic for the TD/INT ratio, so it QB rating loves it.

Waiting until a receiver is wide open also assists with completion percentage. Again, QB rating loves it.

So we have a unique situation that is practically tailor-made for success in QB rating. Big surprise that Wilson excels there.

However, waiting for a receiver to be wide open can lead to unnecessary sacks, throwaways, intentional grounding, desperate rushing that nets a yard, etc. All things that can kill drives, but which QB rating doesn't care about provided your completion rate is above 77% (for a perfect QB rating score).

Let me be clear - I am not adopting a horse in this race. I am merely saying that thumping QB rating again isn't going to convince anyone because it's not really a very good stat.

Just getting the job done is a very good "Stat"
IF QBR was isolated as ONLY stat that someone might rely on, then you might have an argument, BUT, when it's ADDED to several other great stats, you have a lot more collaborated evidence that's not so easy to dismiss,

 

[toffee]

How about that horrific throw from Brees to lose the game last night? Let's see if anyone actually criticizes him. Why didn't people criticize Rodgers for missing wide open guys and tossing a ball in to the ground on 3rd and 2? Why are people not criticizing Big Ben for a game losing Pick? :snack:

And no, I don't think Russ is as good as Brees or Rodgers. But he's certainly in the top 5 or 6 in the league.

I think Russ is better than Brees and Rodges, just that he is kinda short, certainly not bad enough, and played game managerish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fade]

"The Seahawks defense isn't great, but they have Russell Wilson. And Russell Wilson is capable of beating essentially any of these teams almost singlehandedly. I would not want to face Russell Wilson if I was pretty much any team in the NFC." -PFF (7:19 mark)

That sounds pretty elite to me.

[youtube]1W2CrOFnXu8[/youtube]
They also go in on Rodgers (If Wilson can carry his team, why can't Rodgers?) LOL. Good vid.

 

[scutterhawk]

See? It's like you guys think you are being attacked when any criticism is made.

All I got in response was:

"Wilson has the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of all time." Great. Has nothing to do with what I asked, but it's a nice stat.

"How do you know if this is true when compared to other elite QBs?" Because I have NFL Game Pass including the all-22, and because I spend more time watching games than stats, and becuase I have noticed that sometimes our receivers have to wait for the ball, ruining their momentum and allowing the immediate tackle instead of a YAC or even TD opportunity.

"Wilson is asked to make consistently harder throws than the other elite QBs" Lovely. Again, has nothing to do with the question but thanks for the stat.

"Now tell us what an overthrown ball leads to and explain which produces better results?" Generally leads to an incomplete pass, why do you ask? I'm asking about under-thrown passes, not over-thrown. Are you specifically referring to the potential TD pass to Baldwin vs Carolina?

"Do you think he is the ONLY QB making several underthrown completions so the stats are wrong or tilted his way?" No, I don't think he's the only QB underthrowing, but thanks for the logical fallacy. And by the way I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATS. I'm talking about the ability to hit an open receiver in stride instead of making him wait for the ball to arrive.

"Aaron Rodgers' last two fourth quarters against Brady and Russell Wilson" Lolwut? Brady and Wilson don't play defense. How the hell do they impact Aaron Rodgers' fourth quarter performance from the sideline? This is getting stupid. What an asinine response.

And once again for the hard-of-reading: I am not against Wilson being elite, nor am I promoting it. I just presented an example of a demonstrable flaw and asked what the response was, and apparently nobody actually wants to talk about it as if it's a threat of some kind.

Conversation, people, try it.

I don't know about others in here, BUT, you are OFTEN presenting incomplete data in your critiquing of Russell Wilson in your "Conversations" + you like to dismiss stats when talking about Wilson, WHAT metrics do you like to use?, the ol' "Eye Test"? That's your "Demonstrable Flaw", when some present facts that OTHER ELITE Quarterbacks mess up with underthrown, & overthrown passes, which (THEY ALL DO), that shouldn't be used as a comparative?

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

So if Lockett torches Sherman and Russ drops bombs on target, what kind of trash will #25 talk? You KNOW deep inside Russ wants to do it.