Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Fade]

Protip: When you have to nitpick a QB = he is elite.

It's like saying Steph Curry isn't elite because he doesn't make 60% of his 3 pointers, and too many of them hit the rim when they go in. While saying other shooters swish theirs way more often. (While providing no proof if this is the case, just a gut feeling.) Or being like Curry isn't elite because he doesn't avg 10 rebounds a game. Impossible, unrealistic, deranged standards.

No QB is nowhere near perfect. You're proving your ignorance if you think that is a realistic standard to measure by. He is being measured against the other elites in the sport production wise and he is right there with them. Other QBs would have collapsed under the duress Wilson was placed under (Cabevell). Wilson instead found a way to thrive.

Remember folks this is the hill they are choosing to die on.




*EDIT*

More Cowherd truth:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1063492395650686977[/tweet]


*EDIT 2*
[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar/status/1063339723505221632[/tweet]

Wilson still has 5 more games to add to this number.

 

[KiwiHawk]

See? It's like you guys think you are being attacked when any criticism is made.

All I got in response was:

"Wilson has the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of all time." Great. Has nothing to do with what I asked, but it's a nice stat.

"How do you know if this is true when compared to other elite QBs?" Because I have NFL Game Pass including the all-22, and because I spend more time watching games than stats, and becuase I have noticed that sometimes our receivers have to wait for the ball, ruining their momentum and allowing the immediate tackle instead of a YAC or even TD opportunity.

"Wilson is asked to make consistently harder throws than the other elite QBs" Lovely. Again, has nothing to do with the question but thanks for the stat.

"Now tell us what an overthrown ball leads to and explain which produces better results?" Generally leads to an incomplete pass, why do you ask? I'm asking about under-thrown passes, not over-thrown. Are you specifically referring to the potential TD pass to Baldwin vs Carolina?

"Do you think he is the ONLY QB making several underthrown completions so the stats are wrong or tilted his way?" No, I don't think he's the only QB underthrowing, but thanks for the logical fallacy. And by the way I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATS. I'm talking about the ability to hit an open receiver in stride instead of making him wait for the ball to arrive.

"Aaron Rodgers' last two fourth quarters against Brady and Russell Wilson" Lolwut? Brady and Wilson don't play defense. How the hell do they impact Aaron Rodgers' fourth quarter performance from the sideline? This is getting stupid. What an asinine response.

And once again for the hard-of-reading: I am not against Wilson being elite, nor am I promoting it. I just presented an example of a demonstrable flaw and asked what the response was, and apparently nobody actually wants to talk about it as if it's a threat of some kind.

Conversation, people, try it.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Wow. Poor Drew Brees is having a slow start. If he was more consistent we could call him elite.

 

[SeaChase]

Wow. Poor Drew Brees is having a slow start. If he was more consistent we could call him elite.

That's odd, he reminds me of Wilson in every first quarter.

 

[Scorpion05]

Wow. Poor Drew Brees is having a slow start. If he was more consistent we could call him elite.

Yea what's wrong with that guy. Maybe he needs to get into a rhythm. Maybe he's not reading the defense well.

Well, at least there's the 2nd half. He'll catch fire

 

[KiwiHawk]

/facepalm

 

[Uncle Si]

See? It's like you guys think you are being attacked when any criticism is made.

All I got in response was:

"Wilson has the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of all time." Great. Has nothing to do with what I asked, but it's a nice stat.

"How do you know if this is true when compared to other elite QBs?" Because I have NFL Game Pass including the all-22, and because I spend more time watching games than stats, and becuase I have noticed that sometimes our receivers have to wait for the ball, ruining their momentum and allowing the immediate tackle instead of a YAC or even TD opportunity.

"Wilson is asked to make consistently harder throws than the other elite QBs" Lovely. Again, has nothing to do with the question but thanks for the stat.

"Now tell us what an overthrown ball leads to and explain which produces better results?" Generally leads to an incomplete pass, why do you ask? I'm asking about under-thrown passes, not over-thrown. Are you specifically referring to the potential TD pass to Baldwin vs Carolina?

"Do you think he is the ONLY QB making several underthrown completions so the stats are wrong or tilted his way?" No, I don't think he's the only QB underthrowing, but thanks for the logical fallacy. And by the way I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATS. I'm talking about the ability to hit an open receiver in stride instead of making him wait for the ball to arrive.

"Aaron Rodgers' last two fourth quarters against Brady and Russell Wilson" Lolwut? Brady and Wilson don't play defense. How the hell do they impact Aaron Rodgers' fourth quarter performance from the sideline? This is getting stupid. What an asinine response.

And once again for the hard-of-reading: I am not against Wilson being elite, nor am I promoting it. I just presented an example of a demonstrable flaw and asked what the response was, and apparently nobody actually wants to talk about it as if it's a threat of some kind.

Conversation, people, try it.

4th and 3 was in stride. Baldwin in the Super Bowl? Kearse in the NFCC game(s). can think of dozens of throws in stride to deep targets he's made.

Often he's throwing it where it needs to be thrown, in between defenders. I look at the deep throw to Moore in the 2nd quarter and it was "underthrown" to avoid the oncoming safety. The throw to Lockett was on the run and again, away from a converging defender. Those are still tough throws and are completions... in big, big moments.

Its not always about "in stride" and doesn't have to be. Sometimes you toss to back shoulder (Matthews on the Super Bowl). Sometimes you underthrow while scrambling because the route went deep and he's running (Baldwin vs. 9ers, or Lockett this weekend)

I understand what you're saying, some of it is off target, and many very good Qbs do that. But he's also throwing these passes for completions, and his deep ball IN STRIDE while in the pocket is extremely accurate.

when his underthows stop being completions, then its time to worry. Right now, i just see a qb making deep throws all over the field and getting completions. some could go for more yards... but at what expense to the overall completion %? these are still big, big plays were are talking about.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Wow. Poor Drew Brees is having a slow start. If he was more consistent we could call him elite.

Yea what's wrong with that guy. Maybe he needs to get into a rhythm. Maybe he's not reading the defense well.

Well, at least there's the 2nd half. He'll catch fire

Poor guy is a step or two from being an "Elite QB" too bad he hasn't had a perfect half in this game. He's underthrowing receivers, timing is off. Wow I thought he was better than that. The Saints must need a new QB.

 

[Fade]

Elite QBs don't put up 0 points for an entire half of football, especially the 1st half. (Starting slow.) With only 40 yards passing. So I have been told.

Cross Drew Brees off the list.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

They might as well trade him now. He's an average QB at best.

 

[chris98251]

Weird how all of the best QBs in history, according to QBR, are all modern QBs.

Some of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL (by QBR) are even guys like Romo or Cousins. Odd how that works.

Almost as if the game was much easier for modern QBs than back when QBs did not have all the rules slanted in their favor.

Or it could just be an incredible coincidence that those lists are chock full of modern QBs vs some of the historical greats.

Or it could be that sports evolve and people get better, QBs are playing longer careers, they have better technology to protect them and film study. It's the same reason you see Olympic Records beat every 4 years.

Right? It's not just rule changes, it's everything advancing at some pace simultaneously - players practicing actual downfield passing earlier in their lives, training regimens that would make most 1960s football players vomit quickly, athletic ability inherently increasing due to a combo of genetics, nutrition and training, etc etc. Rule changes affect the stats and what people are willing to attempt but they don't change the physical abilities of the players who can now attempt some of these formerly higher risk things based on athletics alone.

I doubt it, I would imagine most modern day players could not survive a half of football played by 1960 players in their prime, outdoors on fields almost solid iced Mud and dirt. They would be vomiting from the pain inflicted and fear of those guys.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Weird how all of the best QBs in history, according to QBR, are all modern QBs.

Some of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL (by QBR) are even guys like Romo or Cousins. Odd how that works.

Almost as if the game was much easier for modern QBs than back when QBs did not have all the rules slanted in their favor.

Or it could just be an incredible coincidence that those lists are chock full of modern QBs vs some of the historical greats.

Or it could be that sports evolve and people get better, QBs are playing longer careers, they have better technology to protect them and film study. It's the same reason you see Olympic Records beat every 4 years.

Right? It's not just rule changes, it's everything advancing at some pace simultaneously - players practicing actual downfield passing earlier in their lives, training regimens that would make most 1960s football players vomit quickly, athletic ability inherently increasing due to a combo of genetics, nutrition and training, etc etc. Rule changes affect the stats and what people are willing to attempt but they don't change the physical abilities of the players who can now attempt some of these formerly higher risk things based on athletics alone.

I doubt it, I would imagine most modern day players could not survive a half of football played by 1960 players in their prime, outdoors on fields almost solid iced Mud and dirt. They would be vomiting from the pain inflicted and fear of those guys.

I have to disagree with that. Especially if played with modern rules and these modern monsters were conditioned the way they are.

 

[Scorpion05]

I agree with the point about football players in the old days. But football players are also bigger, faster and coaching is more detailed than ever before in my opinion.

 

[Fade]

See? It's like you guys think you are being attacked when any criticism is made.

All I got in response was:

"Wilson has the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of all time." Great. Has nothing to do with what I asked, but it's a nice stat.

"How do you know if this is true when compared to other elite QBs?" Because I have NFL Game Pass including the all-22, and because I spend more time watching games than stats, and becuase I have noticed that sometimes our receivers have to wait for the ball, ruining their momentum and allowing the immediate tackle instead of a YAC or even TD opportunity.

"Wilson is asked to make consistently harder throws than the other elite QBs" Lovely. Again, has nothing to do with the question but thanks for the stat.

"Now tell us what an overthrown ball leads to and explain which produces better results?" Generally leads to an incomplete pass, why do you ask? I'm asking about under-thrown passes, not over-thrown. Are you specifically referring to the potential TD pass to Baldwin vs Carolina?

"Do you think he is the ONLY QB making several underthrown completions so the stats are wrong or tilted his way?" No, I don't think he's the only QB underthrowing, but thanks for the logical fallacy. And by the way I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATS. I'm talking about the ability to hit an open receiver in stride instead of making him wait for the ball to arrive.

"Aaron Rodgers' last two fourth quarters against Brady and Russell Wilson" Lolwut? Brady and Wilson don't play defense. How the hell do they impact Aaron Rodgers' fourth quarter performance from the sideline? This is getting stupid. What an asinine response.

And once again for the hard-of-reading: I am not against Wilson being elite, nor am I promoting it. I just presented an example of a demonstrable flaw and asked what the response was, and apparently nobody actually wants to talk about it as if it's a threat of some kind.

Conversation, people, try it.

Wilson's supposed inaccuracies over a 50ish game stretch have led to this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/status/1065068420046163968[/tweet]

That's a body.

 

[KiwiHawk]

See? It's like you guys think you are being attacked when any criticism is made.

All I got in response was:

"Wilson has the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of all time." Great. Has nothing to do with what I asked, but it's a nice stat.

"How do you know if this is true when compared to other elite QBs?" Because I have NFL Game Pass including the all-22, and because I spend more time watching games than stats, and becuase I have noticed that sometimes our receivers have to wait for the ball, ruining their momentum and allowing the immediate tackle instead of a YAC or even TD opportunity.

"Wilson is asked to make consistently harder throws than the other elite QBs" Lovely. Again, has nothing to do with the question but thanks for the stat.

"Now tell us what an overthrown ball leads to and explain which produces better results?" Generally leads to an incomplete pass, why do you ask? I'm asking about under-thrown passes, not over-thrown. Are you specifically referring to the potential TD pass to Baldwin vs Carolina?

"Do you think he is the ONLY QB making several underthrown completions so the stats are wrong or tilted his way?" No, I don't think he's the only QB underthrowing, but thanks for the logical fallacy. And by the way I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATS. I'm talking about the ability to hit an open receiver in stride instead of making him wait for the ball to arrive.

"Aaron Rodgers' last two fourth quarters against Brady and Russell Wilson" Lolwut? Brady and Wilson don't play defense. How the hell do they impact Aaron Rodgers' fourth quarter performance from the sideline? This is getting stupid. What an asinine response.

And once again for the hard-of-reading: I am not against Wilson being elite, nor am I promoting it. I just presented an example of a demonstrable flaw and asked what the response was, and apparently nobody actually wants to talk about it as if it's a threat of some kind.

Conversation, people, try it.

Wilson's supposed inaccuracies over a 50ish game stretch have led to this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/status/1065068420046163968[/tweet]

That's a body.

I say "Hey I get you guys think he's elite, but I noticed a flaw in our QB's game - anyone want to discuss it?"

And you reply "Here are his stats against Aaron Rodgers"

This is the logical fallacy called the Non-Sequiter. If you don't want to answer, just don't answer. It's as easy as not hitting Reply.

 

[Fade]

See? It's like you guys think you are being attacked when any criticism is made.

All I got in response was:

"Wilson has the 2nd best TD/INT ratio of all time." Great. Has nothing to do with what I asked, but it's a nice stat.

"How do you know if this is true when compared to other elite QBs?" Because I have NFL Game Pass including the all-22, and because I spend more time watching games than stats, and becuase I have noticed that sometimes our receivers have to wait for the ball, ruining their momentum and allowing the immediate tackle instead of a YAC or even TD opportunity.

"Wilson is asked to make consistently harder throws than the other elite QBs" Lovely. Again, has nothing to do with the question but thanks for the stat.

"Now tell us what an overthrown ball leads to and explain which produces better results?" Generally leads to an incomplete pass, why do you ask? I'm asking about under-thrown passes, not over-thrown. Are you specifically referring to the potential TD pass to Baldwin vs Carolina?

"Do you think he is the ONLY QB making several underthrown completions so the stats are wrong or tilted his way?" No, I don't think he's the only QB underthrowing, but thanks for the logical fallacy. And by the way I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STATS. I'm talking about the ability to hit an open receiver in stride instead of making him wait for the ball to arrive.

"Aaron Rodgers' last two fourth quarters against Brady and Russell Wilson" Lolwut? Brady and Wilson don't play defense. How the hell do they impact Aaron Rodgers' fourth quarter performance from the sideline? This is getting stupid. What an asinine response.

And once again for the hard-of-reading: I am not against Wilson being elite, nor am I promoting it. I just presented an example of a demonstrable flaw and asked what the response was, and apparently nobody actually wants to talk about it as if it's a threat of some kind.

Conversation, people, try it.

Wilson's supposed inaccuracies over a 50ish game stretch have led to this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/theryanmichael/status/1065068420046163968[/tweet]

That's a body.

I say "Hey I get you guys think he's elite, but I noticed a flaw in our QB's game - anyone want to discuss it?"

And you reply "Here are his stats against Aaron Rodgers"

This is the logical fallacy called the Non-Sequiter. If you don't want to answer, just don't answer. It's as easy as not hitting Reply.

Your complaints are moot, if in the end he is producing at an elite level, and out performing guys like Aaron Rodgers who many consider to be the best of all time. Let that settle in and marinate for a bit.

 

[Scorpion05]

Oh look, an interception by Drew Brees. The elite QBs don't turn the ball over with the game on the line. Brees just doesn't have the pocket presence and poise that the elite Qbs do

 

[ducks41468]

There was that one time Wilson didn't hit his receiver in stride so he only gained 15 yards instead of 19 yards. This led to us needing an extra play to score a TD on a drive. Unacceptable. There was also one time he threw a TD to a receiver when there was a more open receiver he could have also thrown the ball to.

 

[chris98251]

Or it could be that sports evolve and people get better, QBs are playing longer careers, they have better technology to protect them and film study. It's the same reason you see Olympic Records beat every 4 years.

Right? It's not just rule changes, it's everything advancing at some pace simultaneously - players practicing actual downfield passing earlier in their lives, training regimens that would make most 1960s football players vomit quickly, athletic ability inherently increasing due to a combo of genetics, nutrition and training, etc etc. Rule changes affect the stats and what people are willing to attempt but they don't change the physical abilities of the players who can now attempt some of these formerly higher risk things based on athletics alone.

I doubt it, I would imagine most modern day players could not survive a half of football played by 1960 players in their prime, outdoors on fields almost solid iced Mud and dirt. They would be vomiting from the pain inflicted and fear of those guys.

I have to disagree with that. Especially if played with modern rules and these modern monsters were conditioned the way they are.

If they played in the 60's, if they played in the 2000s 90 percent of the 1960's players would not be drafted or on a team based on their physical traits in that era.


Have a Butkus or Nitchke, Conrad Dobler, Alex Karas, Night Trian Lane, the whole Rams D line being able to do what they did with current players.


You played football and also were in a fight every week.

 

[Fade]

There was that one time Wilson didn't hit his receiver in stride so he only gained 15 yards instead of 19 yards. This led to us needing an extra play to score a TD on a drive. Unacceptable. There was also one time he threw a TD to a receiver when there was a more open receiver he could have also thrown the ball to.

Spot on.




Soo funny. I am dying over here.

This has been thoroughly entertaining today.