Rumor: RW asking to be the highest paid player in history

chris98251

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Anthony!":2nxi2j72 said:
chris98251":2nxi2j72 said:
Anthony!":2nxi2j72 said:
ptisme":2nxi2j72 said:
Yeah, the jury is still out on our FO :roll:

I don't think the jury is still out on a FO that's been to back to back SB's and won one of them:)



Sorry the jury is still out when it comes to dealing with offensive FAs. They have done a great job of taking care of the defense, but out side of Lynch they have not had any other high caliber/franchise level talent to deal with till now, SO yes the jury is still out

Lynch, Rice, Graham, Robinson, Miller, none of those guys except Lynch count?


as usual people do not read my posts which of them is a high caliber Franchise level talent besides Lynch? Which is in the prime of their career? enough said

All of them made the Pro bowl, obviously you don't even know the players on this team well enough to have this argument, if you don't consider a pro bowler a franchise level player then I guess we need a bunch of 20 million dollar QB's to meet those expectations.

If a rebuttal doesn't fit the agenda your playing you dismiss it and make new rules.
 

theincrediblesok

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The FO is the best yes, but not when it comes to our offense. Lynch is the only free agent that actually plays up to his contract. The FO is great at getting deals with defensive players, but when it comes to offensive players we end up overpaying most of them. While the Defensive side they treated on a one year prove it deal, and it worked more often than not.

Sidney Rice - When healthy was great, but was only healthy one season and two season of at least 8 game shouldn't warrant a huge contract, already had history with injury.

Zach Miller - Paid pretty good just to block and sometimes catches the ball. I'm surprised the FO haven't used him more in the receiving game.

Matt Flynn - Couldn't beat a rookie in training camp, played great in two games for the Packers.

Percy Harvin - You know the deal

Graham will be the one that I think that will break that trend, since we never had a true #1 threat before.
 

chris98251

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Just to play the devil here.

This is what have you done for me lately league. What was Russell's last pass, he is a 3rd round pick that made good and could be argued the system he is in makes his percentage elevated because it dictates safe plays, his yardage and attempts isn't up where the elite QB's are. He is supported by the best back in the league, he has the best defense in the league so isn't asked to carry a team. He has fundamental flaws in his game and needs to see the field better and hit his secondary receivers and learn to throw them open.
 

Hawkpower

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theincrediblesok":cm5q1eoi said:
The FO is the best yes, but not when it comes to our offense. Lynch is the only free agent that actually plays up to his contract. The FO is great at getting deals with defensive players, but when it comes to offensive players we end up overpaying most of them. While the Defensive side they treated on a one year prove it deal, and it worked more often than not.

Sidney Rice - When healthy was great, but was only healthy one season and two season of at least 8 game shouldn't warrant a huge contract, already had history with injury.

Zach Miller - Paid pretty good just to block and sometimes catches the ball. I'm surprised the FO haven't used him more in the receiving game.

Matt Flynn - Couldn't beat a rookie in training camp, played great in two games for the Packers.

Percy Harvin - You know the deal

Graham will be the one that I think that will break that trend, since we never had a true #1 threat before.



So interesting how similar your views and style are to ANTHONY. Interesting...

As I said to you/Anthony earlier, Front offices are evaluated on success. Two straight superbowls should be enough to end this ridiculous commentary right now, but somehow it is fitting you/Anthony's RW agenda so you are keeping it on life support.

Oh and by the way, Lynch/Harvin/Graham not obtained via Free Agency.
 

chris98251

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Hawkpower":3t0cvbz4 said:
theincrediblesok":3t0cvbz4 said:
The FO is the best yes, but not when it comes to our offense. Lynch is the only free agent that actually plays up to his contract. The FO is great at getting deals with defensive players, but when it comes to offensive players we end up overpaying most of them. While the Defensive side they treated on a one year prove it deal, and it worked more often than not.

Sidney Rice - When healthy was great, but was only healthy one season and two season of at least 8 game shouldn't warrant a huge contract, already had history with injury.

Zach Miller - Paid pretty good just to block and sometimes catches the ball. I'm surprised the FO haven't used him more in the receiving game.

Matt Flynn - Couldn't beat a rookie in training camp, played great in two games for the Packers.

Percy Harvin - You know the deal

Graham will be the one that I think that will break that trend, since we never had a true #1 threat before.



So interesting how similar your views and style are to ANTHONY. Interesting...

As I said to you/Anthony earlier, Front offices are evaluated on success. Two straight superbowls should be enough to end this ridiculous commentary right now, but somehow it is fitting you/Anthony's RW agenda so you are keeping it on life support.

Oh and by the way, Lynch was not obtained via Free Agency.

Your last comment is true, neither was Graham or Harvin. I look at it as acquiring talent for the offense via trade or FA, It's not how but the acquisition that matters.
 

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chris98251":ohno8jh4 said:
Just to play the devil here.

This is what have you done for me lately league. What was Russell's last pass, he is a 3rd round pick that made good and could be argued the system he is in makes his percentage elevated because it dictates safe plays, his yardage and attempts isn't up where the elite QB's are. He is supported by the best back in the league, he has the best defense in the league so isn't asked to carry a team. He has fundamental flaws in his game and needs to see the field better and hit his secondary receivers and learn to throw them open.
He's also been in the league for just 3 years and has probably done more in his first three years than any QB has in their first 3 years. He's still getting better...he hasn't reached his ceiling yet so I'm not sure why so many fault him for playing the system the way Carroll has instructed him to play it
 

theincrediblesok

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Bro me and Anthony! are two different people, my agenda is the same as Anthony's because I believe in Wilson. Me and him don't always agree on things. You can believe whatever you like though.

My bad that's correct we traded for Harvin and Graham, but I still stand firm that the FO haven't been the best at getting Offensive play-makers and most of the time overpaying them.

As it stands now we don't even know the full details of the contract talk besides 4 years 80 million.

Am I discounting Lynch and the defense too, hecks no look at the stats I provided few pages back that showed all the Franchised QB in the salary cap era who had an elite defense winning them the Superbowls were mostly all hall of famers.
 

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Hawkfan77":61tbw47e said:
chris98251":61tbw47e said:
Just to play the devil here.

This is what have you done for me lately league. What was Russell's last pass, he is a 3rd round pick that made good and could be argued the system he is in makes his percentage elevated because it dictates safe plays, his yardage and attempts isn't up where the elite QB's are. He is supported by the best back in the league, he has the best defense in the league so isn't asked to carry a team. He has fundamental flaws in his game and needs to see the field better and hit his secondary receivers and learn to throw them open.
He's also been in the league for just 3 years and has probably done more in his first three years than any QB has in their first 3 years. He's still getting better...he hasn't reached his ceiling yet so I'm not sure why so many fault him for playing the system the way Carroll has instructed him to play it



Sure, quite true.

But then, if we are always going to have a QB playing Carroll's style, does it make sense to pay a QB earth shattering money to play safe, point guard at QB?

Maybe after we pay the man, we change our style? Dunno.

Worth thinking about.
 

Hawkfan77

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Hawkpower":1puh1yj0 said:
Hawkfan77":1puh1yj0 said:
chris98251":1puh1yj0 said:
Just to play the devil here.

This is what have you done for me lately league. What was Russell's last pass, he is a 3rd round pick that made good and could be argued the system he is in makes his percentage elevated because it dictates safe plays, his yardage and attempts isn't up where the elite QB's are. He is supported by the best back in the league, he has the best defense in the league so isn't asked to carry a team. He has fundamental flaws in his game and needs to see the field better and hit his secondary receivers and learn to throw them open.
He's also been in the league for just 3 years and has probably done more in his first three years than any QB has in their first 3 years. He's still getting better...he hasn't reached his ceiling yet so I'm not sure why so many fault him for playing the system the way Carroll has instructed him to play it



Sure, quite true.

But then, if we are always going to have a QB playing Carroll's style, does it make sense to pay a QB earth shattering money to play safe, point guard at QB?

Maybe after we pay the man, we change our style? Dunno.

Worth thinking about.
Safe, point guard style QB? Have you actually watched Wilson play?

Let's stop pretending Wilson can't play at a high level. If this system was so easy, and so safe, then why couldn't Whitehurst succeed? Why couldn't T Jack succeed? Why couldn't Matt Flynn succeed? You may want to believe it's some big coincidence that the Hawks become an elite team when Wilson took over as QB, but I don't. We have a franchise QB finally for the first time in awhile. It's not something easily replaceable.
 

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The exciting part is we might actually find out after this year because according to Russell's tweets negotiation must not be going well, which means he could be playing somewhere else in 2016. Franchise or not some team will go and get him. The FO has franchised only one player in the Pete Carroll era and that was Kicker Olindo Mare. But this FO is classy enough that I believe they will let him test free agency rather than try and hold him hostage.

As I've stated before I would love for Wilson to go to a pass heavy team, staying here he is overshadowed by Lynch and the defense. Wilson will not get the recognition he truly deserve unless he goes to a team and turn them around.

If Wilson plays out of his mind this coming up season don't be mad if he still decides to play somewhere else.
 

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Rocket's post about the Wilson tweets from earlier have me a bit concerned.

I've never really seen anger coming from RW on social media, but that's what that looked like to me. Then again, it could be nothing. That's why I hate the vagueness of Twitter.

BUT... Is it possible that PC/JS have drawn a line in the sand? Could it be that they have a maximum number of years/salary in place and have already made it clear that they will not move off of that? And those numbers are not even in RW's ballpark?

PC/JS will not let what they've built be undone by one contract. If Russ demands say, 23-26M per year, might it be that he has already been told that that's a complete nonstarter?
 

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theincrediblesok":1picuq01 said:
The exciting part is we might actually find out after this year because according to Russell's tweets negotiation must not be going well, which means he could be playing somewhere else in 2016. Franchise or not some team will go and get him. The FO has franchised only one player in the Pete Carroll era and that was Kicker Olindo Mare. But this FO is classy enough that I believe they will let him test free agency rather than try and hold him hostage.

As I've stated before I would love for Wilson to go to a pass heavy team, staying here he is overshadowed by Lynch and the defense. Wilson will not get the recognition he truly deserve unless he goes to a team and turn them around.

If Wilson plays out of his mind this coming up season don't be mad if he still decides to play somewhere else.
I somehow doubt that Wilson would tear it up on most pass happy team. I think he needs the Seahawks just as much as we need him. Wilson is a very unique QB, there isn't one like him in the NFL, and there hasn't been one quite like him for at least 20 or more years. His style, and his attributes are unconventional in every sense of the word. Because of these reasons I do not see him being successful in most offensive systems in the NFL.

That is what makes Wilson so hard to evaluate, there is nobody like him. We can say he would succeed in a system where he gets the reps, but we don't really know if he can. Yes, he has had games where he has had a good number of attempts and has played well, BUT that doesn't tell us what we need to know. Doing it twice a year, and doing it 13 or more times is an entirely different ball game. It takes an entirely different skill-set to accomplish that.

The first thing that I would be concerned about with increased reps is durability. Wilson is smart about sliding, and avoiding would-be tacklers -- but I have noticed that he tends to take more big hits and chances when he gets a lot of reps, and it is up to him to produce. This concerns me greatly, especially since Wilson relies heavily on his scrambling drills. I think it is something that the F.O needs to take into consideration as well in these negotiations. I definitely want to see a good injury clause in that contract.

The second issue that I have is with Wilson's skill-set. As Wilson stands he is limited as a passer. He doesn't seem to have a good grasp on timing routes, especially on shorter, and intermediate routes. This is an integral part of the passing game that Wilson lacks. I'm not confident that Wilson could execute the Patriots game plan against the Seahawks, if he was on the Patriots. Coincidentally his short game is also lacking in accuracy, and ball placement. I'm not impressed with his tape in this aspect. It contains a lot of gaffs, missed opportunities, and turnovers.

Wilson also does not recognize the blitz well enough. This is something that Gruden knocked him on, and I think he was really on point with this observation when Wilson was coming out of college. Coincidentally I haven't seen much improvement in this area. He needs to learn how to react like Brady, and Manning in this situation. If they see an unfavorable situation they will change the play, and play smart situational football. I don't see this from Wilson. To be fair, Carroll, and Bevell's scheme may be hindering his growth in this regard.

Now, that being said Wilson is not a bad QB, and he does many things well. I think he is one of the best deep ball quarterbacks in the NFL. His mobility buys time for his guys to get open, and he can throw a scary accurate ball downfield. Wilson is also a very savvy player, and he's smart with the ball -- almost to his detriment (sometimes ya gotta take those chances). He doesn't make the dumb mistakes very often that have you shaking your head and he's a big playmaker. Wilson also is a huge boost to the running game. Teams don't know when he is going to take off, and it causes that momentary hesitation that allows Lynch to break off for big gains. Defensive ends also cannot get too aggressive or else Wilson will take off for a free 10 yard gain.

Wilson is a perfect fit for Seattle's style of play. He doesn't mess up, he's a big playmaker, and he comes up big most of the time when we need him. That being said, I do not know if he could survive in most offensive systems in the league the way he is now. He lacks some fundamental skills as a passer that he hasn't developed. He is still very much so a work in progress. In my mind if you pay a guy 20+ million a year they better be able to carry the team. I do not see that from Wilson.
 

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Hawkpower":fajrlz2r said:
The FO's job is to put teams on the field that can get to a Super Bowl.

They have done that in back to back years.

To say the jury is out just because they havent signed your favorite player YET is beyond absurd.

The jury is out on if they can keep the pieces that got us there together. This include son offense of which the jury is out. As has been pointed out they have never had to deal with this situation with a franchise QB. So the jury is still out. We will see.[/quote]




If you want to argue that the FO needs to prove they can keep an elite team together over a long haul, fine I guess.

That wasn't your original comment. You keep adding qualifiers, likely because you realized how ridiculous it sounded to type the words "jury is still out" on what is widely regarded one of the best FO's in football.[/quote]

NO my original statement was the jury is still out on the FO. I never put an qualifiers on it, or parameters. So there is no changing or adding just clarifying since you needed it. You kept saying the jury was not out on them because we went to 2 SBs. I kept making it clear the jury6 is out till we see what happens with Wilson. Now lets see we are an Elite team and Wilson is on it, so therefore the jury is out on them keeping it. Not my fault you could not put 2 and 2 together.[/quote]




And your original statement was wrong.

Our FO is considered one of the best in the league, so no the jury is not out on it.

When you realized how ridiculous that sounded, THEN you added qualifiers, like "well the jury is out on their ability to keep an elite offensive player not named Marshawn Lynch when the wind is blowing 15 mph or more from the east and Pete is wearing green!!........:)

A much simpler solution would have been to type "my bad, I typed something ludicrous" 15 posts ago, but you can continue if you like!![/quote]

Hmm and yet a lot of experts are saying they have never had to deal with this situation before so the jury is out on them. Hmm yeah know sorry the jury is out on them unless of course this FO has dealt with another franchise QBs contract I do not know about. Which they have not so jurys out. FYI it has nothing to do with if they resign him or not but how they handle it. IF they make a low ball offer and he leaves and we do not do well, the screwed up. IF they make a fair offer and he leaves then they did not, If they make a fair offer and he stays again they did not. So sorry weather they sign my favorite player or not is not the issue it is how they handle it and the end results in a situation they have never been in so jurys out.
 

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Hawkpower":em3f9j1c said:
Wilson might of had his 3rd ring if this ELITE defense could close the deal in our last 2 playoff losses against the Falcons and Pats


Indeed.

Our league leading, historic defense is sure holding RW back.

;)[/quote][/quote]

No not holding him back but they have contributed to some losses that should not have been.[/quote]






And our offense, including our QB, have contributed to some losses that should not have been.

We have the best defense in the league, seriously. When the RW worship causes one to spit angrily at the Front office, Marshawn and now a historic defense, it may be time take a step back..... 8)[/quote]


except as you and other keep saying this team is built around the defense and the run game. you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You and others want to give most of the credit for this team to the defense, but then try to deflect blame when they screw up. Your whole reaction is pathetic, we have a historic defense so they cannot be blamed for anything. Pathetic. We have a great FO so they cannot be blamed,. We have a great RB so he cannot be blamed. Then there is Wilson we can blame him, because this team is built on defense and running the ball. Pathetic. At least I acknowledged in my breakdown of the 9 games the games were Wilson was at fault, PATHETIC that describes your position.
 

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Anthony!":2269lf58 said:
No one is disagreeing with him about the eliteness of Rodgers, just disagreeing with him that the rest of the offensive weapons are nothing without Rodgers.

Anthony, you'd probably have a lot more people listen to you if you didn't resort to hyperbole and overstatement (ends up closely akin to straight-up lies) about what other people are claiming. Nobody said they were "nothing" without Rodgers, only that he makes them better. Nearly every argument becomes a straw man that is so easy for you to destroy, but it only works if you put words in other poster's posts.

You have some good material and thoughts. The delivery... needs a lot of work.

And good luck in the future.
 

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chris98251":36q3sgiu said:
Anthony!":36q3sgiu said:
chris98251":36q3sgiu said:
Sorry the jury is still out when it comes to dealing with offensive FAs. They have done a great job of taking care of the defense, but out side of Lynch they have not had any other high caliber/franchise level talent to deal with till now, SO yes the jury is still out

Lynch, Rice, Graham, Robinson, Miller, none of those guys except Lynch count?


as usual people do not read my posts which of them is a high caliber Franchise level talent besides Lynch? Which is in the prime of their career? enough said

All of them made the Pro bowl, obviously you don't even know the players on this team well enough to have this argument, if you don't consider a pro bowler a franchise level player then I guess we need a bunch of 20 million dollar QB's to meet those expectations.

If a rebuttal doesn't fit the agenda your playing you dismiss it and make new rules.

We just got Graham and Lynch I already said please who me were the others made the pro bowl with the hawks? Oh wait they didn't they made it on other teams, in other systems before the Hawks. My rules have stayed the same you just cannot seem to play by them.
 

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chris98251":3rt1e2zh said:
Just to play the devil here.

This is what have you done for me lately league. What was Russell's last pass, he is a 3rd round pick that made good and could be argued the system he is in makes his percentage elevated because it dictates safe plays, his yardage and attempts isn't up where the elite QB's are. He is supported by the best back in the league, he has the best defense in the league so isn't asked to carry a team. He has fundamental flaws in his game and needs to see the field better and hit his secondary receivers and learn to throw them open.

What have you done for me lately well you historic defense gave up a 10 point lead with under 10 minutes in the game. HMM As to the rest of your post well its wrong.
 

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Hawkpower":2jaedlsu said:
theincrediblesok":2jaedlsu said:
The FO is the best yes, but not when it comes to our offense. Lynch is the only free agent that actually plays up to his contract. The FO is great at getting deals with defensive players, but when it comes to offensive players we end up overpaying most of them. While the Defensive side they treated on a one year prove it deal, and it worked more often than not.

Sidney Rice - When healthy was great, but was only healthy one season and two season of at least 8 game shouldn't warrant a huge contract, already had history with injury.

Zach Miller - Paid pretty good just to block and sometimes catches the ball. I'm surprised the FO haven't used him more in the receiving game.

Matt Flynn - Couldn't beat a rookie in training camp, played great in two games for the Packers.

Percy Harvin - You know the deal

Graham will be the one that I think that will break that trend, since we never had a true #1 threat before.



So interesting how similar your views and style are to ANTHONY. Interesting...

As I said to you/Anthony earlier, Front offices are evaluated on success. Two straight superbowls should be enough to end this ridiculous commentary right now, but somehow it is fitting you/Anthony's RW agenda so you are keeping it on life support.

Oh and by the way, Lynch/Harvin/Graham not obtained via Free Agency.


YEs success and that includes keeping an elite team together, as of now that remains to be seen. As to your insulation, typical stuff you cannot argue well so accuse them of being someone else.
 

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Rob12":3bhnoj71 said:
Rocket's post about the Wilson tweets from earlier have me a bit concerned.

I've never really seen anger coming from RW on social media, but that's what that looked like to me. Then again, it could be nothing. That's why I hate the vagueness of Twitter.

BUT... Is it possible that PC/JS have drawn a line in the sand? Could it be that they have a maximum number of years/salary in place and have already made it clear that they will not move off of that? And those numbers are not even in RW's ballpark?

PC/JS will not let what they've built be undone by one contract. If Russ demands say, 23-26M per year, might it be that he has already been told that that's a complete nonstarter?


Could be it also could be he wants 6 years 120 which is only 20 mil a year like they are offering but the FO only wants 4 years, like all the other deals. We will see, but right now none of this has surprised me. FYI if they do not sign Wilson and the teams doe snot do well they will have undone their team by not signing him. Of course if they do not and they do well then they have proved their point. Its a gamble and Wilson wins no matter what, the only possible losers are the FO and us.
 

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Ad Hawk":36abed1i said:
Anthony!":36abed1i said:
No one is disagreeing with him about the eliteness of Rodgers, just disagreeing with him that the rest of the offensive weapons are nothing without Rodgers.

Anthony, you'd probably have a lot more people listen to you if you didn't resort to hyperbole and overstatement (ends up closely akin to straight-up lies) about what other people are claiming. Nobody said they were "nothing" without Rodgers, only that he makes them better. Nearly every argument becomes a straw man that is so easy for you to destroy, but it only works if you put words in other poster's posts.

You have some good material and thoughts. The delivery... needs a lot of work.

And good luck in the future.


IF you reread the entire thread as it relates to this topic he tore down every offensive weapon saying they were avg or less without Rodgers, He even dared me to find one of them who had a great game without Rodgers. Further I agreed with him that Rodgers makes other better but I said a lot of the others were still very very good and he proceeded to come up with an argument saying they were not. Like I said reread the thread and what he wrote.
 
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