Niners Coaching Situation?

[seahawk12thman]

Bottom line Harbaugh should stay. To my knowledge, even though they are having a disappointing year, I don't think he should go. He hasn't lost the locker room and that to me is the biggest litmus test. His former players speak highly of him and he is a winner.

 

[Popeyejones]

Bottom line Harbaugh should stay. To my knowledge, even though they are having a disappointing year, I don't think he should go. He hasn't lost the locker room and that to me is the biggest litmus test. His former players speak highly of him and he is a winner.

FWIW I think the team would have a better chance of maintaining its success if he were retained, but I just don't see it happening for two reasons: 1) he's already turned down multiple offers for extensions, and 2) as it is with the 9ers as it was with Stanford and USD, he creates organizational strife because he thrives on conflict and repeatedly creates where it doesn't and need not exist. If he maintains his success I can see him becoming a Parcells short-term "fixer" type, but as the good 9ers reporters have been floating for a couple years now, he's just not the type of guy who is likely to ever have a long tenure within one organization. It's a really high-risk game he plays, because if he's ever not successful, he courts all the questions of if his presence is worth it or not.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

In other words, it's really about fun so why not be more friendly, guys?

I think we can look to the world of sports for our answer: the competition itself is what's fun, particularly so because it's competition without real stakes (e.g. why watching a football game, playing pick-up basketball, or arguing on the Internet is fun, but participating in a war or a court case isn't).

TBF though, I do think the the present back-and-forth is a MUCH more cynical form of entertainment that almost everyone engages in from time to time (e.g. scouring the Webzone to bring back and cackle at the dumbest posts, feeding all varieties of naive trolls -- all variations on the batting around of a dead mouse as a form of sport, really).

Nicely put. I suppose we're looking for a different payoff. I want Marvin and seahawk to reach some sort of conclusion about the 9ers FO and ownership to see if there's anything to learn from it or inspire any further curiosity on my part but payoff for the kind of entertainment you're describing comes simply from witnessing the process of the escalating breakdown in communication.

 

[Marvin49]

Bottom line Harbaugh should stay. To my knowledge, even though they are having a disappointing year, I don't think he should go. He hasn't lost the locker room and that to me is the biggest litmus test. His former players speak highly of him and he is a winner.

Honestly, I can't disagree with that, but I think him leaving really has more to do with him than the 49ers. He's been offered extensions and he's turned them down.

I'd love him to stay, but I think a divorce is coming. He might surprise us all though and sign an extension...just because he tends to do the unexpected thing.

I don't think what's happened this year (on the field anyway) has anything to do with his status with the team.

We''ll probably know in early Jan.

 

[Marvin49]

In other words, it's really about fun so why not be more friendly, guys?

I think we can look to the world of sports for our answer: the competition itself is what's fun, particularly so because it's competition without real stakes (e.g. why watching a football game, playing pick-up basketball, or arguing on the Internet is fun, but participating in a war or a court case isn't).

TBF though, I do think the the present back-and-forth is a MUCH more cynical form of entertainment that almost everyone engages in from time to time (e.g. scouring the Webzone to bring back and cackle at the dumbest posts, feeding all varieties of naive trolls -- all variations on the batting around of a dead mouse as a form of sport, really).

Nicely put. I suppose we're looking for a different payoff. I want Marvin and seahawk to reach some sort of conclusion about the 9ers FO and ownership to see if there's anything to learn from it or inspire any further curiosity on my part but payoff for the kind of entertainment you're describing comes simply from witnessing the process of the escalating breakdown in communication.

Nah...for me, its more just about the fact that he was wrong about something (York-DeBartolo relationship), I called him on it....and now its become a whole other thing. Nobody's backing down.

No biggy. Its just sparring.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Doesn't fast Eddie D remind you of Joe Pesci's character in Casino minus the the physical ruthlessness?

:lol: :

Slick Eddie was more of the My Cousin Vinny type, IMO.

FWIW I think for many what has been lost to memory is the crime Eddie was actually charged with: failing to report a felony.

Because the NFL suspended him for one year it gets remembered as a bribery case, but from the beginning it was always an extortion case (the failure to report a felony charge against him was just leverage to secure his cooperation in the extortion case against Ed Edwards; one of seventeen extortion charges he was convicted of).

People also oddly remember Debartolo getting suspended by the NFL for a year as the NFL forcing him to let go of the team, which wasn't the case either. His sister got the team when the family's assets were split.

Do you ever get dizzy with all of the "spinning" you do?
When Bill O'reilly retires you or Melvin should put if for his "spin zone"' gig.
You can even use your work here for your résumé.
Probably pays better than the free work you are putting in for SC.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

What you're doing, Hernia, is actually kind of brilliant. Calling Marvin a biased time-waster while refusing to spell his name correctly accomplishes two things. First, for someone like yourself who really gets into the "us vs. them" mentality that our sport is largely based upon, this satisfies whatever that little brain trigger is that makes us feel good for doing something seemingly on the behalf of "us".

Second, your insults aren't so effective that they'll lead to Marvin spending the free moments he regularly spends here elsewhere. This is because calling another person biased or attempting to explain how they're succumbing to this logical fallacy or that is a largely ineffective insult. This is because we're all biased and we all regularly use fallacious logic. The only variance in people is in degree. This prompts the thought of "Well, I must be less biased and less fallacious than him" but biases, being the slippery thing that they are, aren't that simple. Thinking of oneself as less biased actually opens one up to more biases like restraint bias. Calling someone biased is about as effective as calling out someone for breathing air (although calling out someone for that may be better at times because it doesn't undermine our own thinking).

Therefore, Sports Hernia, in being the consummate tribesman that you've been, you've managed to find a way to experience the joy of toying with our resident 9er fan without risking any future joy from future meddling by being so effective in your insults that you drive Marvin away. In that regard, you're brilliant and your trolling has been both misunderstood and underrated for far too long.

 

[volsunghawk]

What you're doing, Hernia, is actually kind of brilliant. Calling Marvin a biased time-waster while refusing to spell his name correctly accomplishes two things. First, for someone like yourself who really gets into the "us vs. them" mentality that our sport is largely based upon, this satisfies whatever that little brain trigger is that makes us feel good for doing something seemingly on the behalf of "us".

Second, your insults aren't so effective that they'll lead to Marvin spending the free moments he regularly spends here elsewhere. This is because calling another person biased or attempting to explain how they're succumbing to this logical fallacy or that is a largely ineffective insult. This is because we're all biased and we all regularly use fallacious logic. The only variance in people is in degree. This prompts the thought of "Well, I must be less biased and less fallacious than him" but biases, being the slippery thing that they are, aren't that simple. Thinking of oneself as less biased actually opens one up to more biases like restraint bias. Calling someone biased is about as effective as calling out someone for breathing air (although calling out someone for that may be better at times because it doesn't undermine our own thinking).

Therefore, Sports Hernia, in being the consummate tribesman that you've been, you've managed to find a way to experience the joy of toying with our resident 9er fan without risking any future joy from future meddling by being so effective in your insults that you drive Marvin away. In that regard, you're brilliant and your trolling has been both misunderstood and underrated for far too long.

:th2thumbs:

 

[Marvin49]

What you're doing, Hernia, is actually kind of brilliant. Calling Marvin a biased time-waster while refusing to spell his name correctly accomplishes two things. First, for someone like yourself who really gets into the "us vs. them" mentality that our sport is largely based upon, this satisfies whatever that little brain trigger is that makes us feel good for doing something seemingly on the behalf of "us".

Second, your insults aren't so effective that they'll lead to Marvin spending the free moments he regularly spends here elsewhere. This is because calling another person biased or attempting to explain how they're succumbing to this logical fallacy or that is a largely ineffective insult. This is because we're all biased and we all regularly use fallacious logic. The only variance in people is in degree. This prompts the thought of "Well, I must be less biased and less fallacious than him" but biases, being the slippery thing that they are, aren't that simple. Thinking of oneself as less biased actually opens one up to more biases like restraint bias. Calling someone biased is about as effective as calling out someone for breathing air (although calling out someone for that may be better at times because it doesn't undermine our own thinking).

Therefore, Sports Hernia, in being the consummate tribesman that you've been, you've managed to find a way to experience the joy of toying with our resident 9er fan without risking any future joy from future meddling by being so effective in your insults that you drive Marvin away. In that regard, you're brilliant and your trolling has been both misunderstood and underrated for far too long.

LOL.

Honestly though, you'll notice I don't respond to him at all. That's because I don't know what he said because I put him on ignore LONG ago.

 

[Popeyejones]

Doesn't fast Eddie D remind you of Joe Pesci's character in Casino minus the the physical ruthlessness?

:lol: :

Slick Eddie was more of the My Cousin Vinny type, IMO.

FWIW I think for many what has been lost to memory is the crime Eddie was actually charged with: failing to report a felony.

Because the NFL suspended him for one year it gets remembered as a bribery case, but from the beginning it was always an extortion case (the failure to report a felony charge against him was just leverage to secure his cooperation in the extortion case against Ed Edwards; one of seventeen extortion charges he was convicted of).

People also oddly remember Debartolo getting suspended by the NFL for a year as the NFL forcing him to let go of the team, which wasn't the case either. His sister got the team when the family's assets were split.

Do you ever get dizzy with all of the "spinning" you do?
When Bill O'reilly retires you or Melvin should put if for his "spin zone"' gig.
You can even use your work here for your résumé.
Probably pays better than the free work you are putting in for SC.

What's being spun? what did I say that isn't easily verifiable and factual?

Just ranting about me spinning without even countering a single thing in my post is a waste of time.


Ehh, I suppose the one piece of my post which you could have assumed relied on conjecture was that the charge Eddie faced (failure to report a felony) was being used as leverage to get him to cooperate in the extortion charge against Edwards, but the historical record on that is pretty clear, as testifying against Edwards was a condition of Debartolo's plea deal.

His head bowed and speaking in a subdued voice, San Francisco 49ers owner Eddie DeBartolo Jr. pleaded guilty in federal court yesterday to a felony charge of failing to report that Louisiana's former governor allegedly extorted $400,000 from him to win a casino license.

With the plea, DeBartolo avoided prison. But he agreed to pay $1 million in penalties, serve two years of probation and testify in future trials against ex-Governor Edwin Edwards and his son, Stephen, key targets in a federal probe into the state's gambling industry.

In testimony leading to DeBartolo's admission, FBI agent Jeffrey Santini described an alleged two- year courtship in which DeBartolo at first resisted but then finally agreed last year to pay Edwards the money -- in crisp $100 bills -- to help him win the final riverboat license to be awarded by the state's gaming commission.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/ ... 986872.php

 

[Sports Hernia]

What you're doing, Hernia, is actually kind of brilliant. Calling Marvin a biased time-waster while refusing to spell his name correctly accomplishes two things. First, for someone like yourself who really gets into the "us vs. them" mentality that our sport is largely based upon, this satisfies whatever that little brain trigger is that makes us feel good for doing something seemingly on the behalf of "us".

Second, your insults aren't so effective that they'll lead to Marvin spending the free moments he regularly spends here elsewhere. This is because calling another person biased or attempting to explain how they're succumbing to this logical fallacy or that is a largely ineffective insult. This is because we're all biased and we all regularly use fallacious logic. The only variance in people is in degree. This prompts the thought of "Well, I must be less biased and less fallacious than him" but biases, being the slippery thing that they are, aren't that simple. Thinking of oneself as less biased actually opens one up to more biases like restraint bias. Calling someone biased is about as effective as calling out someone for breathing air (although calling out someone for that may be better at times because it doesn't undermine our own thinking).

Therefore, Sports Hernia, in being the consummate tribesman that you've been, you've managed to find a way to experience the joy of toying with our resident 9er fan without risking any future joy from future meddling by being so effective in your insults that you drive Marvin away. In that regard, you're brilliant and your trolling has been both misunderstood and underrated for far too long.

Cool story bro...... I stopped reading after the first paragraph...... Maybe I have ADD, or your post was boring me.
No harm, no foul though broski!

 

[Sports Hernia]

Doesn't fast Eddie D remind you of Joe Pesci's character in Casino minus the the physical ruthlessness?

:lol: :

Slick Eddie was more of the My Cousin Vinny type, IMO.

FWIW I think for many what has been lost to memory is the crime Eddie was actually charged with: failing to report a felony.

Because the NFL suspended him for one year it gets remembered as a bribery case, but from the beginning it was always an extortion case (the failure to report a felony charge against him was just leverage to secure his cooperation in the extortion case against Ed Edwards; one of seventeen extortion charges he was convicted of).

People also oddly remember Debartolo getting suspended by the NFL for a year as the NFL forcing him to let go of the team, which wasn't the case either. His sister got the team when the family's assets were split.

Do you ever get dizzy with all of the "spinning" you do?
When Bill O'reilly retires you or Melvin should put if for his "spin zone"' gig.
You can even use your work here for your résumé.
Probably pays better than the free work you are putting in for SC.

What's being spun? what did I say that isn't easily verifiable and factual?

Just ranting about me spinning without even countering a single thing in my post is a waste of time.


Ehh, I suppose the one piece of my post which you could have assumed relied on conjecture was that the charge Eddie faced (failure to report a felony) was being used as leverage to get him to cooperate in the extortion charge against Edwards, but the historical record on that is pretty clear, as testifying against Edwards was a condition of Debartolo's plea deal.

His head bowed and speaking in a subdued voice, San Francisco 49ers owner Eddie DeBartolo Jr. pleaded guilty in federal court yesterday to a felony charge of failing to report that Louisiana's former governor allegedly extorted $400,000 from him to win a casino license.

With the plea, DeBartolo avoided prison. But he agreed to pay $1 million in penalties, serve two years of probation and testify in future trials against ex-Governor Edwin Edwards and his son, Stephen, key targets in a federal probe into the state's gambling industry.

In testimony leading to DeBartolo's admission, FBI agent Jeffrey Santini described an alleged two- year courtship in which DeBartolo at first resisted but then finally agreed last year to pay Edwards the money -- in crisp $100 bills -- to help him win the final riverboat license to be awarded by the state's gaming commission.

http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/ ... 986872.php

So in your eyes Fast Eddie is just a saintly fella that is just misunderstood and just got unlucky in the fact he was facing prison time for his actions? :roll: Got it.

 

[Popeyejones]

:lol: :roll:

You can do better.

 

[Sports Hernia]

:lol: :roll:

You can do better.

I'm sorry the truth hurts.

 

[Popeyejones]

...or maybe not.

Later, dude. :th2thumbs:

 

[kearly]

Erickson had experience in the NFL before going to SF, but when he was hired it was widely predicted that his tenure would be short lived and that the 49ers were only using him as a short term solution and future scapegoat. Which all proved to be 100% true.

This edit came in while I was writing my post, but uhhh, link? I don't remember there being a groundswell of excitement about the hire, but I don't remember this characterization of it at the time AT ALL.

Where did I say 'excitement'? It was the total opposite.

Everyone knew it was a lame duck hire. It was hardly a state secret. I doubt I could find anything from 11 years ago but I do remember a lot of local media saying that Erickson made a huge mistake leaving Oregon State for the 49ers and a lot of national media observing him to be a temp hire.

Erickson's predecessor, Mooch, was coming off a division winning 10-6 season. They won a crazy playoff game at home before getting crushed by the eventual world champs. They won the division, and won a playoff game. But Mooch was still fired anyway shortly thereafter because he didn't get along with his GM. Sound familiar?

Yes, I do think SF is in for a significant decline. Isn't that obvious? Who is your QB in 2016? Can the next coach match Harbaugh's brilliance? The 49ers look like an 8-8 team right now, and it won't get better any time soon with Harbaugh leaving.

I think Baalke is a pretty smart dude. I don't think he's a great GM, but he's crafty. I think he knows that the team is probably boned the next two seasons. I expect him to make a bandaid coaching hire while the team rebuilds, then go for a top shelf coach in 2016 or 2017. Anyway, that's just what I think. We've seen this script before.

 

[Popeyejones]

Erickson had experience in the NFL before going to SF, but when he was hired it was widely predicted that his tenure would be short lived and that the 49ers were only using him as a short term solution and future scapegoat. Which all proved to be 100% true.

This edit came in while I was writing my post, but uhhh, link? I don't remember there being a groundswell of excitement about the hire, but I don't remember this characterization of it at the time AT ALL.

Where did I say 'excitement'? It was the total opposite.

Oh, sorry if my post was unclear. We agree that there wasn't a ton of excitement about the hire, but I seriously don't remember anyone anywhere arguing that they were just hiring Erickson so that they could keep on losing and then use him as a scapegoat (let alone it being widely predicted).

 

[rideaducati]

The Giants were able to get a stadium...
Golden State Warriors arena is being build in SF
Yeah impossible.

BTW I believe the NFL is trying to move two teams to LA, pretty sure they are going to build a new stadium.... in California.

I hope my reply isn't confused for taking you seriously, but FWIW:

*AT&T Park exists because it was entirely privately financed. It sits on 12.5 acres.

*The Warriors new stadium, if it ends up happening which is still up in the air, is also entirely privately financed. If it does happen the entire mixed-use space is being fit in 12 acres.

Compare that to Levi's which is the first semi-publicly financed to be built in California in my lifetime, and the mixed-use space consists of 22 acres for the stadium, 48 acres for additional parking, and 256 acres for the mixed-use development.*

As for citing the NFL trying to move two teams to LA as evidence for your argument, there's a reason why the NFL hasn't had a team in the second largest media market in the U.S. for over twenty years. There's a reason why there's still not a team there.

And just to insulate against bloviating about the role public financing plays, don't forget that your billionaire owner bilked Seattle for 75% of the cost of his football palace. CenturyLink has become a pretty popular case-study in academic work arguing against the practice of publicly financing professional sports stadiums, and a case-study of rent-seeking** in the economics literature.



*and just to be clear, even on this board I've criticized the city of S.C. for publicly financing Levi's to draw the team there.

**from google: "rent-seeking is spending wealth on political lobbying to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating wealth."

At least Paul Allen paid SOME of his own money on the stadium. York didn't have any money to put into his.

 

[kearly]

Oh, sorry if my post was unclear. We agree that there wasn't a ton of excitement about the hire, but I seriously don't remember anyone anywhere arguing that they were just hiring Erickson so that they could keep on losing and then use him as a scapegoat (let alone it being widely predicted).

I do remember there being a lot of chatter at the time, probably from talking heads and radio. A lot of people were saying he was making a big mistake leaving Oregon State for a team that was likely about to decline and just using him.

(I edited the post above)

 

[Marvin49]

Oh, sorry if my post was unclear. We agree that there wasn't a ton of excitement about the hire, but I seriously don't remember anyone anywhere arguing that they were just hiring Erickson so that they could keep on losing and then use him as a scapegoat (let alone it being widely predicted).

I do remember there being a lot of chatter at the time, probably from talking heads and radio. A lot of people were saying he was making a big mistake leaving Oregon State for a team that was likely about to decline and just using him.

(I edited the post above)

My guess is it may have been much more talked about in those terms in Seattle than anywhere else simply because he'd coached professionally in Seattle already.