You guys crack me up

Sgt. Largent

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Hawker55":u9rnss9r said:
Sgt. Largent":u9rnss9r said:
Hawker55":u9rnss9r said:
Sgt. Largent":u9rnss9r said:
Penny's ran for over 100 yards twice in the past three weeks, and the O-line had their best pass pro game in almost two years against the Rams.

Stop making excuses for Russell. He has plenty of talent around him to not be playing as poorly as he's played the past year.

You don't want him gone, fine. I get it, it's a risky move.

But enough already with the excuses. He's stunk. Period.

Spinning my take a bit aren't ya? Who said he hasn't been stinking it up, matter of fact, I specifically said he has been? What I also said was, you can not move on or replace him at this stage in his career, to do so would be foolish.

Question everyone should be asking is why does he suck all of a sudden?

After 11 years he all of a sudden can't read defenses?

He lost his accuracy?

He lost his confidence?

He lost his leadership skills?

He lost his work ethic?

I think we know the answer to all of those questions. So what is the problem? What's different this season?

- Finger has contributed to accuracy issues

- work ethic still as great as always

That's where you lose me and others. Leadership? Ask former players like Bennett, Sherman and Baldwin about Russ's leadership. Not exactly ringing endorsements.

Confidence? Seems to be wavering to me. Russell isn't his usual confident self this year, especially since the injury.

Read defenses? Check out the All-22's. This year and last. Russell still is missing open receiver and relying on plays breaking down.

Problem now is he's injured, slower and appears shook. Voila, 5-10.

That 5-10 record has nothing to do with a historically bad defense first part of the year, continuous bad schemes, game plans and in game coaching all season, not to mention our garbage back up QB starting 3 games. Or is it all on Wilson ? Seems to me weren't we up at one point to the Bears 24 to 7 or something like that? I could be wrong, and didn't our kicker miss a 39 yed field goal?

Again , yes RW has been bad a lot of this season, but to put this record on him, or all the offensive problems on him is absurd. Not saying you are.

But to say he all of a sudden can no longer read defenses when he's been doing it at a pro level since Wisconsin, sorry you won't convince me of that. That just not something that goes away. You either can or you can't.

As far as his confidence, you could be right.


Last year's D was on a historically bad pace for half the season, and we still finished 12-4.

This year they're now ranked 8th in scoring D, and turned it around much quicker than last year.

So what's the one big difference between last year and this year, and why we're now 5-10 and not fighting for the division like we were last year?

Russell Carrington Wilson. That's it, and for the past 8-9 years that's always been the difference.

When Russell plays lights out, he makes up for the team's deficiencies. When he doesn't like this year? 5-10.

Can that change next year? I don't think so with Russ and Pete together again. Something needs to change.
 

keasley45

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It's funny. Pete and the team he built around Russ was so effective and he was so completely protective of the shortcomings in Russ's game that now that Russ nor Pete can cover his poor play, the fact that Russ was able to play 1 great qtr in 4 for the majority of his career, has now come back to paint this image that Russ was just overcoming his coach's futility. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If Russ can't dissect a defense quickly enough now, in year 10 to get the ball put on time, than what on earth makes anyone think he could do it when he had less experience early in his career.

If he's bailing the pocket now when he doesn't have to with 10 years under his belt, how much quicker do you think he was in doing that in his first few years.

Russ needs a running game like every qb does, yes. But Russ needs it SPECIFICALLY to allow him a gear to switch to to beat certain pressures and coverages that he can't on his own. That's a fact.

And the stinker of this whole thing is the fact that this offense has abandoned the run in games when it was the only thing reliably working. Why? So we could pass at a 2.5 to 1 clip. And why? ? Because it was the qb's choice to do so.

Has Russ had questionable protection in his career? Absolutley. But he's also wasted good protection (and that's been made obvious on analysis over two years now), and made adequate protection look bad.

He's also been responsible for some of the offenses struggles now for years and the offense has had to work around his weaknesses. The biggest and most glaring has been the fact that with the exception of 2020, Russ has never finished higher than 3rd from last in the league in throwing passes to the middle 1/3rd of the field.
And before the posts come about how Pete mandates that, Pete's own criticism and even plays like the 4th qtr, game losing sack against the Bears where he had Dallas blatantly open in front of him and he passed him up (and there are countless otherw) show that it's his preference to throw outside and up the sideline... often regardless of down, distance or circumstance. It's been Russ's MO from the beginning. It's what he does. ITS HIS CHOICE.

And honestly, I don't care if we go 8 and 9 next year, after Russ. The notion that PC can't win without Russ is about as stupid as the bief last year that Belichick was a product of Brady.

The dude doesn't care about this team anymore. He cares about himself. We don't need hero ball from the position. At this point, it would be nice to have someone that can convert a 3rd down with his arm reliably (and right now there are about 30 or so other qbs in the league that are better than he is), knows when to throw the ball out of bounds to preserve a win, and avoids drive killing and game losing sacks. Give me THAT guy and I will live with the rest. For two years now Russ has been incapable of doing the basics and covered it over with long balls to DK and Lockett. That's not an offense or effective qb play.
 
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Hawker55

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Sgt. Largent":1y2sob35 said:
Hawker55":1y2sob35 said:
Sgt. Largent":1y2sob35 said:
Hawker55":1y2sob35 said:
Spinning my take a bit aren't ya? Who said he hasn't been stinking it up, matter of fact, I specifically said he has been? What I also said was, you can not move on or replace him at this stage in his career, to do so would be foolish.

Question everyone should be asking is why does he suck all of a sudden?

After 11 years he all of a sudden can't read defenses?

He lost his accuracy?

He lost his confidence?

He lost his leadership skills?

He lost his work ethic?

I think we know the answer to all of those questions. So what is the problem? What's different this season?

- Finger has contributed to accuracy issues

- work ethic still as great as always

That's where you lose me and others. Leadership? Ask former players like Bennett, Sherman and Baldwin about Russ's leadership. Not exactly ringing endorsements.

Confidence? Seems to be wavering to me. Russell isn't his usual confident self this year, especially since the injury.

Read defenses? Check out the All-22's. This year and last. Russell still is missing open receiver and relying on plays breaking down.

Problem now is he's injured, slower and appears shook. Voila, 5-10.

That 5-10 record has nothing to do with a historically bad defense first part of the year, continuous bad schemes, game plans and in game coaching all season, not to mention our garbage back up QB starting 3 games. Or is it all on Wilson ? Seems to me weren't we up at one point to the Bears 24 to 7 or something like that? I could be wrong, and didn't our kicker miss a 39 yed field goal?

Again , yes RW has been bad a lot of this season, but to put this record on him, or all the offensive problems on him is absurd. Not saying you are.

But to say he all of a sudden can no longer read defenses when he's been doing it at a pro level since Wisconsin, sorry you won't convince me of that. That just not something that goes away. You either can or you can't.

As far as his confidence, you could be right.


Last year's D was on a historically bad pace for half the season, and we still finished 12-4.

This year they're now ranked 8th in scoring D, and turned it around much quicker than last year.

So what's the one big difference between last year and this year, and why we're now 5-10 and not fighting for the division like we were last year?

Russell Carrington Wilson. That's it, and for the past 8-9 years that's always been the difference.

When Russell plays lights out, he makes up for the team's deficiencies. When he doesn't like this year? 5-10.

Can that change next year? I don't think so with Russ and Pete together again. Something needs to change.

That's a fair post. Agree for the most part. The question still exists. How do you move on from him, who can fill his shoes behind this line and hold steady with this terrible coaching staff?
 

TwistedHusky

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That is the issue.

There is NO 'moving on' from Wilson.

It feels that is much of what this is.

People putting as much blame on Wilson as they can, so it does not sting as badly when/if he ends up leaving.

It is more likely that no QB, with the exception of Rodgers (not even sure about that one) could be effective with this FO and this roster.

But Wilson normally has been able to overcome things and win for us despite it, and now he isn't. Is that injury or just Wilson no longer investing the massive amount he used to in order to get us wins despite the challenges?

Wilson no longer has the magic he had. And he has significant flaws and bad habits, honed by years of emphasis and omission by his coaching staff. But we are going to find that going back to years of Seneca Wallace isn't going to fix things.

The only QB I can think of that we could both afford and can succeed with this line would be Minshew, and he doesn't have the ability to throw long like Carroll wants/needs to be effective.

This team is going to have to be ripped open & cleaned out. We will have to endure 2 or 3 win seasons and THEN get fortunate on a good draft pick to get a great QB again. The odds are not in our favor.

But it does not feel that keeping Wilson is our choice to make anyway, that depends on Wilson. And if you are Wilson, would you really sign up for more years of the same under Pete?
When you can go to another team and start winning immediately?
 

Elemas

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I think Russ can and will have an mvp season and another SuperBowl. Just not with Seattle. Chemistry is important…and it’s not there.

I don’t think it’s a definitive case of Russ vs Pete. It’s a combination of things. We’d surely suck for a few years (at best, maybe a lot more) but, sometimes you have to blow it all up and go back to the drawing board. But, if I had my choice, PC and JS would be unemployed.

P.S. for those saying our line is ok…are you nucking futz? Look where we’re ranked. Look at the top ranked lines and see how well their QBs and run games are clicking. Now THAT cracked me up hearing our line is ok. LMFAO. Pete’s a clown for saying the lines not the problem. He’s never invested in the O-line. There’s a certain center, or two, that we could’ve picked up but let’s grab Eskridge (maybe because the Rams are looking at him…haha…these fans man). I’d be tired of bailing his archaic, dilapidated ass out too if I were Russ. How many miracles can one man make?

The draft nonsense is pitiful. Where my LJ fans at? He’s got great hands huh? Idiots….

Same with the D. Read these forums and you’ll see comments like “…it could be elite”. What? For real? Last I checked, we were bottom dwellers. Offense doesn’t stay on the field long enough so the defense gets tired…mmmmkkk. How about we stop playing soft zones against 3rd string QBs and make some stops? Stops get you off the field.

Please Jody…please please please send Pete and JS packing.
 
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Hawker55

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TwistedHusky":1thmr3xz said:
That is the issue.

There is NO 'moving on' from Wilson.

It feels that is much of what this is.

People putting as much blame on Wilson as they can, so it does not sting as badly when/if he ends up leaving.

It is more likely that no QB, with the exception of Rodgers (not even sure about that one) could be effective with this FO and this roster.

But Wilson normally has been able to overcome things and win for us despite it, and now he isn't. Is that injury or just Wilson no longer investing the massive amount he used to in order to get us wins despite the challenges?

Wilson no longer has the magic he had. And he has significant flaws and bad habits, honed by years of emphasis and omission by his coaching staff. But we are going to find that going back to years of Seneca Wallace isn't going to fix things.

The only QB I can think of that we could both afford and can succeed with this line would be Minshew, and he doesn't have the ability to throw long like Carroll wants/needs to be effective.

This team is going to have to be ripped open & cleaned out. We will have to endure 2 or 3 win seasons and THEN get fortunate on a good draft pick to get a great QB again. The odds are not in our favor.

But it does not feel that keeping Wilson is our choice to make anyway, that depends on Wilson. And if you are Wilson, would you really sign up for more years of the same under Pete?
When you can go to another team and start winning immediately?

You need a qb who is slippery, that can scramble and make people miss, all the while throwing accurately and far. You say Minshew can do all that? I don't know about that, not on RWs level when he's on.

Maybe Murray, or Lamar. Perhaps Mahomes. But none of them are anymore elusive than Wilson.

And I don't see how anyone can say Wilson has lost his magic. How do you know this? After one bad season, that's it? The magic is just gone? His abilities are just gone when he's supposed to be in the prime of his career? Sorry I'm not buyin it. Not saying you're wrong, that's just a tough pill for me to swallow.

It'd have to be one of the biggest falls from grace in NFL history. Last year's early front runner for MVP to this year lost his magic?
 

onepicknick1

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Sgt. Largent":2jntmkl9 said:
- Russell Wilson is being paid like a top 5 elite QB, he is not playing like one. If you're being honest with yourself, he hasn't played like an elite QB for almost a full year now.

- Three coordinators in four years. Maybe it's not the coordinator, maybe it's the QB.

- This team is not sniffing the playoffs, let alone the SB with more years of the Pete and Russ show.

- Russell's been 90% healthy now for almost a month, and we've still lost to bad teams and squandered an opportunity to get back into the playoff hunt and show ownership that this team is worth keeping together.

It's not.


SNAP you hit that right on the nose. Need to gut the whole team get as many picks from Bobby, Russ and hopefully a new Coach who can make some decent Draft picks start out young and develop young player's someone who has an Ideal of what a good line is.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Hawker55":qu7m7eys said:
Sgt. Largent":qu7m7eys said:
Hawker55":qu7m7eys said:
Sgt. Largent":qu7m7eys said:
- Finger has contributed to accuracy issues

- work ethic still as great as always

That's where you lose me and others. Leadership? Ask former players like Bennett, Sherman and Baldwin about Russ's leadership. Not exactly ringing endorsements.

Confidence? Seems to be wavering to me. Russell isn't his usual confident self this year, especially since the injury.

Read defenses? Check out the All-22's. This year and last. Russell still is missing open receiver and relying on plays breaking down.

Problem now is he's injured, slower and appears shook. Voila, 5-10.

That 5-10 record has nothing to do with a historically bad defense first part of the year, continuous bad schemes, game plans and in game coaching all season, not to mention our garbage back up QB starting 3 games. Or is it all on Wilson ? Seems to me weren't we up at one point to the Bears 24 to 7 or something like that? I could be wrong, and didn't our kicker miss a 39 yed field goal?

Again , yes RW has been bad a lot of this season, but to put this record on him, or all the offensive problems on him is absurd. Not saying you are.

But to say he all of a sudden can no longer read defenses when he's been doing it at a pro level since Wisconsin, sorry you won't convince me of that. That just not something that goes away. You either can or you can't.

As far as his confidence, you could be right.


Last year's D was on a historically bad pace for half the season, and we still finished 12-4.

This year they're now ranked 8th in scoring D, and turned it around much quicker than last year.

So what's the one big difference between last year and this year, and why we're now 5-10 and not fighting for the division like we were last year?

Russell Carrington Wilson. That's it, and for the past 8-9 years that's always been the difference.

When Russell plays lights out, he makes up for the team's deficiencies. When he doesn't like this year? 5-10.

Can that change next year? I don't think so with Russ and Pete together again. Something needs to change.

That's a fair post. Agree for the most part. The question still exists. How do you move on from him, who can fill his shoes behind this line and hold steady with this terrible coaching staff?

That's the million dollar question isn't it.

I don't trust Pete with draft picks or the rebuild if we trade Russell. So if you're asking me best case scenario?

Keep Russ for one more year, but with a new coaching staff and coordinator. That way you know if it's the coach, or if it's Russell.

Worst case scenario? Jody does nothing and we have to watch what we've watched this year for another 2-3 years before she finally has the guts to blow it up.
 

thisguyissogood

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Russell Wilson isn't going anywhere .. and Pete isn't either .. No matter ...some "fans" still want blood .. Pete has to pay .. and Wilson is a bum ... WTF? This season has made change inevitable but It won't be Pete or Russ .. that said, many Longtime assistants are all on notice and Newbie Shane Waldron is already out the door IMO He can't scheme his way out of a wet paper bag .. Several Vet players will be shone the door .. Our field goal/extra point kicker LOST 5 games alone ... Think about that for a moment .. as bad as our season has been .. our won loss record should be 10/8 at the worst .. Metcalf needs a tutor .. he get's schemed out of key ballgames too easily .. Offensive Coordinator needs to know how to implement a proper screen game .. throwing a screen pass straight across the line of scrimmage for a 1 yard gain is a joke .. and lastly .. Wilson needs to become a running threat again .. how many times this year did we see Wilson running out the threat on a dive play up the middle completely uncovered? He used to completely bamboozle defenses now they ignore him .. Expect changes .. they just won't be trading Russ or retiring Pete ..
 

HawkOG70’

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Bring in who? Maybe Pickett who knows but imagine the draft capital and free'd up cash money to spend on free agency. With Penny and Deejay balling I guarantee we will pound the shit out of the rock next year and succeed with another game manager at QB backed up by a great O line and a nasty ass defense. Stop hugging Wilson's balls guy he's looked awful for many games and years now. What we need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox football to cure this slump. Wilson's trade value has increased due to many teams in need of an expensive aging quarterback with a bum finger. It is what it is either get on board or hop off the 2012 wagon guy.
 

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What we don't need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox.

Is that what you would suggest for Green Bay? Or Tampa Bay? Or Kansas City or Buffalo?

That's the recipe for a 20 year playoff drought.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Palmegranite":4k0qgphz said:
What we don't need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox.

Is that what you would suggest for Green Bay? Or Tampa Bay? Or Kansas City or Buffalo?

That's the recipe for a 20 year playoff drought.

I'm just fine with a ball control pound the rock offense. IMO you have to have a good run game to win close games, and in the playoffs.

But then why spend 35M a year on your QB who's soaking up 20% of your cap space? Go get a cheaper veteran QB that'll free up another 5-10M per year for your run game and O-line.
 

OrangeGravy

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Palmegranite":1dho2wgj said:
What we don't need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox.

Is that what you would suggest for Green Bay? Or Tampa Bay? Or Kansas City or Buffalo?

That's the recipe for a 20 year playoff drought.
They don't need to. They have QBs that can consistently move the ball through the air. They only need the run as a change up
 

DarkVictory23

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Hawker55":2gebwmio said:
RW needs to go? And bring in who? Name me one QB in the league that could function behind this turnstile of an O line and under our coaching and succeed as much as Wilson has. Just one, I'll wait...

Do you realize how hard it is to find a franchise qb, hell it took us from 1976 to 2011. That's 35 years. And please don't say Hassleback. He was good , but he was no Aaron Roger's or Tom Brady.

I don't think some of you are thinking this through. Wilson is not broken, nor is he bad. First off he's still hurt, and he is playing in a system that is not conducive to his style of play, and does not put him in positions to succeed near often enough.

Why can't this coaching staff understand that 3rd and longs are a death sentence for this offense? Why can't they develope a real screen game? Why can't they stop running on 2nd and longs? At least they didn't call a bubble screen, or did they?

I mean the list goes on. I said it before and I'll say it again, put Wilson in good system behind a real O line, then will you see what he's capable of. To be honest I feel sorry for him wasting his career under Pete. Ya he's rich but he wants that legacy tag, and he's not going to get it under Carroll.
Ok, well, one, anyone who feels the need to disrespect by boy Hasselbeck already has an uphill battle in convincing me of anything, especially when your attempt to dismiss him is 'he was no Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady' which can be equally applied to Russ. (And I HATE Aaron Rodgers).


Additionally, I am open to the idea of keeping Russ but anyone who falls back on the 'offensive line' or 'the system fails him' arguments just makes me think you don't have any idea what the actual problem with Russ is.

The last three games we've seen the offensive line give Russ time to take NAPS behind the line and he continued to take some of the worst sacks I've ever seen. So that's old.

As for the system? We've slowly built the entire offense around Russ and that's been the problem. Why (until this year) were we always running even the closest third and short out of a shotgun? That was for Russ!

The issues are as simple as they are difficult to fix: Russ's legs don't mean much anymore. He's been reluctant to read 'keep' for like 5 years on read-option plays even when that's the clear read. In other words, he's not a threat as a read-option QB and his ability to use his legs during plays breaking down is clearly on the decline. Can he fix this with offseason training? Or is he permanently going to be a step slower than he thinks he is? Can he mentally adjust his play style to being a step slower and be more uptempo in his passing game?

Second, Russ has become too reliant on the deep bomb play, which has become a problem for two reasons. First, and this became evident last year, teams defense are adjusting to it and Russ is not reading it. A disguised Cover-2 is like Kryptonite to him and even in his good games he will have at least ONE play where he throws into a guy who's double covered while missing a clearly open dude for first down yardage. Second, his touch on his deep ball, traditionally one of his greatest assets, has been destroyed by his finger injury. Will he get it back in the offseason? Or did his ego cause him to come back too early and now he's going to have long term issues?

These questions I'm posing I don't pretend to know the answers to. Even Russ probably can't answer them all.

But pretending these issues don't exist and therefore require some level of hard thought by the Seahawks front office is just as ridiculous as those who 'crack you up'.
 
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Hawker55

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ArlosSpecial":2yekqhco said:
Bring in who? Maybe Pickett who knows but imagine the draft capital and free'd up cash money to spend on free agency. With Penny and Deejay balling I guarantee we will pound the $h!t out of the rock next year and succeed with another game manager at QB backed up by a great O line and a nasty ass defense. Stop hugging Wilson's balls guy he's looked awful for many games and years now. What we need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox football to cure this slump. Wilson's trade value has increased due to many teams in need of an expensive aging quarterback with a bum finger. It is what it is either get on board or hop off the 2012 wagon guy.

Oh FFS. Only way you're winning ground chuck style in today's league is if you have Derrick Henry or an Adrian Peterson in his prime. Which Dallas or Penny or Carson for that matter is nowhere near talent wise. And even those teams pass the ball a lot.

And where you gonna get those blue chip O Linemen from? The draft? So you're at least a year away with development and learning the play book, trade? who's trading away their star Lineman? So you're gonna maybe get pro bowl talent linemen (probably older like Duane Brown) if your lucky to block for second tier running backs, and that's the pur path back to the top? Not seeing it.
 

chris98251

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Hawker55":1rqkv3bg said:
ArlosSpecial":1rqkv3bg said:
Bring in who? Maybe Pickett who knows but imagine the draft capital and free'd up cash money to spend on free agency. With Penny and Deejay balling I guarantee we will pound the $h!t out of the rock next year and succeed with another game manager at QB backed up by a great O line and a nasty ass defense. Stop hugging Wilson's balls guy he's looked awful for many games and years now. What we need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox football to cure this slump. Wilson's trade value has increased due to many teams in need of an expensive aging quarterback with a bum finger. It is what it is either get on board or hop off the 2012 wagon guy.

Oh FFS. Only way you're winning ground chuck style in today's league is if you have Derrick Henry or an Adrian Peterson in his prime. Which Dallas or Penny or Carson for that matter is nowhere near talent wise. And even those teams pass the ball a lot.

And where you gonna get those blue chip O Linemen from? The draft? So you're at least a year away with development and learning the play book, trade? who's trading away their star Lineman? So you're gonna maybe get pro bowl talent linemen (probably older like Duane Brown) if your lucky to block for second tier running backs, and that's the pur path back to the top? Not seeing it.

So your answer is Hero ball with no O line and a QB that can't see or find the middle of the field and will want 350 million his next contract for 5 years.
 
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Hawker55

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DarkVictory23":2z8memof said:
Hawker55":2z8memof said:
RW needs to go? And bring in who? Name me one QB in the league that could function behind this turnstile of an O line and under our coaching and succeed as much as Wilson has. Just one, I'll wait...

Do you realize how hard it is to find a franchise qb, hell it took us from 1976 to 2011. That's 35 years. And please don't say Hassleback. He was good , but he was no Aaron Roger's or Tom Brady.

I don't think some of you are thinking this through. Wilson is not broken, nor is he bad. First off he's still hurt, and he is playing in a system that is not conducive to his style of play, and does not put him in positions to succeed near often enough.

Why can't this coaching staff understand that 3rd and longs are a death sentence for this offense? Why can't they develope a real screen game? Why can't they stop running on 2nd and longs? At least they didn't call a bubble screen, or did they?

I mean the list goes on. I said it before and I'll say it again, put Wilson in good system behind a real O line, then will you see what he's capable of. To be honest I feel sorry for him wasting his career under Pete. Ya he's rich but he wants that legacy tag, and he's not going to get it under Carroll.
Ok, well, one, anyone who feels the need to disrespect by boy Hasselbeck already has an uphill battle in convincing me of anything, especially when your attempt to dismiss him is 'he was no Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady' which can be equally applied to Russ. (And I HATE Aaron Rodgers).


Additionally, I am open to the idea of keeping Russ but anyone who falls back on the 'offensive line' or 'the system fails him' arguments just makes me think you don't have any idea what the actual problem with Russ is.

The last three games we've seen the offensive line give Russ time to take NAPS behind the line and he continued to take some of the worst sacks I've ever seen. So that's old.

As for the system? We've slowly built the entire offense around Russ and that's been the problem. Why (until this year) were we always running even the closest third and short out of a shotgun? That was for Russ!

The issues are as simple as they are difficult to fix: Russ's legs don't mean much anymore. He's been reluctant to read 'keep' for like 5 years on read-option plays even when that's the clear read. In other words, he's not a threat as a read-option QB and his ability to use his legs during plays breaking down is clearly on the decline. Can he fix this with offseason training? Or is he permanently going to be a step slower than he thinks he is? Can he mentally adjust his play style to being a step slower and be more uptempo in his passing game?

Second, Russ has become too reliant on the deep bomb play, which has become a problem for two reasons. First, and this became evident last year, teams defense are adjusting to it and Russ is not reading it. A disguised Cover-2 is like Kryptonite to him and even in his good games he will have at least ONE play where he throws into a guy who's double covered while missing a clearly open dude for first down yardage. Second, his touch on his deep ball, traditionally one of his greatest assets, has been destroyed by his finger injury. Will he get it back in the offseason? Or did his ego cause him to come back too early and now he's going to have long term issues?

These questions I'm posing I don't pretend to know the answers to. Even Russ probably can't answer them all.

But pretending these issues don't exist and therefore require some level of hard thought by the Seahawks front office is just as ridiculous as those who 'crack you up'.

Well I manged to get through the first 4 paragraphs then got sidetracked, so here it goes.

1. I didnt disrespect hasselback I said he was not a franchise QB. Nor is he on the same level as Wilson when he's on his game. I put Hasselback 2nd on the all time Seahawk QB list, I got mad love for him.

2. I'll put Wilson's first 10 year numbers up against Roger's and Brady and anyone else for that matter. Bet they're comparable. I would guess hasselbacks are not.

3. I said Wilson is struggling in this offense because it's not set up for his game. He is a pocket QB who can scramble when he needs to. Problem is he's had a shit O line his entire career, there is very rarely a pocket for him to set up in, so his first reaction is to back pedal and flee because well what would you do if 90% of the time you drop back , you're immediately running for your life? You'd be skiddish too.

4. Again I disagree, this system was not built around Russ if it had been, they would have invested in a real O line. Again he is not a scrambler, he is a pocket QB that can escape and scramble, Big difference...

5. I agree with the deep ball stuff. I would like to see him checking down more like every one else. Why he doesn't, I don't know.

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Just giving my two cents. I'm been a hawk fan from day one, and it kills me to see all this talent on the field, and we look like the Cleveland browns of old. And have been for what 7, 8 years now.

P.s. I bet you don't hate Roger's more than I do...
 
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Hawker55

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chris98251":3p2serc0 said:
Hawker55":3p2serc0 said:
ArlosSpecial":3p2serc0 said:
Bring in who? Maybe Pickett who knows but imagine the draft capital and free'd up cash money to spend on free agency. With Penny and Deejay balling I guarantee we will pound the $h!t out of the rock next year and succeed with another game manager at QB backed up by a great O line and a nasty ass defense. Stop hugging Wilson's balls guy he's looked awful for many games and years now. What we need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox football to cure this slump. Wilson's trade value has increased due to many teams in need of an expensive aging quarterback with a bum finger. It is what it is either get on board or hop off the 2012 wagon guy.

Oh FFS. Only way you're winning ground chuck style in today's league is if you have Derrick Henry or an Adrian Peterson in his prime. Which Dallas or Penny or Carson for that matter is nowhere near talent wise. And even those teams pass the ball a lot.

And where you gonna get those blue chip O Linemen from? The draft? So you're at least a year away with development and learning the play book, trade? who's trading away their star Lineman? So you're gonna maybe get pro bowl talent linemen (probably older like Duane Brown) if your lucky to block for second tier running backs, and that's the pur path back to the top? Not seeing it.

So your answer is Hero ball with no O line and a QB that can't see or find the middle of the field and will want 350 million his next contract for 5 years.

Funny wasn't hearing all these complaints when he signed the contract.. oh that's right he was still winning then.

To answer your question, absolutely not, balanced attack with check downs, and "REAL" screen plays, to backs and recievers, not this bubble screen shit. I'd like to see the offense mixing it up, you know keep the defense guessing.. more motion, and disguising there formations better. More complex route trees, and stop running the ball on 2nd and 13. How bout some more up tempo stuff, seems to work great.

But most importantly, I'd like to see this team win in the first 3 quarters and keep your foot on the gas when they're are up late? And stop with the soft play not to lose mentality I've seen for years now. How many times have we seen multiple late 3 and outs to finally score late, just to watch the other team March right down the field and score the go ahead TD. Like a re-ocurring nightmare every Sunday. Only difference now is, RW is not driving us down for the last second win.

Sound good?
 

chris98251

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Hawker55":2j5vxqp7 said:
chris98251":2j5vxqp7 said:
Hawker55":2j5vxqp7 said:
ArlosSpecial":2j5vxqp7 said:
Bring in who? Maybe Pickett who knows but imagine the draft capital and free'd up cash money to spend on free agency. With Penny and Deejay balling I guarantee we will pound the $h!t out of the rock next year and succeed with another game manager at QB backed up by a great O line and a nasty ass defense. Stop hugging Wilson's balls guy he's looked awful for many games and years now. What we need is some good ole fashion Ground Chuck Knox football to cure this slump. Wilson's trade value has increased due to many teams in need of an expensive aging quarterback with a bum finger. It is what it is either get on board or hop off the 2012 wagon guy.

Oh FFS. Only way you're winning ground chuck style in today's league is if you have Derrick Henry or an Adrian Peterson in his prime. Which Dallas or Penny or Carson for that matter is nowhere near talent wise. And even those teams pass the ball a lot.

And where you gonna get those blue chip O Linemen from? The draft? So you're at least a year away with development and learning the play book, trade? who's trading away their star Lineman? So you're gonna maybe get pro bowl talent linemen (probably older like Duane Brown) if your lucky to block for second tier running backs, and that's the pur path back to the top? Not seeing it.

So your answer is Hero ball with no O line and a QB that can't see or find the middle of the field and will want 350 million his next contract for 5 years.

Funny wasn't hearing all these complaints when he signed the contract.. oh that's right he was still winning then.

To answer your question, absolutely not, balanced attack with check downs, and "REAL" screen plays, to backs and recievers, not this bubble screen shit. I'd like to see the offense mixing it up, you know keep the defense guessing.. more motion, and disguising there formations better. More complex route trees, and stop running the ball on 2nd and 13. How bout some more up tempo stuff, seems to work great.

But most importantly, I'd like to see this team win in the first 3 quarters and keep your foot on the gas when they're are up late? And stop with the soft play not to lose mentality I've seen for years now. Hiw many times have we scored late, just to watch the other team March right down the field and score. Like a re-ocurring nightmare every Sunday. Only difference now is, RW is not driving us down for the last second win.

Sound good?

Yes but he has not done that ever, he had a defense that gave him the ball regularly, a decent O line for the first few years and a RB that was an enigma that got a ton of yards after first contact many times behind the line of scrimmage.

As those pieces moved on or retired, he has steadily lost more aspects of his game and became predictable to where a High School coach can draw up a defense against him now. We are paying him and others and will not be able to rebuild effectively without a reset in my mind as well as a change in approach.

One other thing, we have become a choir boy team, nobody fears our defense, there is no personality on offense and toughness exhibited, DK acts the part, but doesn't show the part. The past player that had that was Baldwin, Lynch and Baldwin together made the offense intimidating. Lockett is a tough kid but football toughness is what I am referring too, difference if you understand my meaning.
 
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