What do Pete/John see in Bevell to keep him?

[Cartire]

Oh, a gay joke. How original

Settle down. Im on your side here when it comes to Bevell. But its ok for riffing too. Sports = entertainment.

 

[ivotuk]

Some of the blame, er reason why Bevell is still here, etc....has been put on RW and various members of the offense for bad play execution and poor decision making. Essentially, that is what PC said was the case for the RW int. play in XLIX. We didn't execute the play well, and the other team made the play.

And the Patriots said that they made the play because they recognized it from film as one of the very few goalline concepts the Seahawks had been running all year. The Super Bowl is not the time to stay simple on offense, with Lynch, without any big receiving targets, against one of the league's defensive minds.

Bevell might simply be around because of

a) the desire for consistency, an important consideration at all times;

b) the right replacement hasn't come along;

c) because our personnel are still so underdeveloped that Pete just doesn't see Bevell as the main problem;

d) still scarred over the Jeremy Bates thing (fought with the other coaches, didn't use Lynch);

e) some of all the above.

I want to call attention to this. Brilliant post. The dialog surrounding anything on this board tends to a binary opposition: Bevell sucks vs. He's not the problem at all.

The truth could be somewhere in the middle, like Montana notes. It could be that Pete does have issues with Bevell, but there's a lot more to this situation than most people want to acknowledge.

Plus one to your plus one.

 

[ivotuk]

I heard Bevell gives a mean handjob.

A Manjob?

 

[AVL]

Offense is not Carroll's strong suite, but let's lay the blame on his assistants, who he fully supports.

I guess calling for Carroll's head does sound a little silly, but that's where the blame lies, not Bevell or Cable.

 

[drrew]

It's called accountability. On Wall Street if a CEO's employees underperform and the company misses its earnings estimates the CEO is held responsible. If this happens for multiple quarters activists investors, like Carl Icahn, will swoop in and make sure the CEO is bounced. Bevell is the CEO of our offense and he hasn't been good enough. Why should deeply invested fans be disparaged as emotional reactionaries when they call for a coaches dismissal when Harvard MBAs are lauded as reasonable for pursuing the same course in ousting CEOs?

So you're making the case to fire PC or JS? YOu have to pick one because Bevell certainly isn't remotely equivalent to the CEO of anything.

 

[LymonHawk]

I heard Bevell gives a mean handjob.

Shouldn't you post your sexual fantasies in the 'Shack? :mrgreen:

 

[hawk45]

I didn't have a huge problem with the playcalling in either game, really. The Rams game was about an overwhelming mismatch in the trenches and against GB OL penalties killed 2 drives in the first half that were looking pretty good. If we'd have had 2 scoring drives out of those there'd be less talk about an offense that didn't wake up until the second half.

The Jimmy thing...I *think*some of that is on Bevell. He's the OC, he needs to be instructing Russ to always check the matchup and go to Graham whenever it's single-coverage. If DB is instructing Russell in that manner, then okay he's clean. But after the Percy disaster, this fan was secretly worried all offseason by comments from Pete and Bevell that in attempting to fight the last war (one player distorting their offense), they'd commit the same sin this year in reverse by not recognize a player you can distort your offense for without trashing it.

That seemed a stupid mistake to make but here we are. They had better get this figured out.

Bevell is a guy who is okay most of the time with a disastrous tendency to get cute at the worst possible moment. I don't think he's a top-tier OC, and neither did Wisconsin and neither does the rest of the NFL. I don't think he's the worst in the NFL.

He does have a maddening tendency to reverse when he should use PA and when he should go empty, situationally, and that makes him look stupid.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I might be wrong but I don't remember the last time Carroll fired a coach (including USC days) other than OC Jeremy Bates.

Carroll's problem with assistant coaches, in fact, is bringing in new ones to replace the ones who are being cherry-picked out of his systems to be head coaches, because Carroll's teams are always so damn good.

 

[AgentDib]

Everybody saw the bit that 4 out of our first 5 scripted passes were intended for Graham? Seems like that may have been missed by a few here.

I would argue english's position further: the OC is a desirable scapegoat for most fan bases. 49er fans here will be happy to tell you that a key reason for the breakup with Harbaugh was that he wouldn't dump Roman, for some reason they couldn't possible fathom, when everybody on the planet could see what a terrible OC he was. Of course Roman only got a new job because other teams are also unfathomably stupid. That's a familiar narrative whichever fan base you are talking to.

Nice to see so many here defending Bevell and not giving in to the mob mentality. Bravo!

I think many, if not most, are fine with Bevell. It doesn't seem like that based on post quantity or post topics but there are a couple of reasons for that.

First, if you want to pin most of your troubles on Bevell then you have an easy thing to be loud about and you can be loud often. Every failed play is a new opportunity, and there is nothing easier in all of sports than critiquing a football call that didn't work. There's a reason they call it monday morning QBing and not thursday night batting coach second guessing. On the other hand, claiming that the result of a failed play was due to many complicated factors is quieter and will be drowned out even if you put as much work into as it Brock does on Chalk Talk. In the thread about his last video there were people banging the Bevell Stupid Play Call drum without a single reference to anything Brock had to say.

Second, there's little of interest to say in defending Bevell and not much reason to do so. Why should I care if somebody out there does not like one of our coaches? Second guessing NFL play calls is an intrinsic part of fandom, and that won't change when we do move on from Bevell. Unless you think Pete is going to hire or fire his staff based on .NET feedback then it's mostly a way for fans to vent when things are going poorly and not an interesting discussion point.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Because unlike a lot of our fans they don't single out a scapegoat who can be blamed every time anything goes wrong on offense.

Player doesn't execute? Bevell.

Player doesn't get enough catches? Bevell.

Lynch doesn't get a hole in the run game? Bevell.

Forget the HC, QB, WR, OL, TE, assistant HC. It's all Bevell all the time.

The obsession continues.

Maybe, just maybe, Carroll knows what he's doing?

While I understand your point, my intelligence allows me to understand that Bevell is not a quality offensive coordinator in any aspect.

Either he doesn't know how to call an entire game or he doesn't understand that doing something over and over again that doesn't work is silly.

 

[SomersetHawk]

A puppet?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I don't see an issue with Bevell.

Spent the last two weeks having to defend him this past week. The amount of blame attributed to him for the defense giving up 34 and 27 points in back to back weeks is insane.

This is a false defense of Bevell. The defense giving up 54 points in the last two weeks (one of them was a ST play) is an aberration. Bevell's spotty play-calling is not. It's been an issue ever since we got here.

 

[TwistedHusky]

At some point, you are responsible for your product.

Bevell's job is to make the offense effective and to score TDs.

The benchmark by which offenses are judged is the ability to score. The rest is besides the point.

Bevell also happens to coordinate an offense that is incredibly effective at running the ball. Now is that Lynch or Cable, or is it him? That is a matter of judgement and think thins some of the fires around him. The problem is that this year, they are not effective at running the ball, not effective at scoring and not effective at passing.

So by that measure, Bevell is lacking.

Now is that Lynch slowing or Wilson regressing? Since plenty of OCs do not have a RB or QB the caliber of either, and produce, that is not an adequate response.

And a lot of the problems that Bevell has are not new, we saw them when he was a Viking coach. He is just a weakness on a team that is shifting to win with offense instead of defense. That is a problem when your coordinator is your greatest issue.

And it is not entire odd for Carroll to keep a coach that isn't producing. Go back and look at his history in keeping ineffective coodinators during certain years at USC. Carroll is a loyal, optimistic guy - it makes complete sense he could build a relationship with a coach and then want to give him every chance to suceed, even when it is not reasonable to expect it.

 

[Ozzy]

Did Bevell get any interviews last off season? For the supporters can you find any evidence of people defending his decisions? I think some of the blame on Bevell is a little over the top but I still don't see anyone around the league saying he is a quality OC. If we are all wrong and just don't get it I feel like we would see people trying to convince us of that around the league.....yet we don't.

I probably said it above but I think his confidence is shot and he's in a slump. I hope a few easy games will get him back on track. He's over thinking things at the moment imo.

 

[hawk45]

At some point, you are responsible for your product.

Bevell's job is to make the offense effective and to score TDs.

The benchmark by which offenses are judged is the ability to score. The rest is besides the point.

Bevell also happens to coordinate an offense that is incredibly effective at running the ball. Now is that Lynch or Cable, or is it him? That is a matter of judgement and think thins some of the fires around him. The problem is that this year, they are not effective at running the ball, not effective at scoring and not effective at passing.

So by that measure, Bevell is lacking.

I am a longtime Bevell-hater, but lack of a rushing attack this year isn't on him. We have called Lynch's number in various situations, whether the defense was expecting it or not, and Lynch has been stoned.

vs the Rams, the OL couldn't pass or run block. So we didn't score much.

vs. the Packers, the OL couldn't run block, but could pass block, and the offense was actually able to make some hay. We had 2 good drives chewing up yardage derailed by stupid OL penalties in the first half, and in the second half (well, third quarter mainly) we did some damage offensively.

Bevell has been doing his typical WTF play action on 3rd and long, or empty on third and short, and we're not seeing enough Graham integration, but I would say that scoring anything in the first two games with zero rushing attack is more of a positive for Bevell and the offense than a negative.

 

[DavidSeven]

Did Bevell get any interviews last off season? For the supporters can you find any evidence of people defending his decisions?

He interviewed with the Bills and Raiders last offseason.

Brock Huard and Hugh Millen defend him all the time, and they are the only ones locally who study the tape every week. They put forth reasonable critiques as well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Did Bevell get any interviews last off season? For the supporters can you find any evidence of people defending his decisions? I think some of the blame on Bevell is a little over the top but I still don't see anyone around the league saying he is a quality OC. If we are all wrong and just don't get it I feel like we would see people trying to convince us of that around the league.....yet we don't.

I probably said it above but I think his confidence is shot and he's in a slump. I hope a few easy games will get him back on track. He's over thinking things at the moment imo.

Bevell got some interviews in 2013, that's how it works. Teams have success, and coordinators get interviewed.

Last season? What team in their right mind would interview Bevell after what happened in the SB, his fault or not? Just not good PR.

There are literally dozens of coordinators around the league that either never get a head coaching job, or fail miserably once they did and go back to coordinating. Doesn't mean they're a bad coordinator, so implying that he's a bad coordinator just because he hasn't gotten a HC gig yet isn't fair.

Bottom line for me with the Bevell hate is it's EXTREMELY naive and shortsighted to put all the blame on the offense on Bevell............when any football person will tell you if a play or scheme fails, there's plenty of blame to go around. Pete, Bevell, Russell, Cable, O-line, WR's, TE's. Group effort, win or lose.

I guess some of you just want to have a pissing match as to who's MOST responsible when we don't win.

 

[Ozzy]

Fair enough.

David what is your take? If I missed it just say so and I'll look back through the thread. Do you consider him an above average OC? A great OC? I'm not saying this in a sarcastic tone, curious. I think he's middle of the pack. He has done some really good things with the read option and helping with the running game but I really struggle with his initial game plans, predictability at times and calls in the red zone.

 

[Snakeeyes007]

I think the only reason DB is still here is loyalty. Pete's biggest strength (loyalty) is also his biggest weakness.

This. There seems to be a blind spot or an undying loyalty where it comes to Bevell. Interestingly, Pete didn't hesitate to replace his/our last OC.

 

[scutterhawk]

Because unlike a lot of our fans they don't single out a scapegoat who can be blamed every time anything goes wrong on offense.

Player doesn't execute? Bevell.

Player doesn't get enough catches? Bevell.

Lynch doesn't get a hole in the run game? Bevell.

Forget the HC, QB, WR, OL, TE, assistant HC. It's all Bevell all the time.

The obsession continues.

Maybe, just maybe, Carroll knows what he's doing?

Interesting.....So, you're saying that Bevell isn't responsible for ANY share of the mistakes, and that all the woes are on Poor Execution, HC, QB, WR, OL, TE, assistant HC?